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HARVARD  COLLEGE 
LIBRARY 


GIFT  OF  THE 

GOVERNMENT 
OF  THE  UNITED  STATES 


SUBVERSIVE  INRUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING, 
AND  BURNING 

PART  2 


DhPOSiltD  h-i  THE 
UNITED  STATES  GOVERNMENT 

JUN  2\  1968 

HEARINGS 

BEFORE  THE 

COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
HOUSE  OF  REPRESENTATIVES 

NINETIETH  CONGRESS 

FIRST  SESSION 


OCTOBER  31  AND  NOVEMBER  1,  1967 
(INCLUDING  INDEX) 


Printed  for  the  use  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities 


U.S.  GOVERNMENT  PRINTING  OFFICE 
88-083  0  WASHINGTON    :   1968 


For  sale  by  the  Sup  erintendent  of  Documents,  U.S.  Government  Printing  Ofllce 
Washington,  D.C.  20402  -  Price  65  cents 


COMMITTEE  ON  UN-AMERICAN  ACTIVITIES 
United  States  House  of  Representatives 

EDWIN  E.  WILLIS,  Louisiana,  Chairman 
WILLIAM  M.  TUCK,  Virginia  JOHN  M.  ASHBROOK,  Ohio 

JOE  R.  POOL,  Texas  DEL  CLAWSON,  California 

RICHARD  H.  ICHORD,  Missouri  RICHARD  L.  ROUDEBUSH,  Indiana 

JOHN  C.  CULVER,  Iowa  ALBERT  W.  WATSON,  South  Carolina 

Francis  J.  McNamara,  Director 
Chester  D.  Smith,  General  Counsel 
Alfred  M.  Nittle,  Counsel 

n 


CONTENTS 


October  31, 1967  :  Testimony  of—  Pag« 

Adolph  W.   Hart 929 

Francis  J.  McNamara  (statement) 964 

Afternoon  session : 

Herbert  Romerstein 978 

November  1, 1967  :  Testimony  of — 

Raymond    Wood 1031 

Herbert   Romerstein    (resumed) 1048 

Appendix — Progressive     Labor     Movement     Pre-Convention     Discussion 

Bulletin    #2 1099 

Index i 

m 


The  House  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  is  a  standing 
committee  of  the  House  of  Representatives,  constituted  as  such  by  the 
rules  of  the  House,  adopted  pursuant  to  Article  I,  section  5,  of  the 
Constitution  of  the  United  States  which  authorizes  the  House  to  de- 
termine the  rules  of  its  proceedings. 

RULES  ADOPTED  BY  THE  90TH  CONGRESS 

House  Resolution  7,  January  10,  1967 

RESOLUTION 

Resolved,  That  the  Rules  of  the  House  of  Representatives  of  the  Eighty-ninth 
Congress,  together  with  all  applicable  provisions  of  the  Legislative  Reorganiza- 
tion Act  of  1946,  as  amended,  be,  and  they  are  hereby,  adopted  as  the  Rules  of 
the  House  of  Representatives  of  the  Ninetieth  Congress  *  *  * 

*  *  *  -M  :i!  if  ip 

Rule  X 

STANDING   COMMITTEES 

1.  There  shall  be  elected  by  the  House,  at  the  commencement  of  each  Congress, 
******* 

(r)   Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  to  consist  of  nine  Members. 
******* 

Rule  XI 

POWERS   AND   DUTIES   OF   COMMITTEES 
******* 

18.  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities. 

(a)  Un-American  activities. 

(b)  The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities,  as  a  whole  or  by  subcommittee, 
is  authorized  to  make  from  time  to  time  investigations  of  (1)  the  extent,  charac- 
ter, and  objects  of  un-American  propaganda  activities  in  the  United  States,  (2) 
the  diffusion  within  the  United  States  of  subversive  and  un-American  propaganda 
that  is  instigated  from  foreign  countries  or  of  a  domestic  origin  and  attacks  the 
principle  of  the  form  of  government  as  guaranteed  by  our  Constitution,  and  (3) 
all  other  questions  in  relation  thereto  that  would  aid  Congress  in  any  necessary 
remedial  legislation. 

The  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  shall  report  to  the  House  (or  to  the 
Clerk  of  the  House  if  the  House  is  not  in  session )  the  results  of  any  such  investi- 
gation, together  with  such  recommendations  as  it  deems  advisable. 

For  the  purpose  of  any  such  investigation,  the  Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  or  any  subcommittee  thereof,  is  authorized  to  sit  and  act  at  such  times 
and  places  within  the  United  States,  whether  or  not  the  House  is  sitting,  has 
recessed,  or  has  adjourned,  to  hold  such  hearings,  to  require  the  attendance  of 
such  witnesses  and  the  production  of  such  books,  papers,  and  documents,  and  to 
take  such  testimony,  as  it  deems  necessary.  Subpenas  may  be  issued  under  the 
signature  of  the  chairman  of  the  committee  or  any  subcommittee,  or  by  any  mem- 
ber designated  by  any  such  chairman,  and  may  be  served  by  any  person  desig- 
nated by  any  such  chairman  or  member. 

******* 

27.  To  assist  the  House  in  appraising  the  administration  of  the  laws  and  in 
developing  such  amendments  or  related  legislation  as  it  may  deem  necessary, 
each  standing  committee  of  the  House  shall  exercise  continuous  watchfulness  of 
the  execution  by  the  administrative  agencies  concerned  of  any  laws,  the  subject 
matter  of  which  is  within  the  jurisdiction  of  such  committee ;  and,  for  that  pur- 
pose, shall  study  all  pertinent  reports  and  data  submitted  to  the  House  by  the 
agencies  in  the  executive  branch  of  the  Government. 

******* 

XV 


SYNOPSIS 

On  October  31  and  November  1,  1967,  a  subcommittee  of  the  Com- 
mittee on  Un-American  Activities  met  in  Room  311,  Cannon  House 
Office  Building.  Congressman  Edwin  E.  Willis,  chairman  of  the  full 
committee,  presided  over  the  subcommittee  composed  of  Representa- 
tives William  M.  Tuck,  Richard  H.  Ichord,  John  M.  Ashbrook,  Albert 
W.  Watson,  and  himself. 

The  hearing  concerned  the  Harlem,  New  York  City,  riot  of  July 
1964,  the  role  of  subversive  elements  in  the  riot,  their  agitational  activ- 
ities preceding  the  riot,  and  also  those  carried  out  from  the  time  the 
riot  ended  to  the  date  of  the  hearing. 

The  first  witness  was  Detective  Adolph  W.  Hart  of  the  New  York 
City  Police  Department. 

Detective  Hart  had  been  an  undercover  agent  for  the  police  de- 
partment in  the  Chinese  Communist-oriented  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment (PLM),  since  renamed  the  Progi-essive  Labor  Party  (PLP). 

Detective  Hart,  a  PLM  member  for  several  months  prior  to  the 
Harlem  riot  of  1964,  testified  that  he  had  attended  classes  in  Marxism 
organized  by  PLM  where  he  was  also  taught  various  urban  guerrilla 
warfare  tactics  and  methods  of  hampering  riot-control  forces.  He 
became  acquainted  with  William  Epton,  chairman  of  the  Harlem 
chapter  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  through  these  classes. 

The  witness  told  the  subcommittee  that  he  had  become  familiar  with 
a  printing  companj^,  Tri-Line  Offset  Co.  Inc.,  which  produced  the 
official  PLM  magazine,  Progressive  Ldbor^  and  other  "leftist  litera- 
ture," and  was  owned  by  three  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement.  He  stated  that  he  wrote  articles  for  Progressive  Labor  and 
for  the  PLM  newspaper,  Cludlenge. 

Mr.  Hart  identified  various  members  of  the  Harlem  Club  of  PLM 
and  gave  a  chronological  rundown  of  PLM  meetings  and  agitational 
activities — including  its  formation  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council — 
leading  to  the  1964  Harlem  riot. 

On  the  day  the  riot  started,  July  18,  1964,  he  attended  a  Harlem 
street-comer  meeting  held  about  2  hours  before  the  breakout  of  the 
riot  and  organized  by  Progressive  Labor,  The  witness  offered  the 
transcript  of  remarks  made  at  this  rally  by  William  Epton  who,  in  a 
highly  inflammatory  speech,  told  the  crowd  of  300  that  "we're  going  to 
have  to  kill  a  lot  of  these  cops,  a  lot  of  these  judges  *  *  *." 

On  July  19,  the  day  after  the  riot  started,  the  witness  attended  a 
meeting  of  the  PLM-created  Harlem  Defense  Council.  At  the  meeting, 
which  preceded  the  resumption  of  the  rioting  on  that  day,  it  was  sug- 
gested that  the  group  attempt  to  lure  a  police  officer  into  a  side  street 
where  he  would  be  killed  as  a  form  of  retaliation  against  the  police 
department.  At  this  same  meeting,  William  McAdoo,  a  PLM  member, 
told  of  plans  to  print  a  leaflet  showing  how  to  make  a  Molotov  cock- 
tail with  an  empty  soda  bottle  and  a  rag. 

923 


924    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Hart  said  that  William  Epton  entered  the  room  during  the 
July  19  meeting  and  stated  "that  another  riot  should  be  organized  on 
the  Lower  East  Side,  which  would  spread  out  the  police  force  and 
keep  them  from  suppressing  the  riot  in  the  Harlem  area." 

The  witness  offered  a  number  of  exhibits  which  related  to  his  testi- 
mony concerning  PLM  and  its  role  in  the  1964  Harlem  riot.  Epton,  he 
noted,  had  been  indicted  and  convicted  of  "advocacy  of  criminal 
anarchy"  and  11  other  PLM  members  were  convicted,  along  with 
Epton,  on  similar  charges. 

Detective  Hart,  a  Negro,  was  asked  to  comment  on  a  claim  by  Wil- 
liam Epton  that  he  spoke  for  the  Negro  people.  He  stated : 

I  can  only  say  that  Epton  and  people  like  him  speak  only  for  a  small  disil- 
lusioned segment  of  un-American  misfits — rabblerousers,  who  would  like  to  see 
America  fall  into  the  hands  of  communism. 

The  responsible  black  man  today  wants  a  change,  but  he  has  enough  faith  in 
this  country  to  change  it  through  the  ballot,  which  he  is  doing  every  day.  He  has 
proven  and  continues  to  prove  his  loyalty  to  this  covmtry — and  in  no  uncertain 
terms^ — by  this  outstanding  record  in  Vietnam. 

He  realizes  that  it  is  no  longer  impossible  to  become  a  black  sheriff,  a  black 
mayor,  a  black  Supreme  Court  Justice,  and  that  it  is  quite  jwssible  he  can  even 
be  elected  President  in  the  not  too  distant  future. 

The  witness  testified  that  he  believed  the  July  18,  1964,  Progressive 
Labor  Movement-sponsored  meeting  was  the  "triggering  device  or  the 
catalyst"  which  sparked  the  1964  Harlem  riot. 

TESTIMONY  OF   PHILLIP  A.   LUCE  AND  JUDITH   WARDEN 

On  October  24,  1967,  the  members  of  the  House  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities  had  voted  to  make  public  certain  portions  of 
executive  testimony  of  Mr.  Phillip  Abbott  Luce  and  Miss  Judith  War- 
den received  on  June  8  and  9,  1965.  Mr.  Luce  and  Miss  Warden  had 
both  been  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party.  Mr.  Luce  had  been 
a  member  from  approximately  July  1964  until  January  1965.  Miss 
Warden,  who  had  been  an  editor  of  Challenge^  official  newspaper  of 
PLP,  joined  a  few  months  previous  to  Mr.  Luce  and  also  left  the  orga- 
nization in  January  1965. 

The  committee  staff  director  read  those  portions  of  the  Luce/Warden 
testimony  which  were  relevant  to  the  topic  of  the  hearings,  namely,  the 
involvement  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  (formerly  Progressive 
Labor  Movement)  in  the  1964  Harlem  riot. 

The  earlier  testimony  of  Mr.  Luce  and  Miss  Warden  corroborated  the 
testimony  of  Detective  Hart  in  pinpointing  PLM  as  the  primai'y  cata- 
lyst in  helping  to  initiate  and  prolong  the  1964  Harlem  riot. 

TESTIMONY     OF    HERBERT    ROMERSTEIN 

Li  the  afternoon  session  of  the  hearings  of  October  31, 1967,  Herbert 
Romerstein,  an  investigator  for  the  House  (Committee  on  Un-American 
Activities,  stated  that  he  had  conducted  a  background  investigation 
into  the  events  leading  up  to  the  Harlem  riot. 

He  noted  that  racial  and  antipolice  agitation  had  taken  place  for 
many  years  in  New  York.  This  agitation,  Mr.  Romerstein  observed, 
was — 

developed  by  the  various  organizations  vpithin  the  Communist  periphery — ^the 
Communist  Party  itself,  as  well  as  other  organizations  afiBliated  with  the  Com- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    925 

munist  Party  and,  subsequently,  organizations-  of  the  Red  Chiiiiese-oriented  Com- 
munists, such  as  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  and  organizations  affiliated  with  it. 

Mr.  Eomerstein  declared  that  the  Communist  Party  had  very  little 
success  in  gaining  recruits  among  the  Negro  working  class  in  the  past. 
He  added: 

But  we  have  suddenly  seen  a  new  approach  by  the  Communists.  Rather  than 
attempting  to  win  over  Negro  workers  whom  they  have  been  unsuccessful  with, 
there  is  now  an  attempt  to  win  over  another  segment  of  the  Negro  population,  a 
segment  which  exists  in  every  population,  the  juvenile  delinquent  and  semi- 
criminal  element.  *  *  * 

The  committee  investigator  introduced  documents  which  showed 
"police  brutality"  agitation  by  the  Communists,  from  1948  on,  in  this 
country.  He  made  specific  references  to  Progressive  Labor  publications 
which  were  disseminated  in  the  months  prior  to,  during,  and  after  the 
1964  Harlem  riot.  These  publications  deliberately  framed  police  bru- 
tality incidents  in  propaganda  form.  The  headlines :  "POLICE  WAR 
ON  HARLEM,"  "COPS  TRIGGER  TWO  MORE  MURDERS," 
"COPS  BEAT  PICKETS  IN  THIRD  ST.  'WAR,'  "  are  indicative  of 
the  type  of  inflammatory  literature  which  was  distributed  by  PLM. 

The  witness  told  of  a  rally  of  the  Congress  of  Racial  Equality 
(CORE)  which  was  held  shortly  after,  and  only  a  few  blocks  away 
from,  the  PLM  rally  of  July  18,  1964,  the  day  the  riot  started. 

The  CORE  rally,  aforementioned,  actually  serv^ed  to  bring  a  large 
crowd  marching  down  to  the  police  station  in  Harlem  for  a  confronta- 
tion with  the  police. 

Mr.  Romerstein  told  the  subcommittee  of  the  statement  of  rent  strike 
leader,  Jesse  Gray,  at  a  July  19, 1964,  meeting  of  various  Harlem-based 
militant  organizations  after  the  first  night  of  rioting.  The  committee 
investigator  stated : 

He  called  for  a  hundred  skilled  black  revolutionaries  who  are  ready  to  die  to 
correct  what  he  called  the  police  brutality  situation  in  Harlem.  He  said,  "There 
is  only  one  thing  that  can  correct  the  situation,  and  that  is  guerrilla  warfare." 

Jesse  Gray  was  a  fifth  amendment  witness  before  the  Committee  on 
Un-American  Activities  in  1960.  He  had  been  identified  in  sworn  testi- 
mony as  the  former  organizer  for  the  Communist  Party  in  Harlem. 

James  Farmer,  then  CORE  director,  made  a  speech  at  this  same 
meeting  (which  he  repeated  later  the  same  day  on  WABC-TV)  that 
he  was  eyewitness  to  a  policeman  in  Harlem  coldly  shooting  in  the 
groin  a  Negro  woman  who  had  merely  asked  him  for  directions  out  of 
the  riot  area.  He,  Farmer,  later  admitted — long  after  his  inflammatory 
statement  had  had  its  effect — that  he  had  only  been  told  of  the  incident 
which,  after  investigation,  proved  to  have  never  taken  place. 

Farmer's  statement  was  quoted  in  a  black  nationalist  magazine  and 
was  accepted  as  fact  mitil  months  later  when  the  statement  was 
repudiated  as  nothing  more  than  rumor. 

Mr.  Romerstein  disclosed  that  the  Lower  East  Side  Club  of  Progres- 
sive Labor  refused  to  trigger  another  riot  (during  the  Harlem  dis- 
turbance) in  their  area  of  New  York  City  "because  they  felt  that  they 
only  had  a  small  percentage  of  the  juvenile  delinquents  *  *  *"  on  the 
Lower  East  Side. 

The  committee  investigator  asserted  that  the  Harlem  1964  riot  was 
a  classic  pattern  of  a  Communist-manipulated  civil  disorder. 

Mr.  Romerstein  offered  for  insertion  into  the  record  the  criminal 


926    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

contempt  citations  against  five  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement  in  New  York  County. 

The  five  PLM  members  refused  to  answer  the  questions  of  a  New 
York  City  grand  jury  pertaining  to  the  Harlem  riot,  even  though  the 
grand  jury  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  them  for  any  crimes  that 
might  have  been  revealed  by  their  testimony. 

TESTIMONY    OF    RAYMOND    WOOD 

On  November  1,  1967,  subcommittee  hearings  resumed  at  10  a.m., 
and  the  next  witness,  Detective  Raymond  Wood,  a  member  of  the 
New  York  City  Police  Department,  was  sworn  in. 

In  April  1964  Detective  Wood,  assigned  to  the  Bronx  section  of 
New  York  City,  had  joined  the  Bronx  chapter  of  the  Congress  of 
Racial  Equality  (CORE). 

He  testified  that  in  July  1964,  following  the  riot,  he,  Herbert 
CaUender,  leader  of  the  Bronx  CORE  chapter,  and  John  Valentine, 
a  member  of  Bronx  CORE,  attempted  to  make  a  "citizen's"  arrest 
on  the  mayor.  The  three  were  subsequently  arrested. 

Detective  Wood  told  of  meeting,  on  December  14,  1964,  Robert 
Collier,  an  ex-member  of  the  Revolutionary  Action  Movement  (RAM) . 

The  witness  revealed  a  conversation  with  Collier  pertaining  to 
the  need  to  obtain  a  list  of  technical  books  for  Major  Ernesto  "Che" 
Guevara,  then  a  member  of  Castro's  Cuban  U.N.  delegation.  Mr. 
Wood  agreed  to  help  Collier  obtain  the  books. 

Robert  Collier  told  the  witness  that  he  was  interested  in  forming 
a  "Black  Liberation  Front."  The  foi-mer  RAM  member  described 
how  to  use  mortars  on  a  police  station  and  disclosed  a  plan  to  obtain 
arms  from  New  York  State  armories.  Collier  also  had  a  plan  for 
an  alliance  with  "French  Liberation  forces,"  a  Canadian  activist 
group,  to  obtain  "plastique"  explosives. 

The  former  RAM  member  also  hoped  to  persuade  the  leadership 
of  the  all-Negro  Freedom  Now  Party  to  become  a  "front  organization 
for  the  Black  Liberation  Front." 

Mr.  Wood  detailed  Collier's  plan  to  blow  up  docks  along  the  New 
York  City  waterfront  and  the  Statue  of  Liberty.  Plans  were  also 
discussed  among  members  of  the  RAM  front  to  blow  up  the  Liberty 
Bell  and  the  Washington  Monument. 

The  witness  stated  that  Robert  Collier,  Walter  Bowe,  and  Khaleel 
Sayyed  were  all  convicted  in  the  conspiracy,  as  fourth  member, 
Michelle  Duclos,  turned  "state's  evidence"  and  was  subsequently  de- 
ported to  Canada. 

The  police  detective  concluded  his  testimony  by  saying  that  Robert 
Collier  had  formulated  his  plans  to  blow  up  the  docks  and  national 
monuments  in  order  to  help  create  a  situation  of  guerrilla  warfare 
in  the  United  States  by  showing  young  Negroes  who  wished  to  fi^ht 
that  somebody  was  prepared  to  take  positive  violent  action.  Collier 
hoped  that  these  young  Negroes  could  be  recruited  for  guerrilla  warfare 
or  for  future  riot  activity. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    927 
TESTIMONT    Or    HERBERT    ROMERSTEIN RESUMED 

Committee  investigator  Komerstein  resumed  his  testimony  con- 
cerning the  1964  Harlem  riot  on  November  1,  1967.  His  testimony 
was  centered  around  the  postriot  period  of  the  1964  riot  and  out- 
lined the  activities  of  various  organizations  which  have  continued  to 
foster  discord  among  the  races  and  whicih  continue  to  circulate  highly 
inflammatory  literature  designed  to  maintain  a  high  degree  of  racial 
tension  in  the  New  York  area. 

The  committee  investigator  noted  that  "Progressive  Labor  contin- 
ued its  agitational  activity  after  the  Harlem  riot."  He  introduced 
several  exhibits  which  graphically  demonstrated  the  postriot  propa- 
ganda activity  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

Mr.  Romerstein  testified  briefly  regarding  the  East  Harlem  dis- 
turbances in  1967.  He  recalled  that  the  altercation  was  termed  "minor" 
in  terms  of  the  number  of  participants  and  damage. 

Committee  investigator  Romerstein  emphasized  the  point  that  a 
"relative  handful"  of  people  "trained  and  prepared  to  commit  acts 
of  violence  can  always  be  considerably  more  dangerous  than  a  large 
mob  that  has  no  direction  and  that  can  be  controlled  by  the  police." 

Mr.  Romerstein  reported  in  his  testimony  on  the  activities  of  the 
Revolutionary  Action  Movement  (RAM)  in  this  country  in  order 
to  further  demonstrate  how  far  a  small  handful  of  individuals,  dedi- 
cated to  violence,  can  go  toward  disrupting  society.  He  cited  the 
abortive  plot  by  RAM  members  to  assassinate  moderate  Negro  leaders 
as  one  example  of  the  determination  of  RAM  members  to  disrupt 
American  society. 

The  witness  described  the  backgrounds  of  certain  RAM  members 
in  order  to  show  that,  for  the  most  part,  these  individuals  were  highly 
educated — one  member  was  an  assistant  principal  of  a  school  in  New 
York  City — and  held  "extremely  good  white-collar  jobs." 

Mr.  Romerstein  noted  that  a  Black  Arts  Theater  in  New  York  City 
had  been  a  recipient  of  Federal  poverty  funds.  The  theater,  discovered 
to  have  been  a  storage  house  for  weapons,  had  once  produced  a  play  in- 
structing Negroes  in  methods  of  slaying  white  persons. 

The  witness  went  on  to  cite  example  after  example  of  continued  or- 
ganizational propaganda  activity  in  and  around  the  Harlem  area  in 
the  postriot  period  (July  1964  to  the  present  day).  He  cited  the 
examples  of  agitation  of  groups  such  as : 

SNCC  (Student  Nonviolent  Coordinating  Committee),  whose  di- 
rector of  international  affairs,  James  Foreman,  called  for  the  various 
Afro- Asian  U.N.  delegations  to  put  direct  and  indirect  pressures  on 
the  U.S.  Government  to  stop  "  'unwarranted  and  brutal  suppression' 
of  Americain  [sic]  Negroes  by  police." 

Mau  Mail  Society,  whose  leader,  Charles  Morris,  was  quoted  as  say- 
ing Negro  youth  "must  take  machetes  and  destroy  Uncle  Toms" 
(Negroes  friendly  to  whites) . 

Exhibits  were  entered  on  these  and  other  groups  which  have  been 
involved  in  racial  agitation  in  the  New  York  City  area  following  the 
1964  Harlem  riot.  Mr.  Romerstein  emphasized  that  such  racial  agita- 
tion is  currently  taking  place  as  it  has  over  the  past  4  years  and 
longer. 

At  the  close  of  testimony  into  the  Harlem  riot,  Chairman  Willis 
stated : 


928    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

I  do  not  believe  there  can  be  doubt  in  the  mind  of  any  reasonable  person  but 
that  these  activities  tended  to — and  were  designed  to — inflame  the  community 
and  arouse  emotions  to  such  an  intense  pitch  that  any  number  of  incidents  might 
have  touched  off  a  riot. 

The  Progressive  Labor  Party,  of  course,  was  not  the  only  subversive  organiza- 
tion operating  in  the  area.  Other  such  groups  took  actions  and  distributed 
propaganda  which  inflamed  the  community.  The  most  important  role,  however, 
was  clearly  played  by  the  Progressive  Labor  Party. 

In  my  view,  there  is  no  doubt  but  that  subversive  elements  played  a  major 
and  probably  the  key  role  in  precipitating  the  Harlem  riot  of  July  1964. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES   IN   RIOTS,   LOOTING,  AND 

BURNING 

Part  2 


TUESDAY,  OCTOBER  31,  1967 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Subcommittee  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.C. 

PUBLIC  hearings 

The  subcommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met, 
pursuant  to  call,  at  10  a.m.,  in  Room  311,  Cannon  House  Office  Building, 
Washington,  D.C,  Hon.  Edwin  E.  Willis  (chairman)  presiding. 

(Subcommittee  members:  Representatives  Edwin  E.  Willis,  of 
Louisiana,  chairman;  William  M.  Tuck,  of  Virginia;  Richard  H. 
Ichord,  of  Missouri;  John  M.  Ashbrook,  of  Ohio;  and  Albert  W. 
Watson,  of  South  Carolina ;  also  Jolm  C.  Culver,  of  Iowa,  in  absence 
of  Mr.  Willis.) 

Subcommittee  members  present:  Representatives  Willis,  Tuck, 
Ichord,  Ashbrook,  and  Watson. 

Staff  members  present:  Francis  J.  McNamara,  director;  Chester  D. 
Smith,  general  counsel;  and  Herbert  Romerstein,  investigator. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  come  to  order. 

Gentlemen,  I  respectfully  request  that  there  be  no  photographs  taken 
in  the  room. 

Will  you  call  the  first  witness  ? 

The  first  witness  this  morning  is  Mr.  Adolph  W.  Hart. 

Mr.  Hart,  will  you  please  raise  your  right  hand  ? 

Do  you  solenmly  swear  that  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give  the 
subcommittee  is  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth, 
so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  do. 

TESTIMONY  OF  ADOLPH  W.  HART 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  as  the  committee  is  aware,  the  hearings 
will  cover  the  Harlem  riot  of  1964  and  activities  conducted  by  certam 
groups  prior  to,  during,  and  after  the  riot. 

The  riot  broke  out  on  July  18,  1964.  It  lasted  6  days.  It  resulted  in 
1  death,  118  reported  injuries,  465  arrests,  and  millions  of  dollars  in 
property  damage. 

It  should  be  pointed  out  that  notwithstanding  the  fact  that  there 

929 


930    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  TlIOTfe,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

are  approximately  350,000  Negro  residents  of  Harlem,  less  than  4,000 
of  them  participated  in  the  riot.  This  is  a  little  over  1  percent.  The 
overwhelming  majority  did  not  participate  in  any  of  the  violence 
occurring  during  those  6  days. 

Give  us  your  full  name,  please. 

Mr.  Hart.  Adolph  W.  Hart. 

Mr.  Smith.  Where  are  you  employed  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  New  York  City  Police  Department. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  is  your  rank  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  am  a  detective. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  you  ever  a  member  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  was. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  join  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  with  the 
knowledge  and  consent  of  your  superiors  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  When  did  you  make  your  first  contact  in  the  Progres- 
sive Labor  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  On  October  12,  1963, 1  attempted  to  make  contact.  How- 
ever, contact  was  not  made  until  November  12, 1963. 

I  made  contact  at  the  office  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  at 
336  Lenox  Avenue,  New  York  City,  where  I  then  first  met  with  Mr. 
William  Epton. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  is  William  Epton  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  He  is  chairman  of  the  Harlem  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment. He  was  later  elected  vice  chairman  to  the  national  Progressive 
Labor 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Epton  describe  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  to 
you  at  that  time  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  he  did.  He  said  that  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement  was  the  only  organization  of  its  kind  that  the  white  police 
didn't  attack,  because  its  members  carried  arms  and  they  did  not  be- 
lieve in  turning  the  other  cheek  when  attacked. 

He  also  stated  that  only  those  whites  that  were  willing  to  die  for 
Negro  freedom  were  allowed  to  join  the  ranlvs  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  classes  in  Marxism  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  did.  He  invited  me  to  attend  the  first  class  in 
Marxism  on  November  14,  1963,  which  I  attended  at  the  Harlem  Pro- 
gressive Labor  office  on  Lenox  Avenue. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  was  the  teacher  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  The  teacher  was  a  man  by  the  name  of  Mr.  Isadore  Begun. 

The  Chairman.  The  general  subject  was  Marxism,  did  you  say? 

Mr.  Hart.  Pardon  me,  sir  ? 

The  Chairman.  The  general  subject  of  the  lecture  was  Marxism  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Marxism ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  for  the  record,  Isadore  Begun  in  1936 
was  appointed  New  York  State  educational  director  of  the  Communist 
Party.  From  1945  to  1950  he  was  chairnum  of  the  Bronx  County  Com- 
munist Party. 

Was  Epton  present  during  this  class  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  he  was. 

Mr.  Smith.  "W^at  were  the  classes  about  ? 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    931 

Mr.  Hart.  They  generally  dealt  along  the  lines  of  the  bourgeois  and 
proletariat  elements  and  of  the  revolution  according  to  Marxist  theory. 

Oftentimes  they  would  relate  the  Marxist  revolution  to  that  of  thb 
Cuban  revolution  crisis. 

It  was  also  at  these  meetings  that  they  talked  about  guerrilla  fight- 
ing and  how  to  mobilize  the  people  in  the  rural  or  country  areas  to 
come  with  them  and,  in  the  event  of  a  confrontation  or  attempted 
takeover  of  the  Government,  to  move  in  large  cities,  to  strike  in  guer- 
rilla tactics,  and  pull  back  to  the  countryside,  where  they  made 
friends — and  to  the  hillside. 

Mr.  Smith.  Was  there  any  reference  to  the  Chinese  Communist 
Party? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  Both  Begun  and  Epton  stated  that  the  Progres- 
sive Labor  Movement  followed  the  international  position  adhered  to 
by  the  Chinese  Communist  Party,  that  of  the  violent  overthrow  of 
the  Government  as  opposed  to  the  more  coexistence  line  of  the 
Russians. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  meet  with  Epton  on  November  22? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  I  met  with  Epton  at  the  Progressive  Labor 
headquarters.  It  was  there  he  spoke  about  combatting  and  beating  the 
police  in  various  events — like  the  picket  line,  waj^s  of  throwing 
marbles  under  the  hoofs  of  horses,  sticking  them  with  sharp  instru- 
ments. 

Mr.  Smith,  Did  you  meet  Epton  again  on  November  27  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  I  did.  I  met  him  at  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment. 

We  both  then  went  to  the  office  of  the  Tri-Line  Offset  Printing 
Company,^  146  West  67th  Street  in  New  York  City,  to  arrange  for 
some  printing  of  various  materials. 

Mr.  SMrrn.  What  is  Tri-Line? 

Mr.  Hart.  It  is  a  printing  company  that  produces  the  Progressive 
Labor  magazine  and  puts  out  various  leftist  literature. 

Mr.  Smith.  I  offer  you  a  certificate  of  incorporation  of  the  Tri-Line 
Offset  Company,  incorporated  in  the  State  of  New  York,  and  listing 
the  incorporators  therefor.  I  ask  you  if  you  can  identify  these  indi- 
viduals. 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  can. 

All  are  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

Mr.  Smith.  The  first  one  is  Michael  Crenovich,  Fred  Jerome,  and 
Nathaniel  Barnett.  You  have  identified  all  of  these  as  members  of  the 
Progressive  Labor  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  enter  this  certificate  of  incorporation 
of  the  Tri-Line  Offset  Co.  as  Hart  Exhibit  No.  1. 

The  Chairman.  Do  you  want  to  offer  it  ? 

The  document  will  be  received. 

(Document  marked  "Hart  Exhibit  No.  1"  and  retained  in  committee 
files.) 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  discuss  joining  Progressive  Labor  with 
Epton? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  I  did. 


1  Correct  name :  "Tri-Llne  Offset  Co.  Inc." 


932    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

While  attending  Marxist  classes  on  December  26,  1963,  and  Janu- 
ary 2,  1964, 1  was  then  encouraged  by  Mr.  Epton  to  join  the  Progres- 
sive Labor  Party,  and  I  then  did  so. 

Mr.  Smith.  When  did  you  attend  your  first  official  meeting  of  the 
Progressive  Labor  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hakt.  On  January  17, 1964, 1  attended  my  first  official  meeting 
of  the  Harlem  Club  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement.  It  was  held 
at  336  Lenox  Avenue,  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  were  the  active  members  of  this  club  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  At  this  time  it  was  William  Epton;  his  wife,  Beryl 
Epton ;  Vivian  Anderson ;  and  David  Douglas. 

Douglas  was  the  second  in  command  under  Epton  in  this  group. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  give  us  any  description  of  Vivian  Anderson 
that  would  help  in  identifying  her  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  She  is  a  member.  She  was  then  a  school  teacher  in  the 
New  York  City  school  system.  She  was  quite  active  in  most  leftist 
organizations  during  that  time. 

Mr.  Smith.  By  what  name  were  you  known  within  the  Progressive 
Labor  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  By  my  own  name,  Adolph  Hart.  I  was  often  called  Abe 
as  a  nickname. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  write  some  articles  for  the  Progressive  Labor 
newspaper,  Challenge  f 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Wlio  instructed  you  to  write  these  articles  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Fred  Jerome  and  William  Epton. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  any  of  them  printed  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  I  had  an  article  printed  in  the  Progressive  Labor 
magazine.  I  had  another  article  printed  in  the  Challenge  newspaper. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  they  instruct  you  how  to  write  for  Challengef 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  I  was  given  instnictions  by  Mr.  Fred  Jerome 
on  how  to  slant  the  news  toward  the  leftist  line. 

The  lessons  went  on  for  6  or  7  months. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  meetings  of  the  newspaper  committee  of 
the  Progressive  Labor  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  name  some  of  the  persons  who  were  in  attend- 
ance at  the  meetings  of  the  newspaper  committee  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  There  was  William  Epton,  Fred  Jerome,  Vivian  Ander- 
son, Otis  Chestnut,  David  Douglas,  and  Judy  Warden. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  describe  Otis  Chestnut  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  He  is  a  male  Negro  in  his  early  20's.  He  is  quite 
active  in  the  neighborhood.  He  published  a  small  tabloid  called  the 
118th  Street  Block  Association  Weekly . 

He  would  visit  at  the  headquarters  often.  He  and  Epton  would  go 
over  the  newspaper  to  decide  what  to  go  into  it. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  with  respect  to  Judy  Warden  just 
named — can  you  describe  Judy  Warden  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  White  female  in  her  20\s.  I  saw  her  at  many  Progressive 
Labor  functions. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  forum  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Mr)ve- 
ment  on  February  24, 1964  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    933 

Mr,  Smith.  "Wlio  was  the  speaker,  and  what  was  the  subject? 

Mr,  Hart.  The  speaker  was  Sue  Warren.  The  subject  revolved 
around  the  Sino-Soviet  dispute. 

During  this  discussion  Miss  Warren  supported  the  Chinese  Com- 
munist position  and  said  she  had  recently  been  to  Red  China.  She  also 
advocated  the  violent  methods  of  changing  the  Government,  as  op- 
posed to  the  peaceful  methods. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr,  Chairman,  for  the  record  at  this  point,  with  regard 
to  Susan  Warren 

The  Chairman,  Mr,  Hart,  you  are  doing  splendidly.  Would  you 
talk  directly  into  the  mike  just  a  little  louder  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  Smith,  Mr.  Chairman,  for  the  record,  Susan  Warren  testified 
before  the  committee,  part  1  of  "Communist  Training  Operations" 
hearings,  held  July  21  and  22, 1959. 

Susan  Warren's  membership  in  the  Communist  Party  is  a  matter  of 
public  record.  In  addition  to  the  publicity  given  by  the  Daily  Worker 
to  her  work  for  the  party,  the  1948  catalogue  for  the  Jefferson  School 
of  Social  Science  records  that  Miss  Warren,  one  of  the  teachers  at  the 
school,  was  a  former  educational  director.  New  York  County  Com- 
mittee of  the  Communist  Partj. 

Appearmg  as  a  witness  before  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Ac- 
tivities on  July  26, 1957,  Miss  Warren  invoked  the  fii^st  and  fifth  amend- 
ments, refusing  to  answer  questions  pertaining  to  her  membership  in, 
or  her  efforts  on  behalf  of,  the  Communist  Party. 

As  an  instructor  at  the  Jefferson  School  in  the  late  19-10's  and  early 
1950's,  Miss  Warren  taught  such  subjects  as  "Capitalism  and  the  Class 
Struggle." 

In  1955  and  in  1956  her  subjects  included  "China,  India,  and 
Africa — New  Role  in  World  Politics,"  At  the  Marxist  forum  held  in 
Adelphia  Hall  in  early  1958,  "Cliina"  was  again  the  subject  of  her 
lecture. 

In  December  of  that  year  Miss  Warren  was  scheduled  to  teach  on  the 
correct  handling  of  contradictions  among  the  people  at  The  Faculty 
of  Social  Science,  As  a  member  of  the  teaching  staff  of  The  Faculty 
m  1959,  Tlie  Worker  noted  that  Sue  Warren  would  teach  the  "Chinese 
Communes," 

She  lived  in  China  over  a  year  and  a  half  in  the  early  1960's. 

Formerly  editor  and  contributor  to  the  Far  East  Spotlight  and  Far 
East  Reporter. 

In  the  summer  of  1967  Sue  Warren  was  a  member  of  the  staff  of  the 
Free  School  of  New  York. 

Can  you  name  some  of  those  who  were  in  attendance  at  the  meeting 
you  mentioned  just  a  few  moments  a^o  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  It  was  William  Epton  and  his  wife. 

The  Chairman.  Will  you  spell  the  name  of  Epton  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  E-p-t-o-n. 

The  Chairman.  Epton  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

David  Douglas,  Isadore  Begim,  Vivian  Anderson,  and  Otis 
Chestnut. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  class  in  Marxism  on  March  9,  1964? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  I  did. 


934    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Smith.  Will  you  describe  it  to  the  committee  ? 

Mr.  Hakt.  I  would  prefer  to  do  that  in  executive  session. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  was  present  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Among  those  present  were,  again,  Isadore  Begun,  who 
taught  the  course,  William  Ef)ton,  Vivian  Anderson,  and  David 
Douglas. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Epton  participate  in  the  class  discussion? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  he  did.  Epton  suggested  that  it  would  be  worth- 
while for  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  to  get  in  on 
the  gromid  floor  of  Malcolm  X's  new  organization,  which  later  be- 
came known  as  the  Organization  for  Afro- American  Unity. 

He  also  advised  it  would  be  necessary  to  learn  how  to  handle  fire- 
arms and  to  become  quite  proficient  with  them. 

He  told  me  that  I  and  another  person  named  Harold  Young,  who 
had  been  attending  some  of  the  classes  and  meetings  at  Progressive 
Labor,  would  have  to  find  a  place  somewhere  in  upstate  New  York 
to  practice  shooting  firearms. 

He  stated  that  myself  and  Young  had  firearms,  that  Progressive 
Labor  would  supply  additional  guns  and  ammunition  for  additional 
persons  who  wished  to  participate  in  shooting. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  identify  Harold  Young  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  He  is  a  male  Negro  in  his  late  20's  who  came  up 
from  either  North  or  South  Carolina  during  the  summer  months 
of  1963. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  have  a  meeting  or  discussion  with  Epton  on 
March  21, 1964? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  I  did.  I  had  a  discussion  at  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement  with  Mr.  Epton,  at  which  time  he  stated  that  the  members 
of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  wanted  them  to  learn  the  art 
of  self-defense  and  that  of  karate  and  that  he  had  hired  a  teacher  that 
he  hoped  would  come  down  and  teach  us  karate  and  judo. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  citywide  meeting  of  Progressive  Labor 
on  March  28, 1964? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  The  meeting  was  held  at  853  Broadway  in  New 
York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  How  many  delegates  were  present  at  this  meeting? 

Mr.  Hart.  There  were  approximately  50. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  persons  elected  to  the  leadership  of  the  Progres- 
sive Labor  Movement  in  New  York  City  at  that  meeting  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  was  elected  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Milton  Rosen  was  elected  as  chairman.  William  Epton 
was  elected  as  vice  chairman,  Fred  Jerome  was  elected  as  propaganda 
director,  but  later  they  decided  to  change  the  name  to  publicity  di- 
rector. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  name  some  others  that  were  present  at  the 
meeting  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  There  was  Mrs.  Epton,  Vivian  Anderson,  David  Douglas, 
Harold  Young,  Alice  Jerome — who  was  the  mother  of  Fred  Jerome — 
Milton  Rosen,  Steve  Martinot,  Michael  Crenovich,  Nat  Barnett,  and 
Levi  Laub. 

Mr.  Smith.  Detective  Hart,  you  earlier  referred  to  a  plan  by  Epton 
to  have  Progressive  Labor  members  join  Malcolm  X's  Organization 
for  Afro-American  Unity. 


SUBVERSIVE  mFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    935 

Do  you  know  of  any  relationship  between  Epton  and  Malcolm  X  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  On  April  2,  1964,  I  was  assigned  duties  at  the 
Progressive  Labor  office  in  Harlem,  answering  the  telephones  with 
Vivian  Anderson. 

While  I  was  there,  I  saw  a  letter  from  Malcolm  X  addressed  to  Mr. 
William  Epton,  in  which  Malcolm  stated  he  hoped  the  two  organiza- 
tions would  work  together  in  the  near  future. 

Mr.  Smith.  On  April  8,  1964,  did  you  attend  a  showing  of  the  Viet 
Cong  movie  at  Columbia  University  ? 

Mr.  Haet.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Do  you  know  who  sponsored  the  meeting  and  the  movie  ? 

Mr.  H[art.  The  Columbia  University  chapter  of  the  Progressive 
Labor  Movement. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  have  occasion  to  speak  to  David  Douglas  at 
this  sho wmg  of  the  movie  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

During  this  conversation  Douglas  stated  to  me  that  himself  and 
Otis  Chestnut  were  going  to  organize  a  1-day  excursion  someplace 
upstate  to  practice  shooting  firearms. 

I  was  invited  to  join  them.  I  was  told  that  there  would  be  others 
there  also.  And  Progressive  Labor  would  again  provide  the  gmis  and 
additional  anmiunition. 

Douglas  promised  to  say  more  about  it  to  me  at  a  later  date. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  have  a  further  discussion  with  Douglas  about 
the  matter  on  April  22, 1964  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

We  were  at  the  office  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement.  David 
Douglas,  Otis  Chestnut,  and  I  decided  to  meet  on  May  5  at  the 
Harlem  Progressive  Labor  Movement  headquarters.  From  there  we 
would  go  to  Long  Island  to  practice  shooting  and  handling  firearms. 
A  contact  would  be  available  on  Long  Island  to  show  us  the  place  to 
shoot.  I  did  not  know  the  contact,  nor  c\in  J  know  where  he  was. 

Chestnut  stated  he  had  brought  a  British  303-Enfield  rifle  from  a 
mail-order  firm,  but  had  never  had  a  chance  to  fire  it. 

Subsequently,  on  May  5,  the  excursion  was  called  off,  because  I 
was  told  that  the  contact  out  on  the  island  had  had  a  death  in  the 
family. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  you  a  member  of  the  May  2nd  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart,  No,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  participate  in  any  May  2nd  Movement  activity  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  I  was  on  the  defense  squad. 

Mr.  Smith.  On  April  30,  1964,  did  you  attend  a  meeting  of  the  de- 
fense squad  for  the  May  2nd  demonstration  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  I  did. 

The  meeting  was  held  in  the  apartment  of  Steve  Martinot,  at  414 
West  121st  Street,  Apartment  151.  Approximately  30  to  35  people 
were  in  attendance,  including  Fred  Jerome  and  Levi  Laub.  Jerome 
and  Laub  led  the  meeting. 

They  decided  that  the  group  would  be  divided  into  six  squads  of 
from  five  to  six  persons  each. 

Da\ad  Douglas  and  another  person  were  assigned  to  lead  the  strong- 
arm  squad,  to  weed  out  what  they  called  troublemakers. 

There  were  no  incidents  at  the  demonstration,  however.  The  strong- 
arm  squad,  in  the  event  of  confrontation  with  the  police,  were  to  lead 

88-083  O— 68— pt.  2 2 


936    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

the  others  in  the  group  to  whatever  actions  they  wanted  to  do.  They 
would  confront  the  police,  and  the  other  groups  were  to  follow. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  for  the  record,  prior  testimony  before 
this  committee  by  Mr.  Phillip  Luce  identified  10  of  the  12  board  mem- 
bers of  the  May  2nd  Movement  as  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement. 

Detective  Hart,  on  May  19,  1964,  did  you  have  a  discussion  with 
one  Jake  Rosen? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Wlio  is  Jake  Rosen  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  He  is  known  to  me  as  a  member  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  was  discussed  with  Rosen  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  At  this  time  Rosen  showed  me  six  smoke  bombs,  which 
he  said  were  to  be  used  against  former  Mississippi  Governor  Ross 
Barnett,  who  was  scheduled  to  speak  at  City  College  that  afternoon. 

However,  after  discussion  with  another  person  in  Progi-essive  Labor, 
it  was  decided  that  the  smoke  bombs  were  not  to  be  used  because  of 
possible  panic  and  injury  to  the  students  and  that  eggs  were  to  be 
thrown  instead. 

The  Ross  Barnett  speech  took  place  on  May  21.  On  May  22  I  was 
advised  that  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  members  did,  in  fact, 
throw  eggs  at  Ross  Barnett. 

Mr.  Smith.  They  were  not  fearful  of  injury  to  Ross  Barnett? 

Mr.  Hart.  No,  sir.  They  were  fearful  of  injury  to  the  students  and 
the  possible  blame  being  put  on  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  meeting  of  the  citywide  committee  of 
Progressive  Labor  held  on  May  28, 1964  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Where  was  this  meeting  held  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  At  the  home  of  Michael  Crenovich,  225  Avenue  C,  New 
York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  for  the  record,  Mike  Crenovich,  former 
member  of  the  Communist  Party,  who  took  the  fifth  amendment  on 
Communist  Party  membership  oefore  this  conunittee  in  1959,  was 
identified  by  Phillip  Luce  in  testunony  before  this  committee  as  a 
member  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

Please  tell  us  about  this  meeting. 

Mr.  Hart.  Present  at  the  meeting,  among  others,  were  William  Ep- 
ton,  Milton  Rosen,  Fred  Jerome,  Steve  Martinot,  and  Mike  Crenovich. 

At  the  meeting  it  was  decided  by  Milton  Rosen  that  a  campaign 
should  be  started  against  an  organization  in  Brooklyn  then  called  the 
Maccabees. 

The  Maccabees  were  organized  by  orthodox  Jews  in  Brooklyn  to 
protect  members  of  their  commmiity  against  hoodlums  and  muggers, 
because  there  was  insufficient  police  protection  at  that  time. 

Members  of  the  Maccabees,  some  of  whom  were  Negroes,  went 
through  the  areas  at  night  in  cars  and  would  have  radios  to  warn  the 
police  department  of  incidents  that  were  taking  place  in  various  parts 
of  the  neighborhood. 

Although  some  of  the  membei-s  of  this  group  were  Negi-oes,  and  the 
group  was  not  in  any  way  a  vigilante  group,  there  was  some  feeling 
against  them  on  the  part  of  the  civil  rights  people.  And,  apparently. 
Progressive  Labor  wished  to  take  advantage  of  this. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    937 

According  to  Milton  Rosen,  lie  likened  this  group  of  orthodox  Jews 
to  the  Birchites  and  said  that  something  should  be  done  to  get  the 
Negro  leaders  in  the  neighborhood  aroused  enough  to  hold  a  rally 
against  the  Maccabees,  and  stated  specifically  that  the  Reverend  Mil- 
ton Galainison  of  Brooklyn  should  be  contacted  to  help  organize  this 
meeting.  This  would  possibly  fan  up  anti-Semitism. 

Mr.  Smith.  On  June  14,  1964,  did  you  attend  a  Malcom  X  meeting 
at  the  Audubon  Ballroom,  166th  Street  and  Broadway  in  New  York 
City? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

I  attended  this  meeting  under  instructions  of  Fred  Jerome  of  Pro- 
gressive Labor  in  order  to  do  an  article  for  Challenge,  the  newspaper. 

White  people  were  not  admitted  to  the  meeting,  so  they  decided  to 
send  a  Negro  Progressive  Labor  Movement  meinber  to  cover  it. 

Jerome  instructed  me  to  call  him  immediately  after  the  meeting 
and  tell  him  what  Malcolm  X  had  said.  At  the  meeting  Malcolm  X 
attacked  Elijah  JMulianunad's  moral  character  and  stated  that  cer- 
tain members  of  the  Muslim  sect  were  involved  in  a  plot  to  assassinate 
Malcolm. 

Malcolm  then  stated  at  tlie  meeting  he  was  to  form  a  new  revolu- 
tionary organization  in  approximately  2  weeks.  He  also  stated  that 
members  of  the  tactical  police  force  were  tough,  but  that  they  could 
also  be  stopped  by  simple  rifle  bullets. 

Malcolm  was  surrounded  by  10  guards  at  this  time,  all  of  whom  were 
armed  with  rifles. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  street-comer  meeting  organized  by 
Progressive  Labor  on  July  18, 1964? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  This  meeting  was  held  on  115th  Street  and  Len- 
ox Avenue  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  was  the  purpose  of  the  meeting  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  The  meeting  evolved  generally  around  alleged  police  bru- 
tality in  the  neighborhood  and,  particularly  at  that  time,  the  Gilligan 
shooting. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  How  large  a  meeting  was  it,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Approximately  250  to  300  pei-sons. 

Mr.  Smith.  Whsit  did  you  do  at  the  meeting? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  was  one  of  Epton's  security  guards. 

Mr.  Smith,  Did  you  hear  Epton  make  any  statements  concerning 
killing  cops  and  judges? 

Mr.  Hart,  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Wliat  were  these  statements  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  I  hand  you  the  transcript  of  the  speeches  of  William 
Epton  at  these  meetings.  Will  you  look  at  it  and  see  if  it  is  what  you 
heard  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  Yes,  it  is. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  will  read  from  page  4  of  William 
Epton's  speech  of  July  18, 1964,  at  4  p.m.  on  Lenox  Avenue  and  115th 
Street : 

If  we're  going  to  be  free,  and  we  will  not  be  fuUy  free  until  we  smash  this  state 
completely  and  totally.  Destroy  and  set  up  a  new  state  of  our  own  choosing  and 
our  own  liking. 

And  in  that  process  of  smashing  this  state,  we're  going  to  have  to  kill  a  lot 
of  these  cops,  a  lot  of  these  judges,  and  we'll  have  to  go  up  against  their  army. 
We'll  organize  our  own  militia  and  our  own  army.  If  we  don't  do  it  brothers, 
you'll  be  subjugated ;  we'll  be  kept  in  chains  for  another  two  or  three  hundred 
years.  *  *  • 


938    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Ohairman,  I  enter  these  transcripts  as  Hart  Exhibits  2  and  3. 

The  Chairman.  They  will  be  so  marked  and  received. 

(Documents  marked  "Hart  Exhibits  Nos.  2  and  3,"  respectively.  See 
pp.  950-966.) 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  meeting  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Coun- 
cil on  July  19, 1964? 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Mr.  Counsel,  before  you  go  into  that  question,  this  meet- 
ing to  which  the  witness  has  just  referred  was  on  July  18, 1964;  is  that 
correct,  Detective  Hart  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr,  IcHORD.  This  was  a  meeting  consisting  of  approximately  250 
people. 

Before  you  leave  that  point,  Mr.  Counsel,  I  would  like  to  have  this 
meeting  fixed  in  relation  to  the  date  of  the  Harlem  riots.  How  far  did 
this  meeting  precede  the  Harlem  riots  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Just  a  couple  of  hours. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  You  mean  the  riot  started  on  July  18  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Thank  you.  Go  ahead, 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  meeting  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Coun- 
cil on  July  19, 1964? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  attended  a  meeting  of  this  group,  which  was 
a  front  organization  for  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

The  meeting  was  held  at  the  offices  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment, 336  Lenox  Avenue  in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  describe  the  Harlem  Defense  Council?  What 
was  its  function  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Names  had  been  taken  at  the  previous  meeting,  and  from  this  list 
of  names  one  name  was  to  be  picked  at  random.  This  name  picked  at 
random,  this  person  would  then  be  made  a  block  captain. 

He  would  then  be  trained  to  know  everyone  else  on  the  list  in  his 
particular  block  and  be  able  to  mobilize  them  on  a  moment's  notice  for 
whatever  situation  would  be  at  hand. 

Mr.  Tuck,  Did  these  people  who  attended  the  meeting,  held  2  hours 
before  the  Harlem  riot,  participate  in  the  Harlem  riot  ?  Did  the  people 
who  attended  the  meeting  participate  in  the  riot  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  the  people  who  attended  the  meeting  participate  in 
the  riot  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  some  of  them. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  was  the  organizer  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  William  Epton. 

Mr.  Smith.  Who  was  present  at  the  meeting? 

Mr.  Hart.  Among  others,  there  was  William  Epton,  David  Douglas, 
and  Harold  Young. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  took  place  at  this  meeting? 

Mr.  Hart.  At  the  meeting  it  was  suggested  Oiey  try  to  sucker  a  police 
officer  off  the  main  avenue,  get  him  into  a  side  street.  They  would  have 
the  block  captains  and  the  block  committees  kill  him  and  then  get  back 
on  the  street  and  go  about  their  business. 

No  action  was  taken  on  this  suggestion  at  the  time,  except  that  every- 
body agreed  it  was  a  good  idea. 

Mr.  Smith,  What  was  the  intended  purpose  of  the  killing? 


SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    939 

Mr.  Hart.  It  was  a  form  of  retaliation  against  the  police  deparc- 
ment. 

At  this  time  William  McAdoo,  a  member  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement,  and  two  male  Negroes  talked  about  printing  a  leaflet  on 
how  to  make  a  Molotov  cocktail  and  to  sign  no  name  to  the  leaflet. 

Epton  agreed  that  the  leaflet  was  a  good  idea.  He  stated  that  Pro- 
gressive Labor  could  not  print  the  leaflet  because  it  could  then  be 
traced  to  the  Progressive  Labor  typewriters  or  the  printshop. 

"William  McAdoo  demonstrated  at  this  time  to  the  group  with  an 
empty  soda  bottle  and  rag,  showing  how  to  make  a  Molotov  cocktail. 
Present  while  he  demonstrated  this  were  Pernella  Wattley,  Harold 
Young,  and  myself. 

Epton  was  not  there  during  this  demonstration.  However,  he  en- 
tered the  room  a  short  while  later  and  stated  that  another  riot  should 
be  organized  on  the  Lower  East  Side,  which  would  spread  out  the 
police  force  and  keep  them  from  suppressing  the  riot  in  the  Harlem 
area. 

After  the  meeting  Epton  stated  to  me  that  the  Molotov  cocktail 
leaflet  was  a  good  way  of  keeping  things  going  until  Saturday,  when 
Epton  intended  to  organize  a  march  that  would  indeed  keep  the  riots 
going. 

Mr.  Smith.  Do  you  have  any  identification  of  William  McAdoo  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  do ;  a  photograph  here. 

Mr.  Smith.  You  are  pointing  to  William  McAdoo  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  McAdoo  on  the  right  side  of  Mr.  Epton. 

(Photograph  marked  "Hart  Exhibit  No.  4"  follows :) 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  4 


[No.  1,  William  McAdoo;  No.  2,  William  Epton  and  No.  3,  Conrad  Lynn] 


940    SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Mr.  Counsel,  before  you  leave  that  point,  could  we 
determine  when  this  incident  regarding  the  "cop  in  the  alley,"  so  to 
speak,  took  place  in  relation  to  the  so-called  campaign  against  the 
Gilligan  cop,  which  was  very  active  in  New  York  at  that  time  ? 

Was  that  before  or  after  the  time  the  campaign  against  Gilligan 
began  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  During  that  same  period  of  time. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  This  was  going  to  be  one  of  general  retaliation 
against  the  Gilligan  cop  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  AsHBRooK.  I  remember  the  leaflet  circulated  on  "Gilligan  the 
cop — wanted  for  murder." 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Detective  Hart,  can  you  identify  anyone  else  in  this 
photograph  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  The  one  on  the  left  of  Mr.  Epton  is  Conrad 
Lynn. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  indicate  what  position  he  held  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Conrad  Lynn  was  then  the  counsel  for  the  Progressive 
Labor  Movement  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  ever  see  copies  of  Eobert  Williams'  publica- 
tion, The  Crusader? 

Mr.  Hart,  Yes,  sir.  I  have  received  copies  of  such  a  publication  dis- 
tributed by  Progressive  Labor  to  its  members. 

This  is  a  copy  of  the  issue  that  I  received  [vol.  5,  No.  4,  May-June 
1964],  which  was  then  published  by  Robert  Williams,  who  is  in  exile 
in  Cuba.  It  states,  in  part,  if  I  may  read : 

The  weapons  of  defense  employed  by  Afroamerican  freedom  fighters  must  con- 
sist of  a  poor  man's  arsenal.  Gasoline  fire  bombs  (Molotov  cocktails),  lye  or  acid 
bombs  (made  by  injecting  lye  or  acid  in  the  metal  end  of  light  bulbs)  can  be 
used  extensively.  During  the  night  hours  such  weax)ons,  thrown  from  roof  tops, 
will  make  the  streets  imppossible  [sic]  for  racist  cops  to  patrol.  H^nd  grenades, 
bazookas,  lights  [sic]  mortars,  rocket  launchers,  machine  guns  and  ammimition 
can  be  bought  clandestinely  from  servicemen,  anxious  to  make  a  fast  dollar. 
*  *  *  Gas  tank  on  public  vehicles  can  be  choked  up  with  sand.  Sugar  is  also 
highly  effective  in  gasoline  lines.  Long  nails  driven  through  boards  and  tacks 
with  large  heads  are  effective  to  slow  the  movement  of  traflSc  on  congested 
roads  at  night.  This  can  cause  havoc  on  turn-pikes.  Derailing  of  trains  causes 
panic.  Explosive  booby  traps  on  police  telephone  boxes  can  be  employed.  High- 
powered  sniper  rifles  are  readily  available.  Armor  piercing  bullets  will  penetrate 
oil  storage  tanks  from  a  distance.  Phosphorus  matches  (kitchen  matches)  placed 
in  air  conditioning  systems  will  cause  delayed  explosions  which  will  destroy 
expensive  buildings.  Flame  throwers  can  be  manufactured  at  home.  Combat 
experienced  ex-service  men  can  easily  solve  that  problem. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  would  like  to  receive  this  copy  as  Hart 
Exhibit  No.  5. 

The  Chairman.  It  may  be  so  marked  and  received. 

(Document  marked  "Hart  Exhibit  No.  5"  and  retained  in  commit- 
tee files.) 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Progressive  Labor  and  the  Harlem  Defense  Coun- 
cil distribute  inflammatory  leaflets  prior  to  or  during  the  riot? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir,  they  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Will  you  please  describe  some  of  these  leaflets? 

Mr.  Hart.  This  leaflet,  entitled  "Fight  Back,"  accuses  the  police 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    941 

department  of  murdering  a  number  of  Negro  and  Puerto  Rican 
people,  including  one  Ralph  Brazier.   (Hart  Exhibit  No.  6) 

During  the  July  19,  1964,  meeting  Benny  Brazier,  brother  of  Ralph, 
made  a  speech  saying  his  brother  was  murdered  by  a  policeman  and 
he  himself  had  been  injured  in  the  eye  by  a  policeman. 

During  the  William  Epton  case,  in  the  testimony,  Mr.  Brazier  ad- 
mitted that  his  eye  was  originally  slashed  by  people  he  did  not  know 
on  the  street,  and  his  brother  was  shot  in  the  course  of  an  altercation 
in  which  a  friend  of  his  brother  was  carrying  a  gun. 

This  leaflet  makes  a  claim  that  none  of  the  victims  were  carrying 
guns. 

Another  leaflet  marked  "Stop  the  Cops"  accuses  the  police  depart- 
ment of  declaring  war  on  Harlem,  which  is  similar  to  what  was  said 
by  William  Epton  on  July  18,  1964.  (Hart  Exhibit  No.  7) 

Another  leaflet  issued  by  the  Progressive  Labor  entitled  "Stop  the 
Killer  Cops  Now !"  shows  Ku  Klux  Klan  uniforms  behind  a  New 
York  City  police  officer.  (Hart  Exhibit  No.  8) 

This  is  a  Harlem  Defense  Council  leaflet  dated  July  15,  1964 — but 
which  was  probably  not  issued  until  July  16,  1964.  It  describes  the 
shooting  of  a  15-year-old  Negro  youth  and  accuses  the  police  depart- 
ment of  organizing  a  campaign  of  terror  against  our  community. 

It  says  "there  may  not  be  many  of  us  left  at  the  rate  the  cops  are 
murdering  us."  (Hart  Exhibit  No.  9) 

This  is  a  Harlem  Defense  Council  leaflet  calling  for  mass  demon- 
stration on  July  25,  1964.  This  is  the  same  demonstration  referred  to 
earlier.  (Hart  Exhibit  No.  10) 

This  is  the  famous  "Wanted  for  Murder — Gilligan,  the  Cop"  poster 
which  was  issued  by  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  and  printed  on  the 
instruction  of  William  Epton  by  the  Tri-Line  Offset  printing  shop. 
(HartExhibitNo.il) 

Here  is  a  picture  showing  young  people  running  through  the  streets 
during  the  riot  carrying  copies  of  this  poster  as  they  were  attacking 
people  and  looting  stores.  (Hart  Exhibit  No.  12) 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  ask  that  the  leaflets  discussed  by 
Detective  Hart  be  marked  as  "Hart  Exhibits  6  through  12"  and  be 
entered  into  the  record  at  this  point. 

The  Chairman.  They  may  be  so  marked  and  entered  into  the 
record. 

(Documents  marked  "Hart  Exhibits  Nos.  6  through  12,"  respec- 
tively. See  pp.  957-963.) 

Mr.  Smith.  Was  any  further  effort  made  to  advise  people  of  the 
making  of  Molotov  cocktails  ? 

Mr.  Hakt.  Yes,  sir.  This  leaflet  was  distributed  in  Harlem.  It  was 
believed  to  be  the  leaflet  referred  to  by  William  McAdoo  and  William 
Epton  in  their  discussion  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  meeting.  It 
gives  instructions  on  how  to  make  a  Molotov  cocktail. 

On  July  21,  1964,  I  met  with  William  Epton  and  discussed  with 
him  the  making  of  the  Molotov  cocktail  leaflet.  That  meeting  was  tape 
recorded,  and  the  following  conversation  took  place. 

I  stated:  "  'Sense  me.  Dig,  what  about  the  Molotov  cocktail  leaflet? 
We  going  to  make  it,  or  what  ?" 

Epton  answered:  "Somebody  else  just  told  me  that  they're  going 
to  do  it.  It  might  be  downtown." 


942    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

I  asked :  "You  ain't  going  to  put  no  name  on  it  ?" 

He  said,  "No." 

I  stated :  "You  ain't  going  to  be  that  dumb.  Good  deal." 

He  stated :  "You  know,  I'll  tell  you  something.  This  is  the  greatest 
thing  that's  happened  in  years." 

I  said :  "You  mean  the  riot  ? " 

He  said :  "Take  it  easy." 

He  warned  me  not  to  say  too  much  about  it  because  the  rooms  could 
possibly  be  bugged. 

Mr.  Smith.  I  ask  that  this  leaflet  and  transcript  of  the  tape  record- 
ing be  introduced  as  Hart  Exhibits  Nos.  13  and  13-A,  respectively. 

The  Chairman.  It  may  be  marked  and  received. 

(Documents  marked  "Hart  Exhibits  Nos.  13  and  18-A,"  respec- 
tively. Exhibit  13-A  retained  in  committee  files.  Exhibit  No.  13  ap- 
pears on  p.  943.) 

Mr.  Smith.  When  did  you  cease  attending  Progressive  Labor  meet- 
ings? 

Mr.  Hart.  About  late  September  or  early  October  1964,  when  it  was 
decided  I  would  be  a  witness  in  a  trial  against  William  Epton. 

Mr.  Smith.  Was  Bill  Epton  later  indicted? 

Mr.  Hart,  Yes,  sir,  he  was. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  I  wish  at  this  point  to  offer  the  indict- 
ment of  William  Epton  in  New  York,  the  People  of  the  State  of  New 
York  against  William  Epton,  as  Exhibit  14. 

(Document  marked  "Hart  Exhibit  No.  14"  and  retained  in  com- 
mittee files.) 

Mr.  IcHORD.  What  were  the  charges  in  that  indictment,  Mr.  Counsel  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  I  will  read  the  charges.  He  was  indicted  for  the  follow- 
ing statement : 

"I  see  a  couple  of  stooges  in  the  audience.  A  couple  of  them  came  up  to  see  me 
at  my  headquarters  one  day  but  I'll  tell  you  about  that  some  other  time.  But  I  see 
them  in  the  audience  and  I'll  tell  them  right  now  that  we're  going  to  have  a 
demonstration  and  we  don't  say  that  it  is  going  to  be  peaceful  because  the  cops 
have  declared  war  on  the  people  of  Harlem  and  ...***  no  country  or  peo- 
ples in  the  world  that  have  had  war  declared  on  them  have  not  declared  war  on 
their  enemy.  They  declared  war  on  us  and  we  should  declare  war  on  them  and 
every  time  they  kill  one  of  us  damn  it,  we'U  kill  one  of  them  and  we  should 
start  thinking  that  way  right  now  ...***  preaching  vi  .  .  ence  [sic]  be- 
cause we  had  better  stop  talking  about  violence  as  a  dirty  word. 

*     *     * 

That  shows  you  how  this  system  is  so  interwoven,  because  you  must  under- 
stand ...***  When  they  set  up  a  state,  they  set  up  all  the  apparatus  to  pro- 
tect and  save  that  state.  They  set  up  the  courts ;  they  set  up  the  police ;  they  set 
up  the  army ;  they  set  up  an  educational  system ;  they  set  up  the  newspaper ; 
they  set  up  all  the  apparatuses  to  brainwash,  and  to  keep  up  the  subjugation. 
If  were're  going  to  be  free,  and  we  will  not  be  fully  free  until  we  smash  this 
state  completely  and  totally.  Destroy  and  set  up  a  new  state  of  our  own  choos- 
ing and  our  own  liking. 

And  in  that  process  of  smashing  this  state,  we're  going  to  have  to  kill  a  lot  of 
these  cops,  a  lot  of  these  judges,  and  we'll  have  to  go  up  against  their  army. 
We'll  organize  our  own  militia  and  our  own  army.  If  we  don't  do  it  brothers, 
you'll  be  subjugated ;  we'll  be  kept  in  chains  for  another  two  or  three  hundred 
years.  Think  about  it  because  no  people  in  this  world  have  ever  achieved  inde- 
pendence and  freedom  through  the  ballot  or  having  it  legislated  to  them.  All  peo- 
ple in  this  world  who  are  free  got  their  freedom  through  struggle  and  through 
revolution.  That's  the  only  way  to  gain  freedom." 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    943 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  13 

Bulletin  N«.  1^   July  196^ 

a^dnBHTDSHSS 
/-/ow  TO  make:  a 

MOLOTOV     COCKTAIL. 


INSTRUCTIONS: 
ANY  EMPTY  BOTTLE 

FILL  WITH  GASOLINE 
USE  RAu  AS  WICK 
LIGHT  HAG 


ANJy 


Epton  was  indicted  and  convicted  for  anarchy. 

The  Chairman.  Anarchy  ?  He  was  indicted  for  what  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Advocacy  of  criminal  anarchy. 

Mr.  Watson.  So  that  we  might  have  it  all  in  proper  context,  when 
was  he  indicted  and  what  was  the  sentence?  And  what  is  his  present 
status  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  do  not  have  that  information  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Watson.  Will  comisel  supply  that  ? 


944    SUBVERSIVE  IKFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Smith.  He  was  indicted  July  1964,  convicted  in  1965. 

Mr.  Watson.  What  is  his  present  status  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  He  has  served  his  sentence,  and  he  is  free  now. 

Mr.  Watson.  Can  the  witness  tell  us  now  where  this  man  Epton  is 
today  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  To  my  knowledge  he  is  still  in  the  New  York  City  area. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  you  then  a  witness  at  the  Epton  trial  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  I  was  a  witness. 

At  this  time  Mr.  Epton  was  convicted  of  criminal  anarchy  for  his 
activities  in  the  1964  riot  in  New  York. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  other  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment indicted  and  convicted  as  a  result  of  the  Harlem  riot? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  David  Douglas,  William  McAdoo,  Nathaniel 
Bamett,  Vivian  Anderson,  Michael  Crenovich,  Levi  Laub,  Stefan 
Martinot,  Robert  Apter,  Susan  Karp,  Jeremy  Gellis,  and  Otis  Chest- 
nut were  also  convicted. 

Mr.  Smith.  Detective  Hart,  William  Epton  claims  to  speak  for  the 
Negro  people.  As  a  Negro,  would  you  care  to  comment  on  that  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  can  only  say  that  Epton  and  people  like  him  speak 
only  for  a  small  disillusioned  segment  of  un-American  misfits — rabble- 
rousers,  who  would  like  to  see  America  fall  into  the  hands  of  com- 
munism. 

The  responsible  black  man  today  wants  a  change,  but  he  has  enough 
faith  in  this  country  to  change  it  through  the  ballot,  which  he  is  doing 
every  day.  He  has  proven  and  continues  to  prove  his  loyalty  to  this 
country — and  in  no  uncertain  terms — by  this  outstanding  record  in 
Vietnam. 

He  realizes  that  it  is  no  longer  impossible  to  become  a  black  sheriff, 
a  black  mayor,  a  black  Supreme  Court  Justice,  and  that  it  is  quite 
possible  he  can  even  be  elected  President  in  the  not  too  distant  future. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  that  concludes  the  interrogation  of  this 
witness. 

The  Chairman.  Detective  Hart,  I  want  to  take  this  opportunity 
not  only  to  thank  you  for  your  testimony,  but  congratulate  you  for 
what  is  really  extraordinary  performance  of  duty,  both  as  a  citizen 
and  police  officer. 

You  undertook  the  task  of  infiltrating  an  organization  which,  the 
evidence  clearly  indicates,  is  violence  prone.  Without  intending  any 
criticism,  I  would  say  that  many  Americans  would  not  want  to  under- 
take such  a  mission. 

In  addition  to  the  inconvenience  involved  and  the  demands  it  made 
on  your  time,  a  considerable  amount  of  personal  danger  was  clearly 
involved  in  your  work.  That,  however,  did  not  deter  you  from  per- 
forming it  andj  despite  the  possibility  of  reprisals,  from  testifying 
publicly — ^both  m  this  hearing  and  elsewhere — about  what  you  learned 
while  on  your  assignment. 

Sir,  you  are  a  credit  not  only  to  the  New  York  Police  Department, 
but  to  your  country.  You  have  my  thanks  and  the  thanks  of  all  mem- 
bers of  the  committee — particularly  since  you  have  taken  time  from 
your  vacation  to  appear  before  the  committee. 

We  are  extremely  grateful  to  you.  You  are  a  credit  to  your  country 
and  to  the  police  department. 

Mr.  Hart.  Thank  you. 


SUBVERSIVE  n^LUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    945 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  at  this  point,  I  request  a  lO-minute  recess. 
Mr.  IcHORD.  Will  the  witness  return  ?  I  have  some  questions  to  ask 
the  witness. 

The  Chairman.  Why  don't  we  take  a  recess  after  the  questions  that 
might  be  addressed  to  him,  Mr.  Smith?  Will  that  be  all  right? 
Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Detective  Hart,  the  committee  has  heard  a  great  deal 
of  testimony  in  regard  to  the  activities  of  the  Progressive  Labor  group 
over  the  past  few  years. 

I  believe  you  indicated  in  your  testimony  that  the  Progressive  Labor 
group  in  New  York  City  was  composed  of,  predominantly,  Negroes.  I 
believe  that  all  of  the  other  Progressive  Labor  groups  that  have  been 
brought  to  the  attention  of  the  committee  were  not  predominantly 
Negroes  but,  rather,  predominantly  whites. 

Did  I  misunderstand  you?  Would  you  say  that  the  Progressive 
Labor  group  in  New  York  City  is  composed  predominantly  of 
Negroes? 

Mr.  Hart.  The  Harlem  chapter  is  comprised  predominantly  of 
Negroes. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  You  were  speaking  only  of  the  Harlem  chapter? 
Mr.  Hart.  Only  of  the  Harlem  chapter. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Of  course,  it  is  always  difficult  to  establish  cause  and 
effect,  Detective  Hart.  I  am  sure  that,  as  one  who  was  right  in  the 
midst,  so  to  speak,  of  the  Harlem  riots,  that  you  would  agree  with  the 
statement  that  the  cause  of  the  Harlem  riots,  the  causes,  were  prob- 
ably many.  Is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  I  would.  I  could  not  pinpoint  one. 
Mr.  IcHORD.  Of  course,  in  order  to  create  a  not  you  have  to  have  a 
^roup  that  is  discontented.  This  discontent  can  be  because  of  real  or 
imagined  events  and  conditions. 

Let  me  ask  you  this — and  we  can  only  deal  in  opinions. 
These  riots  occurred  on  July  18,  1964,  and  July  19,  1964.  Did  they 
occur  after  that  period  of  time?  How  long  a  period  did  they  last? 
Was  it  only  a  2-day  riot? 

Mr.  Hart.  As  I  recall,  it  was  more  like  6  days — 5  or  6  days. 
Mr.  IcHORD.  About  5  or  6  days  ? 
Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  You  testified  about  the  activity  of  Mr.  Epton  and  the 
Harlem  Progressive  Labor  group.  You  testified  about  a  meeting  on 
July  18,  1964,  and  the  riots  occurring  2  hours  after  that  Progressive 
Labor  meeting,  at  which  approximately  250  people  attended. 

Is  it  your  opinion  that  this  meeting  was  the  proximate  cause 
of  the  riots  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  That  is  a  hard  question.  I  wouldn't  say  it  was  the  cause 
of  it.  It  certainly  helped  the  riots  along.  The  idea  was  there. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Of  course,  there  are  several  causes  of  a  riot.  We  all 
understand  that. 
Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Do  you  feel  that  the  riots  would  have  started  on  that 
day  if  it  had  not  been  for  the  meeting  ? 
Mr.  Hart.  No,  sir ;  I  don't  believe  so. 
Mr.  IcHORD.  That  is  all  I  have,  Mr.  Chairman. 
The  Chairman.  Mr.  Ashbrook. 


946    SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLTJENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  I  want  to  add  my  words  of  congratulation  to  you 
to  w'hat  the  chairman  has  said. 

I  will  say  that  in  the  years  I  have  been  on  this  committee,  you  are 
one  of  the  best  witnesses  we  have  had.  You  have  certainly  given  us 
more  information  on  which  we  can  follow  our  legislative  purpose 
here. 

I  congratulate  you  for  coming  here  and  for  what  you  have  told  us. 

Along  the  lines  of  what  Mr.  Ichord  mentioned,  it  is  always  hard  to 
see  the  cause  and  effect  completely  tied  together.  You  talked  in  terms 
of  guerrilla  warfare  in  the  early  part  of  your  testimony,  both  as  to 
the  advocacy  of  guerrilla  warfare — ^you  later  said  that  guerrilla  war- 
fare tactics  were  being  taught. 

At  one  later  place  you  indicated,  I  think,  that  a  man  named  Kosen 
advocated  throwing  smoke  bombs  at  the  Ross  Barnett  meeting. 

We  did  not  really  get  your  opinion  as  to  whether  or  not  some  of  the 
activities  in  the  riots  were  a  type  of  guerrilla  warfare  that  was  a 
direct  followup  to  what  had  been  advocated  and  taught  by  the  Pro- 
gressive Labor  Movement  before  the  riot  happened. 

In  your  opinion — and  I  guess  all  we  can  have  is  your  opinion — 
once  the  riots  started,  regardless  of  how  they  started,  were  some  of  the 
events  of  the  guerrilla  warfare  type  planned  in  advance  by  the  Pro- 
gressive Labor  Party  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  would  definitely  say  so. 

The  mere  fact  of  all  the  hit-and-run  tactics — Molotov  cocktails 
thrown  at  the  police  cars,  which  was  done  during  the  riots;  sniper 
shooting  from  the  rooftops;  throwing  of  various  missiles  and  runnmg 
away  clown  the  side  streets ;  etc. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Wliat  they  advocated,  what  they  talked  about  in 
advance,  of  which  you  were  a  party,  you  testify  from  direct  knowl- 
edge. You  could  not  testify  from  direct  knowledge  about  everybody  on 
every  rooftop. 

But,  in  your  opinion,  what  happened  was  a  logical  followup  of  what 
they  had  advocated  and  trained  themselves  to  do  in  advance.  So  when 
the  spark  was  there  and  started,  the  guerrilla  tactics  which  they  had 
been  talking  about  and  instructing  themselves  in,  then  in  fact  became 
a  reality. 

There  was  a  connection  in  your  opinion  between  what  they  had 
taught  and  advocated  and  what  happened  in  the  riots? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  definitely. 

Mr.  AsiiBROOK.  I  have  one  other  question. 

You  mentioned  at  one  point  that  you  had  seen  a  letter  from  Mal- 
colm X.  I  think  you  quoted  it  as  saying  it  was  Malcolm's  hope  that 
Muslims  and  PLM  could  work  together. 

Again,  in  your  opinion  or  in  your  firsthand  observations,  was  there 
any  followup  on  that?  Was  there  any  of  this  so-called  working  to- 
gether which  you  state  Malcolm  at  least  advocated  to  Mr.  Epton? 

Mr.  Hart.  Right  now,  to  the  best  of  my  recollection,  there  were 
various  letters  exchanged  between  Malcolm  X  and  William  Epton.  At 
one  or  two  meetings  there  were  joint  sponsorships.  At  one  particular 
meeting  in  the  hotel  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  was  supposed 
to  show  a  Viet  Cong  movie.  For  some  reason,  the  Muslims  couldn't  get 
a  projector.  The  film  was  not  shown. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    947 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  You  know  of  no  pact  or  working  agreement  other 
than  this  general  statement  from  Malcohn  X  that  the  two  groups  were 
together  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  No,  sir,  I  do  not. 

Mr.  AsHBRooK.  There  was  no  evidence  in  the  days  and  months  ahead 
that  there  was,  in  fact,  a  working  relationship  between  the  Muslims 
andPLM? 

Mr.  Hart.  Not  to  my  knowledge. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Thank  you. 

Those  are  all  the  questions  1  have,  ]VIr.  Chairman. 

Again,  I  want  to  thank  you  for  coming  here.  I  think  it  is  a  very 
enlightening  statement. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Watson. 

Mr.  Watson.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Chairman. 

Mr.  Hart,  I  also  want  to  commend  you,  along  with  the  chairman 
and  other  members,  for  the  most  valuable  contribution  you  have  made 
here  this  morning.  We  are  all  aware  that  it  is  not  without  personal 
sacrifice  and,  I  should  assume,  some  personal  risk  that  you  have  ap- 
peared here. 

Mr.  Hart,  is  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  or  the  Harlem  De- 
fense Council  still  in  operation  in  New  York  City  or  Harlem  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  The  Progressive  Labor  Movement  has  been  changed.  The 
name  has  been  changed.  I  believe  it  is  now  "Progressive  Labor  Party." 

The  Chairman.  What  is  the  name  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  As  far  as  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  is  concerned,  I 
really  have  no  idea  whether  it  is  in  existence.  I  have  had  no  contact 
since  1964. 

Mr.  Watson.  Can  you  tell  me  whether  or  not  that  was  just  a  vehicle 
for  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  to  help  precipitate  the  riots  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  they  had  various  vehicles  of  that  type  and  would 
put  another  name  on  it  because  they  would  ^et  greater  response. 

Mr.  Watson.  The  pattern  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  was 
to  create  or  generate  so-called  legitimate  front  organizations,  and  they 
remained  in  the  background  and  directed  these  other  organizations? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  That  was  the  basic  policy. 

You  say  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  is  still  in  operation  and  main- 
tains offices  in  New  York  City  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir,  it  does. 

Mr.  Watson.  Are  you  knowledgeable  as  to  whether  or  not  Epton 
and  some  of  the  other  names  that  you  have  given  here  today  have 
reaffiliated  with  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  or  whether  they  are  still 
active  in  it  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Epton,  I  can  say,  is  active.  As  far  as  the  others  are  con- 
cerned, I  really  don't  know. 

Mr.  Watson.  Of  course,  if  they  are  not  active,  I  assume  tharf/  others 
were  there  and  espousing  the  same  line  as  the  original  ones. 

Mr.  HL^rt.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Just  so  we  can  nail  it  dowUj  they  teach  the  violent 
overthrow  of  the  Government,  instructions  m  karate  and  guerrilla 
warfare  and  Molotov  cocktails,  and  such  as  that  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 


948    SUBVERSIVE  mrLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Watson.  The  principal  thrust  of  their  operation  is  to  exploit 
any  racial  differences  and  also  to  exploit  the  antipolice  feeluig  on  the 
part  of  so  many  people  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Those  two  areas  are  the  principal  areas  of  operations  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Additionally,  too,  I  believe  you  said  that  Chestnut  had 
a  publication  of  his  own,  a  neighborhood  publication. 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  he  did. 

Mr.  Watson.  Is  that  continuing  now  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  have  no  idea. 

Mr.  Watson.  That  was  in  existence  prior  to  his  affiliation  with  the 
Progressive  Labor  Movement,  or  was  that  an  offshoot  of  the  affiliation  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  To  my  knowledge,  it  was  a  publication  prior  to  his  affilia- 
tion with  the  organization. 

Mr.  Watson.  Are  you  aware  of  whether  or  not  the  Progressive  La- 
bor Party  has  an  organization  at  Columbia  University  ?  You  stated  it 
did  have  an  organization. 

Mr.  Hart.  Right  now  I  have  no  idea.  I  know  that  it  did. 

Mr.  Watson.  Now,  you  mentioned  repeatedly  some  six  or  seven 
names.  By  restricting  those  as  ones  in  attendance  at  various  meetings, 
we  are  not  to  conclude  that  there  were  not  other  people  there,  that  you 
just  did  not  give  the  names  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  there  definitely  were  others. 

Mr.  Watson.  The  principal  modus  operandi  of  the  Progressive  La- 
bor Movement  was  to  give  direction  and  impetus  to  these  riots,  but  was 
to  stay  in  the  background  as  much  as  possible  and  not  be  identifi^  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Are  you  aware  of  the  approximate  circulation  of  Ro- 
bert Williams'  The  Crusader  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  No,  sir ;  I  really  have  no  idea. 

Mr.  Watson.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  after  it  enters  this 
country  if  it  is  reproduced  and  circulated  in  additional  numbers  by 
Progressive  Labor  Movement  or  Revolutionary  Action  Movement? 

Mr.  Hart.  I  have  no  idea,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Are  you  familiar  with  the  RAM,  the  so-called  Revolu- 
tionary Action  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Partially. 

Mr.  Watson.  Do  they  have  an  operation  in  New  York  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  That  I  don't  know,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Nailing  it  down  just  one  more  time — the  question 
asked  by  Mr,  Ichord  and  Mr.  Ashbrook — although  we  cannot  say  that 
one  particular  thing  caused  a  riot,  can  we  not  reduce  it  to  this  answer — 
that  at  least  this  meeting  sponsored  by  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment on  July  18  was  the  triggering  device  or  the  catalyst  which 
resulted  in  the  riots  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  In  my  opinion,  definitely  so. 

Mr.  Watson.  Thank  you  very  much, 

Mr.  Ichord.  At  that  point,  of  course,  tlie  Progressive  Labor  group, 
headed  by  Epton,  was  apparently  utilizing  several  tactics  to  whip  up 
the  crowds. 

What  would  you  say  was  the  most  successful  tactic  used  by  the 
Progressive  Labor  group  ? 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    949 

Mr.  Hart.  I  would  consider  it  the  alleged  police  brutality. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  I  observe  in  one  of  the  photographs  admitted  into  the 
record  there  is  depicted  several  young  men  carrying  five  posters  of 
the  "Gilligan  Cop  Wanted  for  Murder."  Would  you  say  that  was  per- 
haps the  mosit  important  individual  device  ? 

Apparently,  that  really  whipped  the  crowd  up  considerably  the  way 
they  are  carrying  posters. 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir ;  along  with  the  police  brutality  stories. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  All  efforts  to  take  advantage  of  alleged  police  brutality  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  Detective  Hart,  would  you  have  any  idea,  within 
your  knowledge,  as  to  why  the  name  was  changed  from  the  "Pro- 
gressive Labor  Movement"  to  the  "Progressive  Labor  Party"  ? 

What  is  in  my  mind  is  that  I  wonder  if  the  idea  was  to  associate  the 
movement  closer  to  the  political  arena,  changing  it  from  "Movement" 
to  "Party." 

Mr.  Hart.  I  believe  so. 

In  conversation  with  Epton  I  was  told  that  when  the  name  of  the 
party  was  changed  from  "Movement"  to  "Party"  they  would  have  an 
influx  of  bigger  names  and  more  political  figures. 

How  the  changing  of  "Movement"  to  "Party"  was  supposed  to  do 
it,  I  don't  know,  but  they  would  become  more  national. 

The  Chairman.  In  that  connection,  do  you  know  of  any  association 
between  the  National  Conference  for  New  Politics  that  was  held  in 
Chicago  and  the  change  of  the  name  from  "Movement"  to  "Party"? 

Mr.  Hart.  No.  In  October  1964  I  didn't  have  too  much  affiliation 
with  those 

The  Chairman.  The  Chicago  incident  was  considerably  later. 

Now,  I  do  not  want  to  inject  a  political  tone  to  the  testimony.  But 
did  you  hear,  or  were  you  aware  of  the  fact,  that  there  would  be  an 
effort  made  to  sponsor  candidates  for  public  office  in  support  of  their 
operation  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Yes,  sir.  A  number  of  times  questions  would  come  up 
about  running  party  candidates  for  public  office. 

One  name  was  Genoveva  Clemente.  I  believe  she  belonged  to  the 
East  Side  Club.  They  wanted  to  run  her  for  local  office. 

Mr.  Tuck.  Could  you  identify  one  that  was  mentioned  in  connection 
with  the  political  aspect  of  this  movement  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Not  offhand,  sir,  I  cannot.  It  would  be  in  my  reports.  I 
would  prefer  to  do  that  in  executive  session. 

Mr.  Tuck.  Could  you  indicate  which  office  or  offices  were  proposed  to 
be  offered  the  candidates  ? 

Mr.  Hart.  Offhand  I  cannot  say. 

Mr.   Tuck.  Was  the  name  of  Martin  Luther  King  mentioned? 

Mr.  Hart.  Not  for  running  for  any  office. 

Mr.  Tuck.  That  is  all. 

The  Chairman.  Now  at  this  point,  the  committee  will  stand  in 
recess  for  10  minutes. 

(A  brief  recess  was  taken.) 

(Hart  Exhibits  Nos.  2  and  3  and  Nos.  6-12  referred  to  on  pp.  938 
and  941  follow:) 


950    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  2 

TRANSCRIPTION  OF  SPEECH  BY  BILL  EPTON  OF  PROGRESSIVE  LABOR  MOVE- 
MENT ON  JULY  13,  1964  at  4;00  PoMo ,  ON  LENOX  AVENUE  AT  II5TH  STREET. 

"Thank  you  Brother  Les  <,  =  .  (inaudible)  will  begin  a 
campeiigh  to  organize  a  mass  demonstration  against  the  cops 
somewhere  in  this  cityo   As  it  stands  now,  many  organizations 
are  talking  and  planning  of  where  this  demonstration  is  going  to 
take  place  and  we're  not  saying  it's  going  to  be  a  peaceful  demons- 
tration o 

I  see  a  couple  of  stooges  in  the  audienceo   A  couple  of 
them  came  up  to  see  me  at  my  headquarters  one  day  but  I'll  tell 
you  about  that  some  other  timeo   But  I  see  them  in  the  audience. 
and  I'll  tell  them  right  now  that  we're  going  to  have  a  demons- 
tration and  we  don't  say  that  it  is  going  to  be  peaceful  because 
the  cops  have  declared  war  on  the  people  of  Harlem  and  00 „ 
(inaudible)  no  country  or  peoples  in  the  world  that  have  had  war 
declared  on  them  have  not  declared  war  on  their  enemy 0   They 
declared  war  on  us  and  we  should  declare  war  on  them  and  eve'ry 
time  they  kill  one  of  us  damia  it,  we'll  kill  one  of  them  and  we 
should  start  thinking  that  way  right  now  »  ..  (inaudible)  preaching 
viooence  because  we  had ''better,  stop  talking  about  violence  as  a 
dirty  wordo   There's  two  000  (inaudible)  I'll  tell  you  all  a 
couple  more  facts  of  what  happened  to  the  so-called  Blood 
Brothers. 

The  New  York  Times  gave  us  that  name  <,  ;  (inaudible) 
anyone  of  my  black  brothers  or  sisters »   I  am  a  Blood  Brother  and 
I  don't  use  that  as  a  dirty  nameo   This  "handerchief-head" 
correspondent,  Junius  Griffin,  for  the  New  York  Times  came  to 
Harlem  and  wrote  the  story  of  four-hundred  youths  organized  to 
kill  white  people o   I  say  at  least  four-hundr,ed  is  pretty  poor 
if  they  are  organized,  because  if  they  can  oi\ly  account  for  two 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    951 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  2— Continued 

murders  in  the  whole  year,  then  that's  a  very  poor  organization. 
At  any  rate,  Junius  Griffin  said  that  this  organization,  that  this 

group  is  organized  .o  (inaudible)  this  blood,  this  so-called 
Blood  Brothers  and  where  did  he  get  this  information,  and  where 
did  he  go  to  get  this  information?  He  went  to  the  corrupt  32nd 
Precinct  to  those  corrupt  cops  and  captain  to  get  the  source  of 
information^  They  told  him  about  the  Blood  Brothers  and  all  of 
us  know  that  there  ain't  one  cop  that  ever  told  the  truth  in  his 
damn  life.  They  are  all  gangsters  and  crooks  and  thieves  and 
murderers o   They  never  told  the  truth  and  no  reason  for  us  to 
believe  that  they're  going  to  start  telling  the  ti-uth  now» 
Even  their  own  children^   All  of  these  children  of  all  of  these 
cops.  You  read  about  them  in  Long  Island  who  are  committing 
burglaries,  who  are  committing  crime  because  their  more  oo. 
(inaudible)  fathers,  are  nothing  but  gangsters,  and  they  are  just 
like  their  gangsters  fathers.   They  commit  crimes,  they're  corrupt 
and  they  are  little  gangsters.  They're  gonna  follow  in  the  foot- 
steps of  the  big  gangsters,  their  fathers,  these  corrupt  policemen. 

These  youngsters  have  been  beaten  . .    the  six  youngsters 
that  these  mothers  had,  have  been  beaten  down  in  the  House  of 
Detention.   The  mothers  sent  a  letter  to  Anna  Kross,  the  Com- 
missioner-, and  told  her  that  their  „...  (inaudible)  that  they 
protest  the  fact  that  their  children  are  being  beaten  and  tiwry 
are  protesting  the  fact  that  their  children  are  asking  f5Dr 
medical  attention,  that  they  don't  receive  it.   By  the  way,  the 
dSctor  in  the  House  of  Detention  is  a  "junkie „•*  That's  right, 
hfe  is  a  "junkie."  The  doctor  in  the  House  of  Detention  is  a 
"junkie,"  and  that's  who  supposed  to  be  treating  these  kids. 
Anna  Kross  sent  back  a  letter  to  these  mothers  and  said  it's 
not  her  responsibility  ...(inaudible)  each  individual  born  has 
the  responsibility  for  his  cousin.   So  why  does  she  have  a  job? 

-2- 
S8-083  O— 68— pt.  2 3 


952  SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS^  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  2 — Continued 
What  is  she  doing  there?   Sounds  just  like  IVlayor  Wagner,   He  said 
he  is  not  responsible  for  police  crime «   He  is  not  responsible 
for  police  corruptiono   He  is  not  responsible  for  the  mxirders 
of  policemen  ooo  ( inaudible )«   He  is  not  responsible  for  these 
run  down  tenements  oo„  (inaudible)  He  is  not  responsible  oo« 
(inaudible)  for  bad  traffic  conditions »   Not  responsible  for  those 
mothers  being  beaten  on  131st  Street  and  Fifth  Avenue,  protesting 
for  a  street  light »   He  is  not  responsible  for  anything  that 
happens  in  this  city.   If  he  is  not  responsible,  let's  get  him 
out  of  office  and  put  someone  there  who  is  responsible. 

By  the  way  brothers  and  sisters,  on  I31st  Street  and 
Fifth  Avenue,  where  the  mothers  were  protesting  for  a  street 
light,  in  the  basement  of  that  school  building  there  were  one 
hundred  cops  armed  in  the  basement  of  that  school  building  and 
who  were  they  armed  for?  They  must  have  been  armed  to  attack 
those  little  babies  and  the  mothers  who  were  demonstrating  in 
the  street o   That's  what  they  were  armed  foro   That's  the  police 
who  are  out  here  to  protect  us«   Our  reporter  for  the  "Challenge** 
newspaper  went  and  asked  the  principal,  how  did  he  ai;^.ow  these 
cops  to  be  in  the  basement  of  this  school  armed?  He  told  him,  he 
■told  the  reporter  that  ooo,  (inaudible)  to  let  the  cops  down 
there.   The  reporter  asked  him  don't  you  think  it  will  have  a 
bad  effect  on  the  children  in  the  school  to  see  cops  armed  in 
the  basement  of  a  school  house,  and  he  just  shrugged  his 
shoulders. 

That  shows  you  how  this  system  is  so  interwoven,  because 
you  must  understand  ,.,  (inaudible)  When  they  set  up  a  state, 
they  set  up  all  the  apparatus  to  protect  and  save  that  state. 
They  set  up  the  courts;  they  set  up  the  police;  they  set  up  the 
armyj  they  set  up  an  educational  system;  they  set  up  the 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING  953 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  2 — Continued 
newspaper;  they  set  up  all  the  apparatuses  to  brainwash j  and  to 
keep  up  the  subjugation^   If  we're  going  to  be  free,  and  we  will 
not  be  fully  free  until  we  smash  this  state  completely  and  totally. 
Destroy  and  set  up  a  new  state  of  our  own  choosing  and  our  own 
liking » 

And  in  that  process  of  smashing  this  state,  we're  going 
tb  have  to  kill  a  lot  of  these  cops,  a  lot  of  these  judges,  and 
we'll  have  to  go  up  against  their  army«   We'll  organize  our  own 
militia  and  our  own  armyo   If  we  don't  do  it  brothers,  you'll 
be  subjugated;  we'll  be  kept  in  chains  for  another  two  or  three 
htindi*ed  years-.  Think  about  it  because  no  people  in  this  world 
have  ever  achieved  independence  and  freedom  through  the  ballot 
or  having  it  legislated  to  them.   All  people  in  this  world  who 
are  free  got  their  freedom  through  struggle  and  through  revo- 
lution.  That's  the  only  way  to  gain  freedom. 

The  next  speaker  this  afternoon  will  be  the  treasurer  of 
the  Mothers  Defense  Committee,  who  will  tell  you  about  the  Mothers 
Defense  Committee  and  will  also  tell  you  about  her  son,  Mrs.  Daniel 
Hamm. " 


954    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  3 

THE  FOLLOWING  IS  A  TRANSCRIPT  OF  A  SPEECH  MADE  BY  V/ILLIAM  EFTON  ON 
JULY  18,  196/.,  AT  APPROXIMATELY  5:15  P.M.  AT  LENOX  AVENUE  AND  II5TH 

STREET 

Th- ak  you  Mrs.  Hamm.  As  you  can  see  brothers  and  sisters 
that.  tht:i>   lothers,  these  mothers  might  have  been  just  ordinary 
houses   .  trying  to  raise  their  children  in  this  ghetto,  but  after 
thi.     ai;.mi,  and  this  is  my  experience,  that  we  know  black  women 
can  :.  ve  and  that  black  women  have  ..  (inaudible  for  15  seconds)  .. 
not  or.]y  for   these  kids'  freedom  but  freedom  for  .«.  (inaudible)  .. 
not  onl.  here  in  Harlem,  but  in  Mississippi  and  St.  Augustine  and 
Jackrn'/iviiie  and  Jaokaon,  because  It's  all  the  sane  wherever  blaek  > 
pecpl<i;  are  there*  s  oppression.  Some  of  these  black  cops  are  under  the 
impr-;s5iun  that  in  following  tkeit*  dictates  of  their  white  masters 
that  tney  are  going  to  be  spared.  Many  Jews  in  Germany  who  supported 
Hitler  also  thought/vthey  were  going  to  be  spared.  When  Hitler  cane 
into  power. „when  Hitler  came  into  power  he  destroyed  six  aillion 
Jews.  The  same  thing  will  happen  to  all  of  you  black  cops. when  these 
white  fascists  take  over  the  government.  That  little  tin  badge  that 
you  have,  and  you  can  tell  them  I'm  your  brother,  I'm  like  you,  I 
have  a  blue  uniform  on.  That  blue  uniform  that  you  have  on  will  show 
your  red  blood  because  they'll  turn  on  you  just  like  they  turn  00 
your  brothers  and  sisters  on  the  street.  This  one  to  my  right,  th* 
policeman  on  my  right  in  his  plain  clothes.  To  my  left  is  a  Puerto 
Rican  policeman  in  plain  clothes.  I'm  talking  to  him  too.  If  he 
don't  know  the  history  of  Puerto  Rico  and  how  the  American  imperialiSB 
killed  and  brutalized  his  people  in  Puerto  Rico  just  like  they  did 
the  black  men  in  Africa,  then  he  had  better  wake  up  because  they  will 
turn  on  him  when  they  come  into  power  and  kill  him  and  brutalise 
him  just  like  they  did  Albizu  Campos  the  great  Puerto  Rican  leader. 
Just  like  they're  doing  to  all  black  people,  and  he's  not  safe.  So 
I  tell  him  now  and  I  tell  my  black  brother  on  my  right  that  they  had 
better  choose  their  sides.  Because  when  the  deal  goes  down,  when 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING  955 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  3 — Continued 
the  deal  is  finished  sister  he  will  have  to  go  too  unless  he  chooses 
the  right  side.  There  is  only  one  right  side.  That's  our  side. 
That's  the  cause  of  the  people  and  what  we  demand  and  what  we  will 
get.  What  we  will  take.  We  will  take  our  freedom.  We  will  take  it 
by  any  mean   necessary  and  any  means  necessary  as  we  know  the  beast 
that  we   e  dealing  with  is  that  we  have  to  create  a  revolution  in 
this  :o;-v  r.ry  and  we  will  create  a  new  government  that  is  run  by  the 
peop .e. . .that  is  run  by  the  black  people  and  some  of  the  poor  white 
people  who  are  catching  hell  too.  Because  there  are  a  lot  of  poor 
white  people  who  are  catching  hell  and  they  don't  know  it  yet  but  if 
thay  dor.  t  Join  with  us  when  the  deal  goes  dovm  we  don't  have  tine  to 
wait  for  them.  We  are  going  to  roll  on,  we  are  going  to  roll  on  to 
freedom  and  independence  and  liberation.  Those  who  are  ready  to  come 
with  us  and  stand  with  us  and  join  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  to  help 
protect  Ghe  mothers  and  protect  our  streets  and  our  neighborhoods 
they  will  give  their  money  to  these  mothers  who  have  joined  together 
to  save  thsir  sons.  They  will  go  back  into  their  blocks  and  organize 
their  blocks  into  defense  committees  so  when  the  deal  goes  through 
they  will  be  able  to  be  in  the  street  tens  of  thousands  strong  ready 
to  face  that  man.   And  we  know  how  to  use  weapons  just  like  they 
know  how  to  use  weapons.  And  when  the  deal  goes  down  we  have  to  be 
ready  to  confront  thera  and  beat  them.  I  tell  you  brothers  and  sisters 
the  message  that  we  are  carrying  they  will  carry  around  Harlem  on 
every  corner  every  Saturday  3  =  00  to  6:00  P.M.  to  enlighten  our  people, 
to  organize  our  people  and  to  make  our  people  aware  of  the  fact  of 
what  is  happening  with  these  six  youngsters  and  to  make  our  people 
aware  of  the  fact  that  in  order  for  us  to  achieve  our  freedom  and 
independence  we  must  organize  and  fight  this  beast  and  destroy  him. 
Next  week  we  will  probably  be  on  llA-th  Street  and  Eighth  Avenue  and 
from  there  we  will  go  down  Eighth  Avenue  and  up  Seventh  Avenue  and 
on  and  on  until  all  of  our  people  get  the  message.  In  order  to  be 
prepared  for  this  demonstration  that  we  are  going  to  organize  follow 
it  in  Challenge  Newspaper  because  we  will  give  you  the  details  In 


956  SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Hart  Exhibit  No.  3 — Continued 
the  newspaper.  We  will  tell  you  where  we  will  be,  how  we  will  be, 
when  we  will  be,  and  what  methods  we  are  going  to  use  to  stop  these 
cops.  That  should  be  our  slogan  -  Stop  the  cops.  Our  second  slogan 
should  be  -  ^rae   the  Harlem  six  -  because  they  are  the  product  of 
these  cor'  pt  policemen »  Stop  the  cops  and  free  the  Harlem  six. 
That  sho'ilJ  ba  our  slogan.  We  should  get  into  everybody's  mind,  into 
everyboay's  heart  in  our  community,  that  we  have  to  stop  the  cops 
and  T,here'll  be  no  more  Harlem  sixes.  We  also  have  here,  brothers  and 
sisters,  who  just  walked  up,  the  picture  I  showed  you  here  earlier. 
Billie  Brazier,  v/ho,  what  happened  to  him  in  the  32nd  Pet,  I  don't 
know  if  Billie  could  say  a  few  words,  say  a  few  words  to  you  and  t«ll 
you  what  happened  to  him  in  the  32nd  Precinct.  Billie  Brazier. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    957 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  6 


r 


'yj 


L 


\\. 


y 


In  school   they   say  the   cope   are   around  to   "protect" 
you.      They   say  the   copa  are   around  to  help  you  and  they're   on 
your  side.      But  yesterday  the   cops   tau^t   the   people   a   lesson 
ir.   •Che   stre©^  They  taught   us   thpt   they're  here   to   shoot   down 
15  year  old  boys   in  cold   blood.      They're   here   to  beat   us   up 
when  we  protest  their  murders. 

This   is   not   the   first   act   of  «urder  by  Murphy's   copsi 
Maxinino,    Solero,    Rodriguez, Francisco  Rodriguez  Jr., Mrs. 
Caraen  Sierra  Montero.Willian  Westbrock,    and  Ralph  Braz^ier 
have    all    been  shot    and   killed   by   trigger-happy  patrolmen, 
within   the    lost    eight   months. 

None    of   the   victims   77^3   carrying   a   gun.    All    of 
them  were    Negroes    and   Puerto   Ricans. 

Ail   the   killer  cops  hav»   bei^n  cleared   by  the  City, 
and  May  r  Wagner  has  given  Mui-phy   a  raise   of   110,000  bloody 
dollarsi 

hOvv     h/iiv/    (']Ofs£    tu^LCT- 


tsiD 


'V      Cc'J:>\r^      .j.J\UU      IT    TPiK 


958    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  7 


Lr.Gt  nisht  police   fro"  ?!}    over  t  ho   city  declared  WJl  ON  HARLEM, 

A  j.arg3  crovrd  0  f  NofTo  people,   protesting  tho  racist  murder  of 
15-year-cld  Jnmcs  Powell,   de-ionstro.ted  in  front  of  the   28th  iDreclnct  , 
Nearly  50  demonctrntors  "C'oire  drag.^cd,   bep.tcn,    and  arrested,  as  thoy 
attcmoted  to   enter  the  police   otation  to  demand  the  arrest  of  murderer 
Lieutenant  Thomas  G-llllj^pji. 

The   crowds  r;ere    shoved  out  o^  the  block  bi:t  rorcroupcd  around 
123   St.   and  ?th  Ave.      Tempers  flared  as  the   Tactical  Police  Force 
thrcateivd,    abused  and  continued  to  push  the  peonle  aroynd. 

Z'r  .    people  fought  b9.clc  in  the  only  vay  they  co\ild.     Bottles, 
cans,    stones  and  raolotov  cocktails  were  hurled  at  the   copo  from  the 
cjorners  and  the   roof   tops. 

The  Gcsta-T-.o-llhe  cops   shot   at  and  brutalized  Innocent  bystanders. 


oc 


ONE^ 


Next  time    (and  It  v/lll   come)   we,    the  people,   must  be  better 

organized  to  deal  ^vith  the  Onomy. 

Attend  the  funeral  of  Jpjces  Powell  ?t  Levy  &  Delany  Funeral  Hore 
2250  7th  Ave.   at  8  p.m.    tonight. 

Then   come   to   a  meeting  at    the  tIARLEM  PROGRESSIVE  LABOR  CLUB 
(see  address. below)    after  the  funeral   services.   Those  of  you  who  pro- 
test  the  war  of  genocide  being  wared  on  black  people,    should  attend 
■C^ils  rneetihg. 

ORGANIZED  \m  '.ULL   .7INl 


Issuea  by:   hprlem  ProTresnive  ^abor  Club 
336  Lenox  Ave.    (127  St.) 
FI  8-2254 


Read-CHALLENGEl 


^^  — 


l^i'  <u^ 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    959 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  8 


JOIN  THE  MASS  DEKONSTRATION  SATURDAY,  JULY  2S .   Starting  at  4  P.M. 
at  116th  Street  Lenox  Ave. 


960    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  9 


HARLELI  DEFENSE  COUNCIL 

336  Lenox  Ave . 
New  York,  N.Y. 


f^C    /^ 


July  15,1964 


Dear  Member; 

A  number  of  events  have  taken  plpce  In  and  around  our 
community  In  the  l-ist  couple  of  weeks  that  makes  a  meeting  of 
our  conmlttce  extremely  Important: 

1.  The  frame-up  of  the  "Harlem  Six"  continues. 

2.  Those  youn.^sters  are  s-tlll  being  beaten  In  prison. 

3.  Fre'die  Frazlcr,  15  years  old,  was  thro'vn  back  Into  Jail 
desDlte  the  fact  thpt  he  was  out  on  ball. 

4.  The  police  are  contlnu  tog  their  war  against  the  people  of 

Harlem — v/lth  beatings,  ffame-ups,  and  murders. 

5.  Fcur  youn,^  plrls,  betv'een  the  ages  of  14  and  16  were 
DubT)oenp3d  by  the  District  Attorney. to  aonoar  before 

a  grand  Jury.   The  purpose  v;ag  to  Intlmldsto  those  young 
.  glris  Into  signing  false  statements. 

6.  A  young  (15  years  old)  Negro  youth  wa!=!  shot  to. death  by 
an  off  duty  cop  this  afternoon  on  East  76th  Street.  The 
cop   shot  the  kid  once.  He  fell  to  the  ground.  The  cop 
then  stood  over  him  and  fired  two  more  shots  into  him, 
and  then  ho  kicked  the  kid  after  he  was  dead. 

This  Is  only  part  of  the  story,  brothers  and  sisters. 
There  Is  a  lot  more  that  Is  not  being  told. 

You  showed  a  particular  Interest. and  concern  by  sign- 
ing up  to  Join  the  Harlem  Defense  Council — an  organization  dedicat- 
ed to  defending  cur  community . and  our  people. 

The  Time  for  us  to  begin  to  act  is  NOWl  If  we  do  not 
stop  this  terror  pgalnst  our  community  there  may  not  be  many  of 
us  left  at  the  rate  the  cops  are  murdering  ug. 

C0J.1E  TO  TliE  NEXT  LffiETING  OF  THE  HARLEM  DEFENSE  COUNCIL; 

WEDNESDAY    -      JULY    22ND  AT     8  P.M. 

AT       P.  L.M.  HEADQUARTERS'        336  LENOX-  AVE, 

ALSO__COME   TO  OUR  \VSSKLY  STREET  MEETING.      THIS  SATURDAY  IT  WILL  BE 
HELD  FROI/:  3   TO  6  ? ." .   on  114  Street   and  LENOX  AVENUE. 


Fraternally, 

3m     Entnn    ^ 


Bill  Epton 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    961 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  10 

THE  BLACK  PEOPLE  OF  HARLEM  have  historically  Been 
terrorized  by  the  police  dept.  of  New  York.  We  have  been 
brutalized,  maimed  and  murdered  by  these  police.  We,  the 
people  of  Harlem,  in  order  to  partly  alleviate  these  conditions 


DEI^AND       ^-^ 


1.  The  immediate  arrest  and  prosecution  of  police  Lf.  Gilligan  for  first  degreeffjjjLrffPr. •'■  KiciaiL 

2.  That  the   City  convene  public  grand  juries  to  investigate  police  brutality  against  Negroes^ 
and  Puerto  Ricans  in  New  York  City. 

3.  That  the  grand  jury  hearings  not  be  closed  until  every  person  who  has  made  application 
to  appear  as  witnesses  has  been  heard. 

4.  That  a  transcript  of  the  proceedings  be  made  a  matter  of  public  record  and  that  printed 
copies  of  the  complete  proceedings  be  made  available  to  all  citizens. 

5.  That  indictments  be  drawn  up  as  a  result  of  testimony  of  the  above-mentioned  witnesses 
to  specific  instances  of  police  brutality;  that  these  indictments  be  brought  against  both  city 
officials  and  police  officials  who  are  responsible  for  police  terror  against  Negroes  and  Puerto 
Ricanti  in  Now  York  City. 

6.  Our  constilutlonul  rights  to  assemble  and  demonstrate  peacefully  without  harassment, 
brutality,  murder,  and  general  terror  from  the  police  department  It  was  the  violation  of  our 
rights  to  assemble  peacefully,  by  the  brutal  action  of  the  police,  which  precipitated,  the  present 
crisis  in  Harlem.  At  the  moment  the  people  of  Harlem  are  held  in  captivity  by  thousands  of 
policemen  fur  the  sole  reason  that  they  sought  to  peacefully  assemble  and  protest  the  conditions 
of  life  in  Hurlem. 

7.  Our  constitutional  right  to  tiefend  ourselves  by  any  means  necessary. 

8.  That  fair  compensation  should  be  made  to  all  persons  who  suffered  injuries  and  loss  of 
income  as  a  result  ol  police  brutality;  also  compensation  should  be  made  to  those  people  who 
were  arrested  and  detained  by  the  police  and  who  therefore  suffered  a  loss  of  income. 

9.  The  withdrawal   of  all   police  who  are  not  regularly  assigned  to  the  precincts  in  Harlem. 

10.  That  the  City  uphold  the  right  of  all  citizens  who  live  in  slum  dwellings  to  withhold  their 
rent   until   these  dwellings  are  brought   up  to  those  standards  met  by  the  City  Housing  Code. 

THE  MkSS  DEimONSTRATION 

Up  Lenox  Ave.    Saturday^  July  25fh 

4  P.M.,  at  116th  Street  and  Lenox  Avenue 

HARLEM  DEFENSE  COUNCIL 

336  Lenox  Ave.  FI  8-2254 


962    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  1 1 

WANTED 

FOR 
MURDER 


(.lU.IGAiN,  THE  COF 

iJciit.  'Diotiia^  <>illi^an  o^'TTk'  11-th  Divi.^oi 


HARLEM  DEFENSE  COUNCIL 

I  i-n-i>2r>i 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    963 


Hart  Exhibit  No.  12 
[Life  magazine,  July  31,  1964,  page  16] 


964    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  come  to  order. 

Proceed,  Counsel. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  on  June  8  and  9, 1965,  Mr.  Phillip  Abbott 
Luce  testified  before  this  committee  in  executive  session.  Mr.  Luce  was 
a  member  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  from  approximately  July 
1964  until  January  1965. 

On  the  same  dates  Miss  Judith  Warden  also  testified  before  the 
committee  in  executive  session.  She  was  a  member  of  the  Progressive 
Labor  Party  from  June  1964  until  January  1965. 

The  Chairman.  And,  unlike  the  previous  witnesses,  they  were  ide- 
ological members,  were  they  not,  of  the  PLM  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  As  I  recall,  Mr.  Luce  took  part  in  the  unlawful 
travel  to  Cuba. 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  And  testified  before  this  committee  very  arrogantly, 
did  he  not  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  I  understand  that  he  has  had  a  change  of  heart  and 
has  been  quite  cooperative  with  this  committee.  Is  that  not  true? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  His  testimony  to  which  you  refer  is  along  the  lines 
of  cooperative  rather  than  antagonistic  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  That  is  right. 

The  Chairman.  How  do  you  wish  to  handle  it  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  On  October  24,  1967,  the  committee  voted  to  make  pub- 
lic certain  parts  of  their  testimony  which  were  pertinent  to  the  present 
inquiry  so  that  they  could  be  made  a  part  of  this  hearing  record. 

With  your  permission,  Mr.  Chairman,  I  will  now  call  Mr.  McNa- 
mara,  staff  director  of  the  committee,  to  the  witness  stand  to  read  the 
responses  these  witnesses  made  to  certain  of  the  questions  asked  them 
during  their  appearance  on  June  8  and  9,  1965. 

Th  Chairman.  That  will  be  followed.  May  I  ask  the  general 
question :  I  take  it,  then,  that  probably  the  testimony  to  be  read  into 
the  record  will  be  fairly  corroborative  of  Detective  Hart,  will  it  not, 
as  to  the  Harlem  riots  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Yes,  sir.  I  suggest  I  read  the  questions  and  that  Mr 
McNamara  read  the  replies. 

He  will  start  with  an  introductory  statement. 

STATEMENT  OF  FRANCIS  J.  McNAMARA 

Mr.  McNamara.  This  is  the  testimony  of  Phillip  Luce  on  June  8 : 

*  *  *  from  the  time  I  became  acquainted  with  Progressive  Labor  through  my 
stay  in  it,  and  certainly  while  I  was  a  member  of  the  national  coordinating 
committee,  it  was  constantly  stressed  that  one  of  the  key  functions  in  the 
philosophy  of  Progressive  Labor  was  direct  confrontation  of  the  power  struc- 
ture, be  it  on  the  campuses  as  in  the  case  of  the  May  2nd  Movement,  or  the  city 
streets  as  can  be  evidenced  from  the  Harlem  riots  or  the  demonstrations  in 
Times  Square. 

The  idea  behind  this  is  that  if  you  can  take  young  people  and  get  them  into 
the  streets  or  get  them  demonstrating  on  a  campus  against  the  power  structure 
and  the  police  move  in,  in  an  attempt  to  break  up  the  demonstration  or  arrest 
the  students,  and  these  studens  are  confronted  with  police  power  or  the  power 
of  the  campus  administration,  the  students  will  then  see  the  American  Govern- 
ment in  action  and  will  fig'ht  it  back.  Since  Progressive  Labor  espouses  a  philo- 


SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    965 

sophical  position  of  non-nonviolence,  that  is,  violence  when  confronted  with 
power,  it  was  constantly  contended  that,  if  the  younger  people  fight  back  against 
the  police  directly,  this  will  begin  to  develop  within  them  a  revolutionary 
conscience  and  this  conscience  will  ultimately  be  used  in  a  revolutionary  situation 
in  this  country. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Where  does  the  "police  brutality"  come  in  again?  Will  you  elaborate  on  that — 
that  it  would  give  an  opportunity  to  fight  back  against  it,  that  the  state  is  being 
oppressive? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

It  certainly  would.  I  think  the  best  example  of  that  would  not  only  be  in 
numerous  leaflets  put  out  by  the  organization  such  as  the  one  which 
begins  "Fight  Police  Brutality,"  but  also  the  organizing  by  Progressive 
Labor  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  wherein  karate  is  taught  to  the  mem- 
bers, wherein  members  are  told  that  if  the  police  attempt  to  break  up  demon- 
strations or  gatherings  in  Harlem,  they  will  fight  back ;  the  fact  that  numerous 
members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  organization  had  been  trained  in  karate ;  the 
fact  that  last  summer,  prior  to  and  following  the  Harlem  riots,  guns  were  shipped 
into  New  York  City  by  members  of  Progressive  Labor ;  the  fact  that  we  were  at 
one  point  broken  up  into  small  cadres  of  people  to  be  trained  in  the  use  of  guns 
and  explosives ;  the  fact  that  members  of  Progressive  Labor  are  prepared  at  this 
moment  to  go  underground  at  the  given  signal  to  receive  training  abroad  in  the 
use  of  spy  techniques  and  explosive  techniques,  the  use  of  guns,  and  so  on  and  so 
forth. 

So  it  is  not  just  a  philosophical  contention  on  the  part  of  the  Progressive  Party 
that  a  revolution  is  necessary,  but  they  have  taken  action  in  that  area. 

Regarding  police  brutality  or  actually  regarding  the  Harlem  Defense  Council 
of  which  I  spoke  earlier :  in  Challenge,  the  paper  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment, issue  of  April  27,  1965,  on  the  front  page  is  a  picture  of  the  new  head- 
quarters of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  where  it  says,  "Youth  Learn  Self-De- 
fense."  The  picture  shows  the  name  of  the  "Harlem  Defence  Council"  in  the 
windows.  It  has  a  raised  fist  underneath  the  word,  "Self  Defence" 

The  Chairman.  Do  I  understand  the  words  "self-defense"  in  that 
respect  are  used  m  the  context  of  aggressive  action  if  necessary? 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  would  be  my  interpretation  based  on  this 
testimony,  Mr.  Chairman.  [Continues  reading :] 

and  beside  that  it  says,  "KETSUGO  DOJO  H.D.C.,"  meaning  Harlem  De- 
fense Council.  KETSUGO  is  a  karate  te'-m.  DOJO  means  the  place  where  karate 
is  taught.  So  they  are  actively  teaching  karate  now,  and  this  picture  here  ad- 
vertises that  fact. 

******* 
Challenge,  the  copy  of  which  was  passed  out  earlier  referring  to  police  terror 
in  Harlem  [issue  of  July  25,  1964],  was  certainly  a  key  to  the  continuation  of 
the  riots  in  Harlem.  The  other  thing  that  Progressive  Labor  did  to  keep  the 
rioting  going  in  Harlem  was  the  issuance  of  a  i)Oster.  The  poster  was  approxi- 
mately the  same  size  as  this  newspaper  printed  by  the  Tri-Line  Offset  Com- 
pany. The  "Wanted  for  Murder — Gilligan,  the  Cop"  ix)ster,  thousands  of  which 
were  distributed  throughout  Harlem,  was  one  of  the  keys  used  by  really  the 
mobs  in  the  street.  A  picture  in  Life  magazine  following  the  Harlem  riots  showed 
a  number  of  young  rioters  marching  down  the  street  carrying  this  poster  of 
"Wanted  for  Murder" 

The  Chairman.  That  is  a  remarkable  parallel  to  the  testimony  of 
Detective  Hart. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Continues  reading :] 

A  real  insight  is  given  into  the  role  of  Progressive  Labor  in  the  Harlem  riots 
in  material  published  by  Progressive  Labor  itself.  In  October  of  1964  there 
was  a  meeting  of  the  national  coordinating  committee  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement,  the  minutes  of  which  were  published  for  exclusive  use  of  the  mem- 
bership in  Pre-Convention  Discussion  Bulletin  #2.  These  minutes  were  pub- 
lished under  the  title  "The  Black  Liberation  Struggle  and  the  Right  to  Revolu- 
tion." In  this  Mr.  William  McAdoo,  who  was  at  that  time  a  leader  of  the  Harlem 


966    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Defense  Ck)uncil  and  whose  name  appears  on  the  "Wanted  for  Murder"  poster, 
was  speaking  and  he  says  in  part,  and  I  quote : 

"and  I  would  like  for  that  reason  to  talk  about  Harlem — the  period  from  the 
18th  of  July  to  the  25th  of  July.  In  that  period  we  made  a  lot  of  mistakes,  and 
we  did  a  lot  of  things  that  were  correct.  We  gained  a  small  victory  and  a  big 
defeat.  The  main  reason  was  because  there  was  no  concept  of  the  relationship  of 
forces  there.  We  had  the  opportunity  to  bring  multitudes  of  i)eople  close  to  ust— 
not  just  in  Harlem" 

The  Chairman.  Who  is  saying  this  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  This  is  a  statement  by  William  McAdoo  which  ap- 
pears in  an  offioi  al  document. 

The  Chairman.  The  identification  was  made  by  the  previous  wit- 
ness on  a  photograph  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  is  right. 

These  words  are  from  the  official  document  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Party.  [Continues  reading :] 

"We  had  the  opportunity  to  bring  multitudes  of  people  close  to  us — ^not  just 
in  Harlem,  but  in  Bedford- Stuyvesant,  Jamaica,  etc.  Had  we  had  the  program, 
and  skill  in  organizing.  We  failed.  The  unity  committee  joined  with  the  ruling 
class  and  opposed  us — but  there  were  people  who  wanted  to  line  up  with  us — ^to 
come  down  and  demonstrate  with  us.  *  *  *" 

A  little  further  on  he  says :  "We  didn't  organize  at  that  moment — and  the  idea 
of  organizing  at  such  movement"  [this  word,  apparently,  should  be  "moment"] 
"is  alien  to  the  left.  They" — meaning  the  left — "accepted  it  as  a  riot,  and  not  a 
rebellion.  They  helped  strip  it  of  any  justification  and  dignity.  We  didn't  get  the 
support  we  needed  and  could  have  gotten  even  from  the  East  Side  Club.  *  *  *" 

Now  regarding  this  help  from  the  East  Side  Club,  at  that  time,  it  was  proposed 
that  during  the  Harlem  riots  the  Progressive  Labor  Club  on  the  East  Side  create 
demonstrations  of  violent  nature  in  order  to  pull  the  police  down  from  Harlem, 
have  to  cope  with  what  was  going  on  in  the  East  Side.  Alice  Jerome,  the  mother 
of  Fred  Jerome  and  the  leader  of  the  East  Side  Club,  goes  on  to  say  in  this  same 
Pre-Oonvention  Discussion  Bulletin,  at  the  same  meeting  of  the  national  coordi- 
nating committee,  in  regard  to  the  demonstrations  in  the  Lower  East  Side,  the 
following : 

"There  was  a  time  when  we  could  have  gone  along  with  and  participated  in  and 
helped  to  stimulate  a  much  more  widespread  uprising  on  the  lower  east  side,  as 
part  of  our  expression  of  support  and  solidarity  to  what  was  going  on  in  Harlem, 
and  we  didn't  do  it,  and  we  very  consciously  didn't  do  it.  We  tried  to  evaluate 
our  position  in  the  community,  as  to  who  would  go  with  us  and  who  wouldn't, 
and  we  felt  that  the  main  support  for  the  anti-police  uprising  that  was  imminant 
[sic]  on  3rd  street  where  we  were  having  our  street  meetings  were  not  the  Puerto 
Rican  people  of  that  community — we  knew  the  kids  very  well,  who  belonged  to  a 
couple  of  gangs  on  the  east  side,  who  came  to  our  meeting  with  their  stickballs 
bats  and  everything,  really  ready  for  action — we  did  not  go  ahead.  We  said  to 
them,  we're  going  to  give  as  much  support  as  possible  to  Harlem,  but  we're  not 
going  to  make  it  a  provocation.  They  went  along  with  it.  We  can  analyze 
this — did  we  just  chicken  out?  Why  didn't  we  go  ahead  with  it — was  it  because 
we  were  just  scared,  because  we  weren't  ready  to  give  enough  support  to  Harlem? 
Were  we  correct  in  feeling  that  we  didn't  have  enough  of  the  community  with 
us,  to  really  carry  on  something  that  would  have  been  significant?  We  felt  that 
we  could  not  carry  an  action  through  with  any  kind  of  success  or  value,  other 
than  a  blood  bath." 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

What  does  Progressive  Labor  do  when  it  is  confronted  with  a  situation  where 
it  looks  like  they  are  going  to  have  a  peaceful  rally  on  the  street? 

Mr.  MoNamara.  [Reads:] 

It  would  vary.  From  the  Lower  East  Side  I  have  spoken  at  uteetings  where 
police  who  were  in  the  vicinity  were  constantly  challenged  to  attempt  to  come 
over  and  try  to  break  it  up.  I  have  spoken  at  meetings  in  the  Lower  East  Side 
where  people  have  been  told  to  buy  a  shotgun  and  if  the  police  attempt  to  enter 
their  homes,  to  open  fixe  on  the  police.  Certainly  the  demonstrations  in  Times 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLTJENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    967 

Square  show  that  when  a  peaceful  demonstration  can  be  turned  into  a  violent 
demonstration  which  will  give  publicity  to  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  or  to 
the  May  2nd  Movement,  any  means  will  be  used  to  create  that  violence. 

Generally,  however,  at  least  at  the  moment,  Progressive  Labor  is  so  tied  up 
in  legal  cases,  Bill  Epton  being  under  indictment  for  criminal  anarchy  and  a 
number  of  people  in  New  York  being  under  indictment  for  criminal  contempt,  the 
meetings  that  they  are  holding  now  have  calmed  down  considerably. 

Mr.  Watson.  I  understand  that  this  is  the  testimony  of  Phillip 
Luce,  and  perhaps  it  is  inappropriate  for  me  to  interrupt  here,  but 
when  you  make  reference  to  East  Side  Club,  and  so  forth,  or  rather 
the  witness  did,  is  it  your  understanding  that  he  is  referring  to  youth 
groups,  or  is  he  referring  to  the  East  Side  Club  of  the  Progressive 
Labor  Movement,  or  what  ? 

Mr.  MgNamara.  He  is  referring,  Mr.  Watson,  as  other  sections  of  his 
testimony  make  very  clear,  to  the  East  Side  Club  of  the  Progressive 
Labor  Party.  It  was  another  unit  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party. 

Mr.  Watson.  Thank  you. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

Will  you  tell  us  very  briefly  what  are  the  subsidiaries  or  affiliates  of  the 
Progressive  Labor  Movement?  I  am  not  talking  about  the  clubs,  and  so  forth, 
but  the  instruments.  Can  you  name  those  and  tell  us  what  their  purpose  and 
function  are? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Eeads:] 

Yes,  sir.  The  front  groups  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  would  include  the 
May  2nd  Movement,  of  which  we  spoke  yesterday ;  the  Student  Committee  for 
Travel  to  Cuba,  which  was  a  group  formed  by  Progressive  Labor  with  the  in- 
tent of  sending  those  people  to  Cuba  in  violation  of  1185(b)  U.S.C.  22,  I  think, 
or  22  U.S.C. ;  the  Harlem  Defense  Councils,  of  which  we  spoke  some  yesterday, 
which  are  self-defense,  so-called,  groups  formed  in  Harlem,  and  the  most 
recent  one  is  the  Committee  to  End.  Resistance — the  Committee  to  Defend  Re- 
sistance to  Ghetto  Life. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

You  better  do  that  again. 

Mr.  MoNamara.  [Reads :] 

Committee  to  Defend  Resistance  to  Ghetto  Life,  which  goes  under  the  call 
letters  CBRGE,  C-E-R-G-E. 

Another  outfit  was  formed  on  the  West  Coast  for  a  while  called  COBRA, 
C-0-B-R-A,  which  was  the  Committee  on  Black  Revolutionary  Action.  I  do  not 
believe  that  is  still  in  existence,  however.  There  are  smaller  groups  such  as  the 
Integrated  Workers  Organization  on  the  Lower  East  Side. 

I  want  to  say  also  a  Puerto  Rican  group  was  formed  in  Brooklyn,  the  name 
of  which  I  don't  know. 


Mr.  Smith,   [Reads:] 

How  about  the  Tri-Line  Offset  Company?  You  mentioned  that  as  publishing 
two  of  the  papers. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

Yes,  sir.  The  Tri-Line  Publishing  Company  is  controlled  by  Progressive  Labor 
and  it  was  set  up  to  do  the  printing  for  the  organization. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

And  the  Mothers  Defense  Committee,  is  that  connected  with  the  PLM? 

88-083  O — 68— pt.  2 4 


968    SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Eeads:] 

Yes. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

In  what  fashion? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

It  is  a  less  obvious  front  group  than  the  rest  of  them.  It  was  formed  in  an 
attempt  to  supposedly  raise  money  for  the  defense  of  a  group  of  six  young  men 
arrested  in  Harlem  for  the  murder  of  a  white  storekeeper.  However,  the  Mothers 
Defense  Committee  has  raised  little  money  and,  instead,  put  up  a  strong  propa- 
ganda barrage  against  the  police  tactics  in  Harlem. 


Mr.  Smith.   [Reads:] 

Mr.  Luce,  while  on  that  subject,  let  me  ask  you  a  very  practical  question.  Tell 
us  whether  or  not  the  interest  and  efforts  in  connection  with  the  Negroes  of 
PLM,  as  you  understood  them  and  saw  them  first-hand,  was  actually  to  help  the 
lot  of  the  Negro  people,  or  was  it  to  use  them  as  an  instrumentality  of  the  basic 
effort  of  the  organization  to  overthrow  this  Government  and  start  a  new  govern- 
ment and  a  new  country? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

Progressive  Labor  has  done  very  little  in  any  attempt  to  help  any  minority 
group.  It  was  offered  at  one  time  within  the  Movement  by  some  of  the  younger 
people  that  it  would  be  a  value  if  the  Movement  attempted  to  do  such  things  as 
set  up  nursery  schools  in  the  Lower  East  Side,  would  attempt  to  show  people 
how  to  paint  their  houses,  and  so  on  and  so  forth,  a  practical  work  program. 

This  never  came  into  operation,  the  major  reason  being  that  Progressive  Labor 
is  not  interested  in  piecemeal  type  of  work  among  the  minority  groups,  but 
instead  is  interested  in  attempting  to  propagandize  them  to  the  point  where  they 
will  attempt  either  self-defense  against  policemen  on  the  block  or  will  attempl 
to  take  some  type  of  anarchistic  action  against  the  power  structure. 

Progressive  Labor,  for  all  of  its  talk  of  the  socialist  good,  has  yet  to  produce 
one  example  of  a  practical  attempt  to  help  any  minority  group  in  the  city  of 
New  York.  Instead,  it  has  constantly  harangued — especially  the  black  people  in 
Harlem — to  attempt  to  get  them  in  a  position  where  they  will  try  a  revolt  or 
where,  as  in  the  case  of  the  past  summer  when  riots  took  place,  to  stretch  them 
out,  to  continue  them  going  for  as  long  as  possible. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Would  you  tell  us  what  was  the  influence  of  PLM  on  the  Harlem  riots  of  the 
summer  of  1964?  First,  tell  us  when  they  occurred,  and  the  movements  of  the 
PLM. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

The  Harlem  riots  occurred  in  July  of  1964,  and  the  influence  of  Progressive 
Labor  on  the  riots  was  difficult,  if  not  impossible,  to  directly  and  correctly  assess. 
Progressive  Lajbor  certainly  did  not  start  the  riots  as  some  of  the  newspapei'S  in 
New  York  have  implied.  This  gives  Progressive  Labor  much  more  credit  than  is 
due  it. 

However,  it  was  known  in  the  Progressive  Labor  circles,  as  it  was  known 
throughout  the  city,  that,  as  a  matter  of  fact,  prior  to  the  riots,  most  anything 
could  kick  off  a  full-scale  blood  bath  in  Harlem  the  past  summer  and  probably 
this  summer,  too. 

When  a  policeman  named  Gilligan  shot  a  young  14-year-old  boy,  this  was  the 
key.  While  Progressive  Lahor  did  not  provide  the  key,  it  did  everything  possible 
to  inflame  the  people  in  an  attempt  to  get  them  to  riot  against  the  police.  The  day 
following,  or  2  days  following,  the  shooting  of  the  young  man  by  patrolman  Gil- 
ligan, Bill  Epton,  the  Harlem  leader  of  Progressive  Labor,  gave  a  speech  in  Har- 
lem, which  the  police  in  New  York  City  have  recorded  a  portion  of  and  which  has 
been  printed  in  the  press  in  New  York  City,  which  was  an  extremely  violent 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    969 

speech,  informing  the  people  that  he  knew  the  policemen  were  in  the  crowd,  but 
that  he  wanted  them  to  know  that  they  might  have  to  be  killed  and,  as  a  matter 
of  fact,  I  think  he  said,  "Before  this  thing  is  over,  we  are  going  to  have  to  kill 
some  judges,  too." 

It  was  an  extremely  violent  speech  which  again  helped  to  work  the  people  up 
into  a  position  where  violence  would  certainly  take  place. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  the  very  speech  to  which  Detective  Hart  re- 
ferred. Is  that  correct  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  is  correct,  Mr.  Chairman.  [Continues  read- 
ing:] 

Once  this  violence  took  place  in  Harlem,  and  once  the  people  were  on  the  streets 
again  in  a  state  of  general  anarchy,  where  there  was  no  leadership  at  all  being 
provided  them,  then  Progressive  Labor  did  everything  possible  to  keep  the  riots 
going.  They  published  the  "Wanted  for  Murder — Gilligan,  the  Cop"  poster  which 
I  showed  you  yesterday.  They  published  the  extremely  inflammatory  issue  of 
Challenge  called  Police  Terror.  They  called  on  Bill  Epton  to  attempt  to  march 
in  Harlem,  a  direct  violation  of  police  orders. 

They  gave  lessons  in  how  to  disrupt  the  police  from  moving  down  the  street. 
Members  of  Progressive  Labor  at  that  point  gave  instructions  on  Molotov  cock- 
tails and  their  use.  Progressive  Labor,  through  its  front  group,  the  Harlem  De- 
fense Council,  explained  to  its  members  how  it  was  possible  to  throw  bricks, 
garbage,  and  so  forth,  from  the  rooftops  of  buildings  to  injure  police. 

While  the  riots  cannot  certainly  be  blamed  on  Progressive  Labor,  and  it  only 
inflates  their  position  to  contend  that  they  were  started  by  Progressive  Labor, 
there  is  absolutely  no  doubt  in  my  mind  that,  once  the  riots  began.  Bill  Epton 
and  the  other  members  of  Progressive  Labor  did  everything  possible  to  keep 
the  riots  going  and,  in  keeping  the  riots  going,  to  serve  two  purposes :  One,  to 
fight  the  police,  to  get  people  to  give  them  direction  in  their  battle  against  the 
police ;  and,  secondly,  to  attempt  to  place  Bill  Epton  in  a  leadership  position 
in  the  Harlem  community,  to  tell  the  people  of  Harlem  that  Progressive  Labor 
was  the  only  organization  willing  to  fight  cops,  and  to  attempt  to  get  Progres- 
sive Labor  in  the  leadership  within  the  area. 

In  this  regard,  I  think  an  important  thing  to  mention  here  is  that  the  Harlem 
Defense  Councils  formed  by  Progressive  Labor  prior  to  the  Harlem  riots — and 
I  say  this  on  the  word  of  Bill  Epton,  who  spoke  to  me  concerning  it — were 
formed  with  specifically  the  idea  of  getting  the  i)eople,  block  by  block  in  Harlem, 
to  form  self-defense  groups  based  on  Robert  Williams'  contention  that  if  white 
policemen  come  into  a  black  block  and  attempt  to  intimidate  any  of  the  people 
the  people  should  be  prepared  to  fight  back  with  any  means  available. 

Bill  Epton  told  me  that  at  that  point  there  was  an  attempt  on  the  part  of  him- 
self and  other  members  of  Progressive  Labor  to  use  the  various  junkies  in  the 
various  blocks,  the  narcotic  addicts  on  the  block,  since  they  know  the  most  people, 
so  that  the  minute  trouble  happens,  let's  say  four  or  five  blocks  away,  a  junkie 
might  know  it  and  he  was  in  the  position  to  go  to  all  the  people  and  to  tell  them 
to  get  the  word  spread  as  quickly  as  possible. 

I  also  know  that  there  was  no  question  that  the  oflSce  machinery  used  in  the 
Progressive  Labor  office  in  Harlem  and  some  downtown,  much  of  it  was  stolen 
machinery  which  was  brought  to  Epton  by,  again,  the  local  junkies  in  the  neigh- 
borhood, typewriters,  and  so  on  and  so  forth. 

Epton  used  the  machines  up  there  and  brought  some  downtown,  also. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

I  think  you  told  us  yesterday  Epton  was  a  member  of  the  national  executive 
board  or  committee. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

Yes,  sir ;  he,  at  that  time,  was  a  member  of  the  national. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

Of  PLM. 


970    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  McNamara..  [Keads:] 

Yes,  the  coordinating  committee.  Now,  if  I  am  not  mistaken,  he  is  one  of  the 
elected  cochairmen  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party. 

******* 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

Mr.  Luce,  would  you  tell  us  whether  or  not  what  you  told  us  a  moment  ago 
was  stated  by  Mr.  Epton,  whether  that  conforms  to  the  beliefs  of  PLM  and  its 
teachings  about  police  brutality  and  violence  and  liilling  and  the  need  for  vio- 
lent revolution  and  its  present  desirability? 

Mr.  McNamara.   [Eeads:] 

I  don't  understand  the  question. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

You  stated  what  Epton  said  a  little  while  ago,  including,  as  you  said,  killing 
judges  and  police. 

Mr.  MgNamara.  [Reads:] 

Yes.  That  was  a  very  clear  statement,  I  think,  of  the  logical  conclusions  of 
"State  and  Revolution." 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

In  other  words,  he  was  not  on  an  excursion  of  his  own  when  he  made  that 
speech,  he  was  speaking  more  or  less  for  PLM,  as  you  understood  its  doctrine. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

Yes,  sir.  At  that  time,  the  comments  I  heard  in  Progressive  Labor  regarding 
the  speech  varied.  On  the  one  hand  privately  people  were  saying  things  like, 
"Wow,  that  is  the  way  it  should  be,"  but  publicly,  people  were  then  saying 
things  such  as,  "He  never  said  it,"  "We  don't  really  believe  in  that." 

Certainly  underlying  all  this  was  the  contention  in  most  members'  minds  of 
the  Progressive  Labor  that  this  is  what  has  to  be  done. 

******* 

Could  I  expand  on  that  and  give  an  example  of  what  happened  in  Harlem, 
which  was  certainly  on  a  much  wider  scale  and  what  would  happen  at  Times 
Square? 

First  of  all,  the  organization  would  set  up  such  a  group  as  the  Harlem  Defense 
Council  with  the  specific  idea  of  preparing  the  people  in  the  neighborhood 
to  go  out  and  fight  the  police  if  the  police  "invaded  their  neighborhood." 

Secondly,  practice  would  be  given  to  various  hard-core  members  of  Progressive 
Labor :  practice  in  karate  in  order  that  they  could  go  up  against  the  police ; 
practice  in  gun  use,  which  was  done  on  Long  Island  last  summer  to  various 
members  of  the  Harlem  Progressive  Labor  Club  prior  to  the  riots ;  practice 
in  teaching  some  members  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Councils  and  Progressive 
Labor  Club  in  Harlem  the  use  of  Molotov  cocktails. 

Then  when  it  became  evident  that  it  became  possible  to  create  ttie  scene 
in  Harlem,  Bill  Epton  gave  a  speech  in  Harlem  which  I  mentioned  earlier, 
and.  I  have  in  front  of  me  now  a  portion  of  that  speech  which  I  think  will 
clarify  this  expressly.  I  quote,  and  this  is  Mr.  Epton  speaking  in  Harlem — 

(Here  he  quotes  a  paragraph  of  the  speech  which  has  already  been 
read  into  the  record.) 

Continuing,  Mr.  Luce  testified :  [Mr.  McNamara  continues  reading :] 

After  a  few  speeches  like  this,  you  have  got  the  people  pretty  riled  up.  Then 
when  they  go  in  the  streets,  the  practice  and  the  theory  and  the  karate  training 
and  the  use  of  guns  and  Molotov  cocktails  begins  to  pay  off  for  Progressive 
Labor. 

******* 

the  influence  of  the  Progressive  Movement  among  the  workers  has  been  almost 
nonexistent 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    971 

PL's  biggest  influence  has  been  in  tbe  black  community  and  in  the  anarchist 
student  element.  The  only  workers  that  the  PL  has  reached  are  those  workers 
in  the  PL  who  become  workers  and  it  is  a  fetish.  PL  really  believes  in  the 
workers,  but  they  can't  reach  them,  and  their  whole  concept  is  that  they  go 
along  with  Robert  Williams  to  the  degree  that  the  black  i)eople  may  lead  the 
revolution  because  of  the  fact  that  it  might  be  possible  through  the  black 
ghettos  such  as  Harlem,  and  so  on  and  so  forth,  to  create  such  tumult  in  this 
country,  blowing  up  the  subways  and  just  making  New  York  City  an  absolute 
armed  camp,  that  while  this  was  going  on  another  group  could  possibly  take 
power. 

Again,  this  is  all  very  vague  and  not  outlined  at  all. 

Mr.  Smith.  At  this  point  the  Chairman  asked  the  following 
question : 

To  your  knowledge,  did  anyone  in  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  have  con- 
tact with  the  Canadian  blonde  and  the  two  or  three  men  from  New  York  City 
who  had  plotted  to  blow  up  the  Washington  Monument  and  Liberty  Bell,  and  so 
forth? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

Some  of  us  had  seen  the  woman,  but  I  don't  think  there  was  any  extended 
relationship  with  the  young  men.  One  of  them  who  went  to  Cuba  this  past  sum- 
mer, Robert  CoUier,  had  been  to  the  Progressive  Labor  oflfice  on  occasion.  I  had 
spoken  with  him,  and  he  had  been  to  Harlem  and  talked  with  Bill  Epton;  he 
was  not  a  member,  however,  of  Progressive  Labor. 

The  other  two  were  not  members  of  Progressive  Labor.  As  a  matter  of  fact, 
I  only  knew  Bowe  [Walter  Bowe]  through  an  outside  source,  and  the  other  fellow 
I  never  heard  of,  so  there  was  very  little  contact  with  them  in  Progressive  Labor. 

This  is  the  strangest  thing.  This  is  one  of  the  reasons  I  think  that  Progressive 
Labor  is  somewhat  of  an  indication  of  what  has  been  happening.  For  the  first 
time  in  many  years  in  this  country,  we  are  suddenly  faced  with  a  myriad  of 
groups  springing  up — RAM,  Black  Liberation  Front,  Progressive  Labor,  Youth 
Against  War  and  Fascism,  May  2nd  group,  and  so  on  and  so  forth — all  of  these 
groups  are  suddenly  springing  up,  some  of  which  have  connections  with,  let's 
say,  the  international  Communist  movement,  but  others  of  which  are  based  on 
a  misunderstanding  or  a  rapid  reading  of  Leninism  and  which  have  very  few 
international  contacts,  if  any. 

It  is  a  new  thing  insofar  as  they  are  not  easily  identifiable  in  the  old  references 
of  Communist  or  within  the  reference  of  the  Internal  Security  Act. 

Mr.  Smith.  The  following  will  be  the  testimony  of  Miss  Warden, 
Judith  Anne  Warden. 

The  Chairman.  Before  you  go  into  that,  may  I  ask  a  question? 

Mr.  McNamara,  you  noticed  my  question  to  Detective  Hart  as  to  the 
reason,  within  his  opinion  or  knowledge,  for  the  change  of  the  name 
from  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  to  Progressive  Labor  Party 
and  whether  the  latter  had  more  political  connotations  than  formerly. 

Do  you  have  any  comment?  Could  you  elaborate  on  that? 

Mr.  McNamara.  Only,  Mr.  Chairman,  it  would  be  my  estimate  that 
your  thinking  on  the  subject,  confirmed  by  Mr.  Hart,  would  be  ac- 
curate, that  these  Communist  groups  usually  do  like  to  put  forth  candi- 
dates for  public  office  whenever  they  can. 

For  this  reason,  the  name  "Party"  is  more  appropriate  and  more 
acceptable  to  the  public  than  a  word  like  "Movement." 

Mr.  Watson.  Mr.  Chairman? 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Watson. 

Mr.  Watson.  I  think  the  record  should  show  at  this  time  the  dates 
of  membership  of  Phillip  Luce  in  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

Do  you  have  that  information? 

Mr.  McNamara.  The  counsel  read  that  into  the  record. 

Mr.  Luce,  I  believe,  was  July  1&64  to  January  1965. 


972    SUBVERSIVE  mELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Miss  Warden,  I  know  she  left  about  the  same  time,  January  1965. 
I  believe  she  was  in  the  [Progressive  Labor]  Movement  a  few  months 
before  Mr.  Luce,  if  I  recall  correctly. 

Mr.  Watson.  The  testimony  of  the  earlier  witness  identified,  as  I 
recall,  one  Judith  Warden. 

Mr.  McNamara.  It  is  her  testimony  [of  June  8, 1965]  that  is  about 
to  be  read  now,  Mr.  Watson. 

Mr.  Watson.  That  is  right.  I  do  not  recall  the  earlier  witness  men- 
tioning the  name  of  Phillip  Luce. 

Does  counsel  recall  whether  or  not  he  was  mentioned  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  His  activity,  Mr.  Watson,  was  primarily  in  the 
Harlem  Club  of  Progressive  Labor.  For  that  reason  he  did  not  have 
contact  with  Mr.  Luce. 

Mr.  Tuck.  As  I  recall  him,  Mr.  Luce  broke  with  the  Progressive 
Labor  Movement  some  years  ago,  and  shortly  thereafter  came  before 
this  committee  and  made  a  very  elaborate  statement.  Is  that  correct? 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  is  correct,  Mr.  Tuck.  He  broke  in  January 
1965.  He  has  testified  three  or  four  times  in  executive  session  before  the 
committee,  and  then  also  publicly  last  year  in  the  hearings  on  the  Pool 
bill. 

Mr.  Tuck.  He  is  the  same  individual  who  testified  as  a  very  hostile 
witness  in  the  Cuban  hearings  that  we  held  in  1963,  I  believe  it  was. 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  is  correct,  Mr.  Tuck.  He  was  one  of  the  orga- 
nizers of  one  of  those  student  trips  to  Cuba. 

Mr.  Watson.  At  that  time,  when  he  organized  that  trip,  apparently 
he  was  not  a  member  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement. 

Mr.  McNamara.  He  had  not  yet  joined  the  organization.  He  oper- 
ated on  the  fringes  of  it,  more  or  less,  for  some  time  before  formally 
going  in. 

Mr.  Watson.  He  was  the  same  party  that  wrote  the  book  Road  to 
Revohition^  as  I  recall  the  name. 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  is  correct. 

The  Chairman.  Now  proceed  with  the  testimony  of  Judith  Warden. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Keads:] 

Miss  Warden,  now  we  are  getting  around  to  you  where  we  were  before — 
about  your  efforts  in  the  publication  of  the  weekly  Challenge. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Beads:] 

Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Eeads:] 

That  is  the  weekly  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  is  that  right? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

Yes. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

When  did  you  first  get  connected  with  that,  and  tell  us  what  you  can  about  it 
and  then  get  into  the  role  that  it  played  in  respect  to  fomenting  resistance  to 
authority  of  whatever  kind  and  the  invocation  of  force,  confrontation,  and  police 
brutality. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

The  first  issue  of  Challenge  was  published  on  June  11,  1964.  I  got  involved  in 
it  near  the  middle  of  May  1964,  at  which  time  I  was  introduced  to  Fred  Jerome, 
who  was  supposed  to  be,  and  was,  the  editor  of  Challenge.  He  asked  me  if  I 


STJBVERSn^E  rNTFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    973 

wanted  to  work  on  it  on  a  part-time  basis.  I  at  that  time  had  not  joined  Pro- 
gressive Labor  Movement,  but  I  had  newspaper  experience. 


So  I  said  that  I  would  help  them  out  with  it.  It  turned  out  that  although  they 
had  assembled  a  staff,  none  of  the  people  on  the  original  staff  had  had  any 
newspaper  experience.  Mr.  Jerome  and  I  put  out  the  first  several  issues  of 
Challenge  together,  and  he  asked  me  to  become  a  full-time  paid  member  of  the 
staff,  which  I  did. 

At  the  first  meeting  I  attended  concerning  Challenge,  Mr.  Jerome  said  that 
the  national  coordinating  committee  of  Progressive  Labor  felt  that  there  was  a 
great  need  for  a  newspaper  in  New  York  City  that  would  emphasize  the  issue  of 
police  brutality,  publicize  it,  expose  it.  This  has  been  the  main  theme  in  Challenge 
from  its  inception  up  to  the  present.  I  think,  to  give  you  an  idea  of  what 
Challenge  is  like,  it  might  be  possible  for  me  to  read  some  of  the  main  headlines 
in  it.  This  will  also  give  you  an  idea  of  some  of  the  issues  covered  in  Challenge. 

The  first  issue,  the  headline  was  "Police  War  on  Harlem"  in  big  red  type.  The 
bottom  half  of  the  newspaper  had  a  blown-up  head  shot  of  a  Negro  with  a  patch 
over  his  eye,  and  according  to  the  newspaper,  this  man  had  had  his  eye  gouged 
out  by  a  policeman's  billy  club  several  weeks  before. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  had  had  his  eye  gouged  out? 

Mr. MoNamara.  [Reads:] 

I  never  met  the  man ;  I  can't  say  for  sure.  There  seemed  to  be  enough  evidence 
though  from  non-PL  people  that  the  man  had  had  his  eye  gouged  out.  However, 
the  story  in  Challenge  said  that  he  was  beaten  in  the  police  station  while  his  eye 
was  hanging  out  of  the  socket.  He  was  not  taken  to  the  hospital,  I  believe,  until 
18  hours  after  the  eye  had  been  damaged.  I  don't  know  whether  this  part  of  it 
is  true  or  not.  Now  it  seems  incredible,  but  at  that  time  it  seemed  quite  credible. 
Here  is  a  small  picture  of  it. 

The  second  issue,  published  on  June  20,  said,  "While  City  Hall  Sleeps :  Rats 
Menace  Tenants,"  and  at  the  bottom  it  has  another  headline  saying,  "Harlem 
Fights  Police  BrutaJity." 

On  June  27  Challenge  has  a  headline  "Harlem  Teenagers  Beaten  in  Prison, 
Mothers  Lead  Rally  to  Save  Sons."  A  subhead  on  the  front  page  also  says,  "New 
Eviction  Racket." 

The  fourth  issue,  published  on  July  4,  says,  "Big  Week  for  Murphy's  Mob, 
Cops  Trigger  Two  More  Murders,"  Murphy  being  the  police  commissioner  in 
New  York. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

What  is  that  on  the  back  of  No.  4? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

Yes,  I  forgot  to  mention  this.  Challenge  is  published  in  English  and  Spanish. 
Most  of  the  Spanish  articles  are  translations  from  the  English.  Page  8  and  page  7 
are  in  Spanish, 

The  sixth  issue,  published  on  July  18,  bears  the  headline  "New  Slumlord  is 
City  Hall"— "Third  St.  Organizes  for  Self  Defense" — "Shakespeare  Gets  Work- 
ers' Welcome."  The  top  headline  is  "Murphy's  Cops  Murder  Again." 

This  is  the  general  tone  of  it. 

The  issue  that  did  the  most  work  on  the  police  brutality  was  one  that  was 
published  during  the  Harlem  riots.  There  were  10,000  of  these  that  were  run 
off  as  a  special  12-page  issue  of  Challenge.  Ten  thousand  of  these,  or  very  close 
to  ten  thousand,  did  get  out  in  circulation.  The  headline  is  "Demonstrate  Sat- 
urday, July  25th,  to  Protest  POLICE  TERROR."  On  the  front  page  it  has  a  big 
picture  showing  a  cop  with  a  billy  club  beating  over  a  Negro  man's  head;  the 
Negro  man  is  lying  on  the  ground.  The  subtitle  on  the  front  page  picture  is 
"Harlem  Fights  Back." 


974    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Smith.  [Keads :] 

The  photographer  there,  was  he  someone  who  was  taking  pictures  particularly 
for  Challenffe,  or  was  he  just  a  news  photographer  from  whom  you  got  the 
picture? 

Mr.  MoNamara.  [Reads:] 

No,  he  was  employed  by  Challenge. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

What  is  his  name,  Velasquez  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

His  name  in  Challenge  is  Velasquez. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Where  did  you  find  him? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

He  was  the  son  of  the  cartoonist  who  for  some  years,  3  or  4  years,  has  done 
cartoon  work  for  the  Progressive  Labor  magazine  and  did  cartoons  for  Challenge. 
His  name  is  Korf . 

There  are  several  sections  in  the  lead  editorial  in  this  issue  which  are  in- 
teresting, to  give  you  a  notion  of  what  Challenge  wants  and  what  it  is  urging : 

"Fifteen-year-old  James  Powell  was  not  the  first,  nor  the  last  to  be  gunned 
down  in  cold  blood  by  New  York's  killer-cops.  He  was,  perhaps,  the  most  obvious 
case  of  police  murder. 

"The  rebellion  sparked  by  his  murder  will  not  end  soon — in  fact,  indications 
are  that  it  is  spreading  throughout  the  City.  The  vision  of  half  a  million — or  a 
million — angry  black  men  and  wom^n,  supported  by  allies  in  the  Puerto  Rican 
and  other  working  class  communities,  standing  up  to  their  oppressors,  is  haunting 
the  ruling  class.  People  have  already  begun  to  speak  of  'guerrilla  warfare'  and 
'revolutionaries' ." 

The  last  section  of  this  editorial  reads : 

"It's  not  easy  to  fight  bullets.  But  it's  not  impossible  either.  We  should  have 
learned  a  few  things  from  the  events  of  the  past  weeks : 

"We  can  see  more  clearly  who  the  phonies  are. 

"We  can  see  that  the  whole  power  structure  trembles  when  the  people  stand  up 
and  fight  back. 

"We  can  see  that  we  can't  win  this  war  for  freedom  in  one  day  or  one  night 
or  one  week.  It  takes  careful  planning,  and  it  takes  organization. 

"What  scares  them  most  is  the  thought  that  the  people  of  Harlem  are  orga- 
nizing an  army  for  their  own  defense.  And  that  is  just  what  must  be  done ! 

"Anybody  can  stand  on  a  corner  and  talk.  But  it  was  real  blood — not  words — 
that  came  out  of  James  Powell  when  that  'butcher  in  blue'  shot  him  dead.  TODAY 
is  the  time  to  act — to  organize." 

Then  it  urges  people  to  "JOIN  the  Harlem  Defense  Council."  It  says :  "ORGA- 
NIZE your  block. 

"SUPPORT  the  march  and  demonstration  Saturday,  July  25  *  *  *." 

The  last  paragraph  reads :  "Let  no  one  plead  for  'peace'  while  our  chil- 
dren are  being  murdered  in  the  streets.  This  is  not  the  hour  to  'stay  home' 
from  the  freedom  fight." 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Who  wrote  that? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

This  is  not  a  signed  editorial.  The  majority  of  editorials,  in  fact  all  of  the 
editorials  practically  up  until  the  time  Fred  Jerome  left  Challenge,  were  written 
by  Fred  Jerome. 

The  Chairman.  Do  we  have  any  identification  of  Fred  Jerome? 

Mr.  McNamara.  Fred  Jerome,  Mr.  Chairman,  is  the  son  of  Victor 
Jeremy  Jerome,  who  for  many  years  was  often  described  as  one  of 
the  cultural  commissars  of  the  Communist  Party.  He  is  generally 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    975 

credited  with  playing  a  major  role,  if  not  the  major  role,  in  planning 
and  masterminding  the  Communist  infiltration  of  the  moving  picture 
industry  15,  or  rather  20  or  25,  years  ago. 

The  Chairman.  Yes.  I  recall  him  now. 

Mr.  McNamara.  Apparently  there  has  been  a  split  in  the  family. 
Jerome  died  a  few  years  ago,  that  is,  V.  J.  Jerome.  Testimony  received 
before  this  committee  indicates  that  his  son,  Fred,  and  Alice  Jerome, 
his  wife,  switched  over  from  the  CP  to  the  Progressive  Labor  Party 
even  before  he  died. 

Continuing  Miss  Warden's  testimony : 

The  center  fold  of  this  issue  of  Challenge  has  four  pages  of  horror  pictures, 
as  it  were.  All  of  these  pictures  show  policemen  brutalizing  Negroes,  has  com- 
parisons between  the  Harlem  riots  and.  the  Warsaw  ghettos. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Did  you  ever  talk  to  this  photographer  about  the  taking  of  his  pictures? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

Yes. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Did  he  receive  any  instructions  as  to  just  what  he  should  try  to  get,  and 
was  the  application  of  his  pictures  to  the  purposes  of  Challenge  discussed  with 
him? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

I  don't  remember  any  particular  occasion  when  he  was  urged  to  take  pictures 
showing  the  most  offensive  acts  of  "police  brutality,"  however,  it  was  certainly 
his  understanding  that  this  was  the  case ;  this  is  what  he  was  supposed  to  do. 
In  various  circumstances  when  he  was  asked  to  take  a  picture  of  a  certain  thing, 
he  was  told  exactly  what  we  wanted.  This  is  standard  procedure. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Now  have  you  given  us  a  general  idea  of  the  function  of  Challenge  in  respect 
to  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

Let  me  mention  some  of  the  things  that  Challenge  deals  with  besides  "police 
brutality."  It  deals  with  tenant-landlord  conflicts,  particularly  in  the  Puerto 
Rican  or  Negro  ghettos  in  New  York  City.  It  is  always  talking  about  having 
to  get  rid  of  the  two-legged  rats  and  the  four-legged  rats. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

What  are  the  two-legged  rats  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

This  refers  to  i>eople  like  Mayor  Wagner,  Police  CJommissioner  Murphy, 
Screvane  [Paul  Screvane,  president  of  the  NYC  Council]. 

Another  big  area  of  stress  in  Challenge  is  the  area  of  labor.  The  Progressive 
Labor  Party  takes  a  fairly  radical  stand  on  unions  in  this  country.  It  says 
unions  are  not  any  good,  they  are  not  doing  anything  for  the  working  class, 
they  are  all  sell-out  unions  to  the  imperialist  of  the  working  class.  In  that 
context  it  has  written  a  number  of  articles  against  the  ILA,  the  ILGWU, 
and  Dubinsky.  It  has  also  done  a  lot  of  work  on  the  situation  of  the  railroads 
in  New  York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

Now  do  you  feel  that  we  have  got  a  fair  picture  of  Challenge's  function? 

Mr.  McNamara.   [Reads :] 

There  are  two  more  things  that  it  covers. 


976    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

All  right. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

One  of  them  is  that  Challenge  lately  has  given  a  great  deal  of  space  to  the 
various  legal  entanglements  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party,  and  these  are  nu- 
merous. The  other  thing  is  that  it  carries  every  week  a  column  of  foreign  nevps 
covering  the  national  liberation  movements  and  news  from  socialist  countries. 
This  material  comes  mostly  from  Hsin  Hua,  which  is  the  New  China  News 
Agency. 

Challenge  is  printed  by  the  Tri-Line  Offset  Company.  Fred  Jerome,  who  is  on 
the  national  coordinating  committee  of  Progressive  Labor,  was  up  until  recently 
the  editor  of  Challenge;  Walter  Linder  is  now  the  editor  of  Challenge.  Walter 
Linder  is  also  the  head  of  the  Unemployed  Railroad  Workers  Council. 

Selma  Sparks  is  the  feature  editor  of  Challenge.  Mark  Shapiro  is  one  of  the 
reporters.  Alejandro  Figueroa  is  the  reporter  for  the  Puerto  Rican  community. 
He  was  very  active  at  one  time  with  Albizu  Campos,  and  I  do  not  know  whether 
this  is  true  or  not,  but  he  told  me  he  was  the  guard  for  Albizu  Campos  at  one 
point. 

Mr.  Chairman,  I  might  interject  that  Albizu  Campos,  who  died  a 
few  years  ago,  was  the  leader  of  the  Puerto  Rican  Nationalist  Party, 
which  is  the  organization  that  tried  to  assassinate  President  Truman 
a  number  of  years  back  and  also  shot  up  the  House  of  Representatives 
and  injured  a  number  of  its  Members.  [Continues  reading:] 

Elsa  Martinez  is  also  on  Challenge,  covering  Puerto  Rican  affairs.  She  is  a 
member  of  the  Lower  East  Side  Club  of  Progressive  Labor.  Roger  Taus  at  the 
time  that  I  was  working  on  Challenge  was  also  working  on  Challenge.  He  has 
been  transferred  over  to  the  editorship  of  the  Free  Student. 

Challenge  is  sold  primarily  on  a  neighborhood  basis.  That  means  that  the 
people  in  the  neighborhood  clubs  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  get  out  on 
the  street  corner,  walk  up  and  down  the  street,  and  sell  Challenge.  They  also  will 
go  door  to  door  in  the  apartment  buildings  and  sell  it.  There  are  about  100  to 
120  that  are  sold  every  week  on  newsstands.  Challenge  is  also  sold  every  week 
in  the  garment  center.  I  think  its  circulation  is  about  2,200  to  2,500  now.  A  great 
deal  of  its  circulation  comes  from  subscribers. 

The  Progressive  Labor  Party  has  another  newspaper  similar  to  Challenge  on 
the  West  Coast  and  the  name  of  that  is  Spark.  I  do  not  know  that  much  of  the 
details  of  its  circulation  or  how  it  is  printed  or  anything. 

******* 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads:] 

Were  there  also  neighborhood  clubs?  That  is  what  you  named  first,  neighbor- 
hoods, which  I  called  geographical  locations.  What  are  the  functions  of  the 
clubs  generally  and  in  particular  the  college  clubs  and  neighborhood  ones ; 
how  do  they  fit  into  this? 

Mr.  McNamara.   [Reads :] 

The  neighborhood  clubs  are  basically  in  charge  of  such  things  as  selling  Chal- 
lenge, selling  the  Progressive  Labor  magazine.  Many  of  them  devote  a  lot  of  their 
time  to  organizing  rent  strike  activities  within  the  neighborhood,  trying  to  inter- 
fere with  tenant-landlord  problems.  The  members  are  also  sni)posed  to  keep  their 
eyes  and  ears  open  to  see  what  is  going  on  in  the  neighborhood  and  then  report 
these  stories  to  Challenge. 

Mr.  Smith.   [Reads:] 

In  that  regard  what  are  their  instructions,  who  do  they  look  for,  what  is  the 
purpose  of  the  membership  and  the  club? 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads:] 

Of  course  the  key  things  to  look  for  in  terms  of  Challenge  are  any  incidents 
of  "police  brutality"  that  they  might  come  across,  any  tenant-landlord  problem 
that  could  turn  into  a  real  crisis  situation  within  the  neighborhood.  Let  me  give 
you  an  example  of  that.  On  the  Lower  East  Side  on  East  Third  Street  there  is 
a  landlord  who  has  been  involved  over  the  past  couple  of  years  in  various  con- 


SUBVERSIVE  rNTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    977 

flicts  with  some  of  the  Puerto  Rican  people  in  the  neighborhood.  Last  summer 
just  before  the  Harlem  riots  there  was  an  incident  wherein  he  apparently  prac- 
tically beat  to  death  this  Puerto  Rican  man  who  lived  on  the  block. 

Challenge  picked  up  this  story  and  of  course  made  it  into  a  big  crisis.  Also  the 
neighborhood  club  down  there  got  involved  in  the  situation  and  started  having 
street  meetings  and  giving  fairly  incendiary-type  speeches  about  this  man.  There 
was  a  picket  line  one  Saturday  night  on  East  Third  Street  right  across  the  street 
from  the  building  which  he  owned,  at  which  there  were  about  25  or  30  young 
people  in  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  who  were  picketing.  Unfortunately  the 
Progressive  Labor  Movement  was  not  able  to  draw  in  any  of  the  neighborhood 
people  on  that  picket  line,  it  was  just  the  Progressive  Labor  people  picketing; 
no  Puerto  Ricans,  no  Negroes  in  the  neighborhood  picketing. 

This  was  going  on  for  about  2  or  3  days  and  was  an  extremely  tense  situation 
in  the  neighborhood,  a  great  deal  of  very  strong  feeling  on  the  part  of  Puerto 
Rican  people  down  there  against  this  landlord.  The  Integrated  Workers  Club, 
which  is  the  official  name  of  the  Lower  East  Side  Club,  took  advantage  of  this 
and  did  quite  a  bit  to  inflame  these  feelings.  They  passed  out  leaflets  and,  as  I 
said,  had  these  street  meetings.  All  this  culminated  in  his  building  being  burned 
down ;  the  first  floor  of  the  building  was  completely  burned  out. 

Mr.  Smith.  The  following  is  the  testimony  of  Judith  Warden  on 
June  9. 

Miss  Warden  makes  an  opening  statement. 
Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

I  would  like  to  make  a  comment  on  that  question  of  Harlem  Defense  Councils. 
It  is  stated  in  Challenge  the  purpose  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Councils.  There  is 
another  brief  quote  I  would  like  to  give  you  concerning  the  role  of  the  neighbor- 
hood clubs  in  such  things  as  rent  strikes,  what  they  hope  to  do. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Could  you  characterize  it?  We  have  only  got  about  10  minutes.  We  want  to 
cover  many  things.  Is  it  possible  to  summarize  it  and  characterize  what  was  said 
there,  giving  us  the  reference? 

Mr.  McNamaba.  [Reads:] 

Let  me  just  skip  the  one  on  the  Harlem  Defense  Councils  then  and  give  you 
the  one  on  the  tenants  question. 

Mr.  Smith.  [Reads :] 

Give  us  the  document  and  page  and  date. 

Mr.  McNamara.  [Reads :] 

This  is  page  5  of  Challenge,  volume  1,  No.  3  [June  27, 1964]  : 

"The  idea  is  to  form  a  tenants'  committee  in  every  building,  and  then  to  unite 
these  committees  with  their  own  elected  representatives  into  a  neighborhood 
council.  This  council  could  then  carry  on  neighborhood-wide  rent  strikes,  hold 
demonstrations,  run  candidates,  or  even  block  the  streets,  to  get  the  tenants' 
rights." 

Then  on  the  block  committees,  one  of  the  purposes  is  when  a  jroliceman  arrests 
a  citizen,  the  people  on  the  block  are  then  supposed  to  come  out  and  rescue  that 
citizen  from  the  police  officers.  In  this  quoted  Challenge  [page  3],  it  says,  "The 
possibility  of  self-defense  in  such  cases" — of  violence  for  the  purpose  of  self- 
defense — "is  not  excluded." 

It  is  interesting  to  note,  I  think,  that  within  the  last  2  weeks  there  have  been 
three  incidents  in  the  Bronx  wherein  people  on  the  block  have  taken,  through 
violence,  a  prisoner  away  from  police  officers. 

So  although  PL  may  not  have  done  this  or  led  the  people  in  doing  this,  they 
have  spread  the  idea  around  so  that  it  is  catching. 

Mr.  Smfph.  Mr.  Chairman,  that  concludes  Mr.  McNamara's  presen- 
tation. 

Mr.  Tuck.  Mr.  McNamara,  do  you  have  any  information  of  your 
own  as  to  whether  or  not  any  of  these  pictures  were  rigged,  or  were 
they  true  pictures  ? 


978    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  MoNamara.  It  is  my  understanding  from  talking  with  Mr. 
Luce  and  Miss  Warden  in  the  past,  and  with  other  people  who  have 
been  in  similar  movements,  that  what  they  try  to  do  is  alwa.^s,  of  course, 
to  avoid  photographing  the  provocative  action,  the  brutality,  the  force 
that  a  citizen  will  use  against  a  policeman,  but  then  to  get  the  justified 
reaction  in  most  cases  of  the  policeman  who  is  trying  to  carry  out  his 
assigned  duty  and  place  a  person  under  arrest. 

Mr.  Tuck.  The  effect  of  that  is  a  rigged  picture,  because  it  does  not 
present  the  full  facts  ? 

Mr.  McNamara.  That  is  true.  It  is  true  the  thing  actually  happened, 
but  it  is  carefully  staged  to  create  a  misleading  impression. 

Mr.  Watson.  In  that  connection,  Mr.  McNamara,  without  impugn- 
ing anyone  or  any  publication,  they  get  a  lot  of  help  in  advertising  the 
reaction  of  the  police,  rather  than  provocation  on  the  part  of  the  citi- 
zen, from  legitimate  publications. 

I  recall  one  magazine.  I  never  saw  such  inflammatory  pictures  in  all 
my  life  as  the  pictures  I  saw  in  that  magazine.  The  chairman  has  seen 
them,  where  a  young  Negro  boy  is  shot  down,  and  the  blood  is  flowing 
on  the  street,  the  policeman  carrying  a  billy  club,  and  what-have-you. 

So  I  think  they  are  getting  a  lot  of  encouragement  from  legitimate 
sources,  rather  than  their  fabricated  sources. 

May  I  ask  one  question  ? 

The  Chairman.  Go  ahead. 

Mr.  Watson.  You  referred  to  Roger  Taus,  at  least  the  testimony  re- 
ferred to  Roger  Taus,  as  leaving  the  staff  of  Challenge  and  now  being 
the  editor  of  the  Free  Student.  Are  you  knowledgeable,  Mr.  McNa- 
mara, as  to  who  publishes  that  and  the  extent  of  its  publication? 

Mr.  MoNamara.  Free  Student  was  the  official  publication  of  the  May 
2nd  Movement.  It  is  now  out  of  existence.  That  organization,  the  May 
2nd  Movement,  is  defunct  as  well. 

Mr.  Taus,  as  I  recall,  edited  Free  Student  while  it  was  being  pub- 
lished. It  is  no  longer  published. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  until  2 :80. 

(Whereupon,  at  12 :10  p.m.,  Tuesday,  October  31, 1967,  the  committee 
recessed,  to  reconvene  at  2 :30  p.m.,  the  same  day.) 

AFTERNOON  SESSION— TUESDAY,  OCTOBER  31,  1967 

(The  subcommittee  reconvened  at  2 :30  p.m.,  Hon.  Edwin  E.  Willis, 
chairman,  presiding.) 

(Subcommittee  members  present :  Representatives  Willis,  Ashbrook, 
and  Watson.) 

The  Chairman.  Our  first  witness  this  afternoon  will  be  Mr.  Herbert 
Romerstein. 

Please  raise  your  right  hand,  Mr.  Romerstein.  Do  you  solemnly 
swear  the  testimony  you  give  before  this  committee  will  be  the  truth, 
the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help  you  God  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Proceed. 

TESTIMONY  OF  HERBERT  ROMERSTEIN 

Mr.  Smith.  Ple^ise  state  your  name. 
Mr.  Romerstein.  Herbert  Romerstein. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    979 

Mr.  Smith.  Where  are  you  employed  ? 

Mr.  RoMEKSTEiN.  I  am  an  investigator  for  the  House  Committee 
on  Un-American  Activities. 

Mr.  Smith,  How  long  have  you  been  working  in  this  field? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  I  liave  been  working  in  the  general  field  since 
1950,  but  I  have  been  with  this  committee  for  about  21^  years. 

Mr.  Smith.  Have  you  conducted  a  background  investigation  into 
the  events  leading  up  to  the  Harlem  riot  of  1964  and  subsequent 
activities  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir,  I  have. 

Mr.  Smith,  Has  racial  and  antipolice  agitation  taken  place  for 
many  years  in  New  York  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir;  and  much  of  this  agitation  has  been  de- 
veloped by  the  various  organizations  within  the  Communist  peri- 
phery— the  Communist  Party  itself,  as  well  as  other  organizations 
affiliated  with  the  Communist  Party  and,  subsequently,  organizations 
of  the  Red  Chinese-oriented  Communists,  such  as  the  Progressive 
Labor  Party  and  organizations  affiliated  with  it. 

Mr.  Smith.  Can  you  describe  some  of  the  agitation  that  took  place 
immediately  after  the  shooting  of  James  Powell  on  July  16,  1964, 
which  helped  stir  up  the  community  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Well,  sir,  might  I  go  back  a  little  bit  and  describe 
some  of  the  climate  of  opinion  that  had  been  created  over  a  period  of 
time,  over  a  period  of  years,  that  helped  set  the  stage  for  the  1964 
events.  The  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  for  many,  many  years  has  had 
an  interest  in  gaining  recruits  in  the  Negro  community.  This  commit- 
tee issued  a  report  a  number  of  years  ago  concerning  this  and  pointed 
out  that  the  Communist  Party  was  extremely  unsuccessful  in  its  at- 
tempts to  penetrate  the  Negro  community. 

The  Chairman,  May  I  say  that  I  am  proud  to  say  as  chairman  of 
this  committee  that  it  is  a  compliment  to  the  colored  race  that  they 
have  been  able  to  resist  and  not  fall  for  all  this  effort  to  infiltrate  and 
to  entice  them  into  the  line  of  the  Communists,  It  is  wonderful  that  so 
few  have  fallen  for  that.  Of  course,  in  the  white  race  you  have  some 
bad  apples  in  the  barrel,  too. 

I  would  say  that  one,  Stokely  Carmichael,  in  my  opinion,  is  just  a 
troublemaking  militant  Communist,  He  says  what  he  wants  in  America 
is  Castro-type  communism  and  he  would  like  to  have  actual  guerrilla 
warfare,  revolutionary  warfare.  He  is  completely  no  good.  But  I  com- 
pliment the  colored  race  for  resisting  the  effort  to  agitate  and  infiltrate. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Tuck  entered  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Well,  sir,  in  watching  the  attempts  of  the  Com- 
munists over  the  years  to  gain  recruits  amon^  Negroes,  it  was  inter- 
esting to  see  that  they  always  stressed  winning  the  Negro  working 
class.  They  have  never  made  any  kind  of  inroads  among  Negro 
workers.  The  few  Negroes  they  got  over  a  period  of  time,  over  the 
years,  have  often  been  Negro  intellectuals  and  college  students,  and 
very  few  of  those,  and  then  they  never  held  them  very  long.  Only  a 
tiny  handful  of  Negroes  remain  in  the  Communist  Party  once  they 
get  in.  But  we  have  suddenly  seen  a  new  approach  by  the  Communists. 
Rather  than  attempting  to  win  over  Negro  workers  whom  they  have 
been  unsuccessful  with,  there  is  now  an  attempt  to  win  over  another 
segment  of  the  Negro  population,  a  segment  which  exists  in  every 
population,  the  juvenile  delinquent  and  semicriminal  element.  These 


980    SUBVERSIVE  INELTTENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

people  are  not  workers  because  they  will  not  work.  They  live  in  the 
community  in  a  different  way. 

As  I  said,  this  type  of  element  exists  in  every  society,  and  the  Com- 
munists have  found  it  possible  to  utilize  these  people  in  the  riots  that 
the  Communists  would  like  to  have  develop. 

As  the  counsel  pointed  out  this  morning,  of  approximately  400,000 
people  living  in  the  Harlem  area,  only  about  1  percent  were  partici- 
pants at  all  in  the  riot.  That  is,  despite  the  opportunities  available  for 
looting  and  burning  and  anything  else  that  anybody  wanted  to  do,  be- 
cause police  could  not  cope  with  everything  at  once. 

The  Chairman.  And  that  1  percent  is  of  the  type  you  just  described  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  Many  of  those  arrested  were  juvenile 
delinquents  or  people  with  criminal  records  who  took  advantage  of 
the  opportunity  to  attack  the  police  or  loot.  But  the  bulk  of  the  Negro 
people  weren't  at  all  involved  in  this  and  were  apart  from  it. 

But  even  to  reach  this  element  of  the  community  it  was  necessary  for 
a  propaganda  campaign  to  be  conducted  over  the  years.  Since  the 
obvious  enemy  of  the  semicriminal  or  the  juvenile  delinquent  is  a 
policeman,  the  policeman  became  the  target  of  most  of  the  agitation 
that  was  conducted.  The  policeman  was  the  visible  representative  of 
the  white  power  structure,  but  he  was  also  the  man  who  actually  made 
the  arrest  when  the  criminal  action  took  place. 

This  is  an  earlier  document,  this  goes  back  to  1948  when  Benjamin 
J.  Davis,  an  official  of  the  Communist  Party,  was  a  member  of  the 
city  council  of  New  York,  an  elected  representative.  At  that  time  he 
took  advantage  of  his  position  in  the  city  council  to  issue  this  booklet 
entitled  "Lynching  Northern  Style,  POLICE  BRUTALITY,"  giving 
alleged  cases  of  police  brutality  against  persons  who  had  been  arrested 
for  various  crimes. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  1"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Taking  it  up  to  a  more  recent  date :  in  1963,  within 
a  period  of  6  or  7  months  before  the  Harlem  riot,  two  Puerto  Ricans 
who  had  been  arrested  by  the  police  in  Harlem  were  shot  as  a  result  of 
attempting  to  disarm  the  police  officers  in  the  police  car.  The  Progi'es- 
sive  Labor  Party  put  out  a  leaflet  in  which  they  said  this : 

Police  brutality  in  New  York's  Negro  and  Puerto  Riean  neighborhoods  is  a 
day  by  day,  night  by  night,  hour  by  hour,  fact  of  life.  This  brutality  is  no  accident. 
It  is  systematic  brutality,  organized  at  police  headquarters  and  sanctioned  by 
Wagner  the  "liberal,"  the  "reformer,"  the  "friend  of  the  people."  *  *  * 

It  goes  on  later : 

Police  terror  is  a  system — not  an  accident 

Wagner's  cops — who  are  also  Rockefellers  and  Kennedy's  cops — are  engaged 
in  a  systematic,  organized  attempt  to  intimidate  New  York's  Negro  and  Puerto 
Rican  workers.  Wagner  fears  the  Negro  and  Puerto  Riean  people's  struggle 
because  their  struggle  threatens  him  and  the  landlords,  the  business  interests,  the 
big  money  that  he  represents. 

This  refers  to  Mayor  Robert  Wagner,  Governor  Rockefeller,  and 
President  John  F.  Kennedy. 

Within  this  one  leaflet  is  the  basic  concept,  the  police  are  deliberately 
brutal.  They  want  to  hurt  people  and  they  are  tlie  representative  of 
the  white  structure.  When  you  hit  that  blue  uniform  you  are  hitting 
the  entire  Government  of  the  United  States.  It  doesn't  matter  what 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    981 

sort  of  government  it  is ;  whether  it  is  liberal,  conservative,  or  what, 
whether  it  is  Mayor  Wagner,  Governor  Kockefeller,  or  President 
John  F.  Kennedy ;  these  are  all  the  enemy  and  the  policeman  was  the 
visible  example  of  that. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  2"  appears  on  p.  982.) 
Mr.  Romerstein.  In  connection  with  the  same  shooting  of  these  two 
people,  a  group  called  the  East  Harlem  Tenants  Council  headed  by 
Ted  Velez,  who  has  been  involved  in  many  of  these  demonstrations, 
issued  leaflets  and  statements  saying  basically  the  same  thing — ^that  the 
police  are  deliberately  murdering  Puerto  Rican  people  and  that  demon- 
strations should  be  conducted  against  the  police  department. 

The  Progressive  Labor  Party  magazine,  which  also  bears  the  name 
Progressive  Labor ^  in  its  issue  of  March  1964,  had  a  headline  to  an 
article  written  by  Fred  Jerome,  who  was  identified  this  morning  at 
the  hearing,  entitled  "Cops  Kill  Again  in  Harlem.]'  This  refers  to  a 
Puerto  Rican  who  had  been  shot  by  the  police  while  carrying  out  a 
criminal  act. 

The  Communists  in  this  way  attempt  to  identify  themselves  as  the 
defenders  of  the  petty  criminal  who  gets  in  trouble  with  the  police 
and  try  to  create  a  climate  of  opinion  that  says  that  the  police  are 
the  enemies  of  society  and  the  petty  criminal  is  the  friend  of  society, 
or  part  of  society. 

When  the  newspaper  Challenge  was  published  in  June  of  1964, 
before  the  riot,  the  first  headline  that  they  printed,  and  they  printed 
it  in  red,  was  "POLICE  WAR  ON  HARLEM,"  trying  to  create  an 
impression  that  the  fight  was  not  between  the  police  and  the  criminals 
but  between  the  police  and  the  ordinary  citizens  of  Harlem. 

As  we  pointed  out  before,  they  were  not  successful  in  winning  over 
the  ordinary  citizens  of  Harlem,'but  they  were  able  to  inflame  a  certain 
segment  of  the  population  that  was  prepared  to  engage  in  antipolice 
activity. 

Once  again,  on  July  4,  1964,  within  a  few  weeks  before  the  riots, 
"COPS  TRIGGER  TWO  MORE  ^lURDERS."  Again  on  July  11, 
"COPS  BEAT  PICKETS  IN  THIRD  ST. 'WAR.'" 

The  cops  are  always  wrong.  The  cops  are  always  picking  on  in- 
nocent people,  according  to  the  Communists,  and  they  attempt  to 
infiltrate  the  society  against  the  police. 

Might  I  suggest,  sir,  that  perhaps  these  particular  issues  of  Chal- 
lenge might  be  further  examined.  They  are  rather  classic  examples 
of  this  type  of  propaganda. 

Mr.  Watson.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  we  ask  the  witness  at  this  point, 
earlier  I  believe  someone  stated  that  they  probably  had  a  subscription 
of  around  2,000  or  2^500  to  Challenge^  whatever  this  thing  is.  I  be- 
lieve it  was  the  testimony  given  by  Mr.  McNamara.  Do  you  know 
how  many  they  actually  print  and  circulate?  I  assume  that  the  sub- 
scription list  would  include  primarily  the  paying  subscribers.  Do  you 
know  how  many  of  these  they  actually  circulate  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  No,  sir.  I  think  the  indication  was  that  that  was 
the  actual  print  order,  2,500  to  3,000,  except  in  the  one  big  issue,  which 
is  this  one  of  July  25,  1964,  where  10,000  were  printed.  When  they 
say  subscriptions,  many  of  them  are  given  out  free  on  the  streets  or 
sold  on  the  streets  in  an  attempt  to  disseminate  them.  Of  course,  it  was 


982    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   2 

'    ;  •        ■  'y    '.  ■•,     .'.■■-.• 

On  Friday  night,  Novonbor  tho  Wth^  Viotar  RoAri^ups,  26,  wad  Maximlno 
Soloro,  34,  vroro  killed  ••  by  How  lork  PoUop  Patrplsan  Arlie  Bdjmindoon, 
in  tho  back  Boat  of  hln  patrol  oar,  bolow  tho  OTOfpaae  at  96tb  Street 
and  Rivorsido  Drivo,  Bdmtmdson  and  hi •• partner,  Rondald  Ullson,  naturally,  ■ 
wore  tho  only  "wltnosaoB*"  Tha  polioo  fairy  t^lo  that  ono  of  tho  young 
Puorto  Ricans  pullod  a  gun  doos  not  explain  why  it  ima*  aa  tho  polioo 
olaim,  "unfortunato  but  nooossary"  for  Bdmundaon  to  puoqp  two  aluga  into 
BOTH  tho  men  he  klllod. 

-'  Police  brutality  in  Now  York' a  Nogro  and  Puerto  Rloan  nolghborhoods  la  a 

}  day  by  day,  night  by  night,  hour  by  hour,  faot  of  Ufa*  Thla  brutality 

is  no  accident.   It  la  systomatio  brutality,  organliod  at  Polioo  hoad- 
f  quarters  and  sanotlonod  by  Ttignor  tho  "liberal,"  tho  ■roforaor,*  the 
'  "friond  of  the  pooplo,"  '  Lot  any  one  v.-ho  doubte  thla  aak  irtiy  Hbgnor'o 
oops  charge  horaoa  Into  olvll  rights  domonstratora  but  not  into  demon- 
strations of  John  Blrohora  or  oountor-revolutionary  Cubanaj  why  oops 
walk  two  abreast  in  Harlom  and  in  the  Bast  Side  and  In  the  Waat  Sldoj 
vk-hy  tho  oops  fool  froo  to  stop  any  Negro  or  Puorto  Rloan  oitison  at 
any  plaoo,  at  any  hour,  for  any  reason. 

The  answer  is  oloar  boyond  dispute i  Tho  double  nurdor  of  Viotor  Rodriguez  ■ 
and  Maximino  Soloro  is  the  result  of  a  oanqpaign  of  police  torror  dosignod 
to  keop  Nogro  and  Pv^orto  Rloan  workera  from  fighting  against  tho  corrupt 
political  and  social  forcos  that  exploit  them  In  garment  awoatshope,  and 
back  breaking  manual  labor,  that  force  them  to  live  in  rat  infested,  roach 
\,    riddon  tenements,  and  at  tha  same  time,  want  thorn  to  aooept  these  oonditions 
\)l ''  '~"-4q  si  1  once. 

V&.gnor»s  oops  -  who  aro  also  Rookofollors  and  Konnody'e  cops  -  are  ongagorf 
in  a  systematic,  organized  attempt  to  intiiaidato  How  York's  Nogro  and  Puerto 
Rloan  v/orkcrs.  Vifegnor  foare  tho  Negro  and  Puorto  Rloan  people's  strugglo 
bccauso  their  struggle  threatona  him  and  tho  landlords,  tho  businesa  intorcats, 
tho  big  money  that  he  rcprosonta* 


I  \ 


'  c  Dr  r  .■  nd  : 

1.  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  INDICT  EDMUNE60N  FOB  MURDER  and  let  his  guilt  or 
Innocence  be  decided  by  a  Jury.  If  Justice  la  not  obtained  in  this  case, 
the  Puerto  Ricans  will  be  left  with  no  protection  In  this  city.  Where 
will  tney  find  a  police  force  to  defend  them  from  the  cops? 

2.  A  FULL  I!JV«STICSATION  OF  POLICE  BRUTALITY  and  police  exceasea  by  a 
coiimlttee  of  Negro  and  Puerto  Rican  workers  IN  PUBLIC. 

Issued  by:  Viest  Side  Progressive  Labor  Club,   68  W.  106  St. 


SUBVERSIVE  mTLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    983 

not  merely  the  issues  of  the  pap)er,  but  the  leajflets  as  well,  which  dis- 
seminated the  same  line.  This  issue  came  out  during  the  riots.  This 
actually  was  distributed  during  the  riots  and  contains  the  first  riot 
pictures  that  were  taken  at  that  time. 

It  contains  the  specific  picture  that  was  described  in  the  testimony 
of  Miss  Warden.  The  policeman  appears  to  be  attacking  the  man  on 
the  ground.  But  the  policeman  is  not  swinging  his  club  at  the  man  on 
the  ground.  The  policeman  was  running  and  a  man  tripped  and  fell 
in  front  of  him.  The  policeman  attempted  to  stop  himself  from  falling 
on  the  man  and  simply  swung  around.  The  picture  indicated,  or  it 
looked  like  the  policeman  was  swinging  his  club  at  the  man  when  he  was 
not  doing  any  such  thing.  He  was  trymg  to  keep  himself  from  falling. 
The  policeman's  club  is  past  the  man  himself  and  he  could  not  be 
swinging  at  the  man  on  the  ground.  But  the  impression  given  by 
Progressive  Labor  is  that  this  is  an  example  of  a  policeman  deliber- 
ately clubbing  a  man  who  is  lying  on  the  ground. 

There  have  been  instances  in  the  past  of  pictures  taken  by  newsreel 
cameramen  and  then  cropped  to  give  a  totally  different  impression, 
taking  one  frame  out  of  a  newsreel  shot  and  giving  a  completely  dif- 
ferent picture  of  the  situation  than  would  actually  be  the  case. 

Mr.  Watson.  In  just  casually  glancing  at  one  of  these  publications, 
Saturday,  July  4,  1964,  they  even  point  out  in  comparing  capitalism 
and  socialism,  the  author  of  this  says,  under  "Capitalism":  "Every- 
body hates  a  cop."  Under  "Socialism" :  "Policemen  will  carry  no  guns." 
They  will  be  friends  of  the  people. 

I  assume  that  that  is  generally  the  line  they  carry  forward  to  ad- 
vance their  revolutionary  principles. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  Although  of  course  the  policemen  in  Red 
China  do  carry  guns. 

Mr.  Watson.  But  the  publishers  of  this  aren't  interested  in  telling 
anybody  the  truth,  are  they  ?  They  are  only  interested  in  resorting  to 
any  means,  lies  or  anything  else,  to  advance  their  cause,  and  that  is 
violent  overthrow  of  this  Government  and  agitation  of  various  ex- 
plosive situations. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir ;  Detective  Hart  testified  this  morning  he 
was  given  specific  instructions  by  Fred  Jerome  to  slant  all  stories  he 
wrote  to  push  the  line  that  Progressive  Labor  wanted  to  push. 

This  newspaper,  in  effect,  is  not  a  newspaper  as  we  know  it,  a  paper 
giving  the  news.  It  is  a  propaganda  organ  to  create  a  climate  of  opin- 
ion, to  leave  the  readers  with  certain  impressions  that  may  not  be  true, 
but  nevertheless  will  leave  them  with  a  hatred  for  the  police  or  hatred 
for  the  power  structure. 

I  think  in  the  copy  you  are  now  reading,  sir,  there  is  a  picture  on 
the  previous  page  of  a  man  with  a  bandage  on  his  eye. 
Mr.  Watson.  Yes. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  That  is  Mr.  Benny  Brazier.  If  you  just  read  the 
captions  under  the  picture  you  get  the  impression  that  bandage  was 
there  because  the  police  beat  him  up,  when  in  fact  he  testified  during 
the  Epton  trial  he  was  slashed  by  an  unknown  person  on  the  street 
and  the  bandage  covered  a  slash  that  a  razor  put  near  his  eye. 

Mr.  Watson.  And  the  police  did  not  do  this,  but  someone  on  the 
street? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Ycs,  sir.  But  the  impression  left  by  the  newspaper 
Challenge  is  that  this  is  another  example  of  the  police  beating  an  in- 
nocent man. 

88-083  O— 68— pt.  2 5 


984    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Watson.  There  is  no  question  about  it.  It  states,  "Latest  Vic- 
tim"— "New  Victims  of  Murphy's  Mob,"  and  I  guess  Murphy  was  the 
police  commissioner. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  He  was  police  commissioner  at  that  time. 

Mr.  Tuck.  I  notice  a  cartoon  labeled  "Bull  Murphy."  I  remember 
when  they  ha^  some  kind  of  difficulty  in  Alabama  that  there  was  a 
"Bull"  Connor.  This  shows  the  method  or  tactics  they  pursue  are  the 
same  throughout  the  country. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  This  was  essentially  the  precrowd  phase,  the  dis- 
seminating of  material  throughout  the  community  that  would  create 
a  climate  of  opinion  that  would  allow  a  riot  to  take  place.  Under  cer- 
tain circumstances  a  crowd  would  gather  and  a  riot  would  take  place. 
The  incident  that,  of  course,  triggered  off  the  1964  riot  was  the  shooting 
of  a  Negro  boy  by  a  police  officer. 

Now  an  extensive  investigation  was  conducted  concerning  this  inci- 
dent by  a  grand  jury  of  New  York  County,  and  a  report  was  prepared 
by  the  district  attorney's  office  of  New  York  County  concerning  the 
shooting  incident.  If  I  may,  I  would  like  to  read  a  few  excerpts : 

At  approximately  9:30  on  the  morning  of  July  16,  1964,  James  Powell,  a 
fifteen  year  old  boy,  was  shot  to  death  by  Lieutenant  Thomas  Gilligan,  a  New 
York  City  police  oflBcer.  The  oflBce  of  the  District  Attorney  of  New  York  County 
immediately  commenced  an  investigation.  An  exhaustive  search  for  all  possible 
witnesses  was  conducted. 

On  July  21st  the  second  July  Grand  Jury  began  hearing  evidence  *  *  *, 

It  goes  on  to  state : 

The  grand  jury  now  has  concluded  that,  on  the  basis  of  the  evidence  and  the 
applicable  rules  of  law.  Lieutenant  Gilligan  is  not  criminally  liable  for  the  kill- 
ing of  young  Powell.  In  view  of  that  determination  and  in  light  of  the  great 
public  interest  evinced  in  the  case,  the  District  Attorney's  oflSce  has  prepared  this 
report,  summarizing  in  detail  what  has  been  learned  in  the  course  of  the  investi- 
gation. Appended  hereto  is  a  statement  of  the  controlling  legal  principles. 

In  this  report  the  district  attorney's  office  summarized  the  evidence 
and  concludes  that  this  was  a  justifiable  homicide.  The  15-year-old  boy 
was  approaching  the  officer  with  a  knife,  refused  to  cease  and  desist, 
refused  to  drop  the  knife,  and  the  officer  was  compelled  to  shoot  in  self- 
defense. 

(Document  marked  "Eomerstein  Exhibit  No.  3."  See  pp.  1006- 
1019.) 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Coiucideutally,  at  this  time  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement  had  asked  for  a  permit  to  hold  a  street-corner  rally.  They 
asked  for  the  pennit  the  day  before  the  shooting.  They  told  the  police 
department  that  the  purpose  of  the  rally  was  to  discuss  the  civil  rights 
bill  and  its  amendments.  The  application  was  signed  by  David  Douglas 
and  asked  for  a  street  comer 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Is  that  the  same  Douglas  referred  to  this  morning 
by  Detective  Hart  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir;  it  is.  The  street  corner  that  they  requested 
was  115th  Street  and  Lenox  Avenue,  for  the  18th  of  July  1964. 

Now  we  had  some  testimony  this  morning  concerning  tlie  speeches 
of  William  Epton  at  this  rally.  There  were  some  excerpts  put  into  the 
record  concerning  the  speech  of  Epton.  I  would  like  to  point  to  one 
more  excerpt  that  is  rather  interesting. 

While  Epton  was  speaking  he  suddenly  noticed  in  the  audience  a 
New  York  City  detective  who  had  interviewed  him  at  one  time  and  had 
identified  himself  as  a  detective,  Detective  John  Rivera.  He  turned 
to  him  and  said : 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    985 

To  my  left  is  a  Puerto  Rican  policeman  in  plain  clothes.  I'm  talking  to  him  too. 
If  he  don't  know  the  history  of  Puerto  Rico  and  how  the  American  imperialism 
killed  and  brutalized  his  people  in  Puerto  Rico  just  like  they  did  the  black  men  in 
Africa,  then  he  had  better  wake  up  because  they  will  turn  on  him  when  they  come 
into  power  and  kill  him  and  brutalize  him  just  like  they  did  Albizu  Campos,  the 
great  Puerto  Rican  leader,  just  like  they're  doing  to  all  black  people,  and  he's 
not  safe.  So  I  tell  him  now  and  I  tell  my  black  brother  on  my  right  that  they 
had  better  choose  their  sides.  Because  when  the  deal  goes  down,  when  the  deal 
is  finished,  sister,  he  will  have  to  go  too  unless  he  chooses  the  right  side.  There  is 
only  one  right  side.  That's  our  side.  That's  the  cause  of  the  people  and  what  we 
demand  and  what  we  will  get.  What  we  will  take.  We  will  take  our  freedom.  We 
will  take  it  by  any  means  necessary  and  any  means  necessary  as  we  know  the 
beast  that  we  are  dealing  with  is  that  we  have  to  create  a  revolution  in  this 
country  and  we  will  create  a  new  government  that  is  run  by  the  people  . .  .  that  is 
run  by  the  black  people  and  some  of  the  poor  white  people  who  are  catching  hell 
too.  *  *  * 

He  goes  on  to  say : 

We  are  going  to  roll  on,  we  are  going  to  roll  on  to  freedom  and  independence 
and  liberation.  Those  who  are  ready  to  come  with  us  and  stand  with  us  and 
join  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  to  help  protect  the  mothers  and  protect  our 
streets  and  our  neighborhoods  they  will  give  their  money  to  these  mothers  who 
have  joined  together  to  save  their  sons.  *  *  * 

He  was  trying  to  create  the  situation  where  even  the  policemen 
present  at  the  rally  were  to  hear  his  propaganda  and  decide  that  they 
did  not  want  to  support  the  side  of  the  bad  guys,  so  to  speak,  the 
police,  but  to  join  his  side. 

Of  course  none  of  the  policemen  took  that  position.  He  was  unaware 
of  the  fact  that  one  of  his  own  security  guards  was  a  police  officer. 
Detective  Hart,  who  testified  this  morning.  But  every  opportunity  these 
people  have  they  try  to  divide  a  community.  They  try  to  create  attitudes 
on  the  part  of  the  community  against  the  police  and  against  the 
power  structure.  They  continued  to  put  out  issues  of  the  Progressive 
Labor  newspaper.  Challenge^  attacking  the  police,  saying  that  the 
police  were  responsible  for  the  riots,  and  so  on. 

One  of  the  rather  interesting  things  in  the  testimony  of  Detective 
Hart  this  morning  was  that  William  Epton  said  to  him  that  the  only 
white  people  that  will  be  permitted  to  join  Progressive  Labor  were 
those  who  were  ready  to  fight  and  die  for  Negro  freedom,  or  their 
interpretation  of  Negro  freedom . 

When  the  riot  took  place  the  white  members  of  the  Progressive 
Labor  stayed  downtown.  They  didn't  show  up.  William  Epton  was 
out  on  the  streets  because  he  was  black,  but  Fred  Jerome,  who  was 
the  editor  of  Challenge  and  one  of  the  leaders  of  Progressive  Labor, 
sat  downtown  and  wrote  editorials  in  which  he  said  things  like : 

I  advocate  precisely  that  the  people  disturb  the  peace — disturb  the  peace 
of  the  fat,  phony  politicians  and  their  gestapo  storm  of  troopers  [sic]  who  run  this 
City  for  Con  Edison,  Metropolitan  Life,  Columbia  University  and  the  other 
slumlords  and  bosses. 

I  propose  that  every  working  man  and  woman,  Afro- American,  Puerto  Rican, 
and  those  white  workers  who  believe  in  equal  justice,  select  one  day  and  on 
that  day  stay  home  from  work,  and  gather  in  one  mass  demonstration  on 
a  Harlem  street  comer  to  demand  an  end  to  the  present  police  state. 

And  when  Murphy's  uniformed  goons  attack  the  crowd  with  gas  and  guns, 
let  us  not  run  and  let  us  not  pray — let  us  fight  back.  If  they  destroy  or  injure 
life,  let  us  answer  back  in  kind.  [Challenge,  August  1, 1964,  p,  4] 

(August  1,  1964,  issue  of  Challenge  marked  "Komerstein  Exhibit 
No,  4,"  Pages  1  and  4  follow :) 


986    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  4 

NEGRO  LEADERS:  PEACE  AT  ANY  PRICE 


See  P.  5 


Mc  ■  tfei  Power  Stricture 


RALLIES  BANNED 
IN  HARLEM  :; 


WHAT  THEY  CAN  NEe  RESTRAIN 

By  Fred  Jerome,  Editor 

/  hold  that  a  Utile  rebellion  now  and  then  is  a  good 
thing,  and  as  necessary  in  the  political  world  as  storms 
m  Che  physical —Thomas  Jeflferson  in  a  letter  to  James 

Alung  with  several  other  officers  of  the  lYo^essive  Labor  Move- 
meni,  this  week  1  was  haiided  a  restraining  order  by  the  New  York 
City  PoUce,  telling  nie  I  may  not,  among  other  things,  "induce  or 
persuade...activilies...which...wiJI  or  are  likely  to.. .induce  ci\il  rebel 
lion  and  the  overthrow  of  lawful  government." 

This  order  is  based  on  Section  161  of  the  Penal  I.aw  of  New  York 
Slate  which  states  that  any  person  who  "by  word  of  mouth  or  writ- 
ing advocates,  advises  or  leaches  the.,  necessity  of  overthrowing... 
organized  govemmeni"  i»  guilty  of  a  crime. 

In  last  week's  CHALLKNCE;  we  said  that  the  big-money  boys 
downtown  were  running  scared  ("They  have  seen  the  writing  on  the 
blood-stained  walls  of  Harlem").  We  said  they  would  do  just  about 
anything  to  stop  the  people  from  "getting  out  of  hand."  Bui  we  hon- 
estly did  not  believe  that  they  would  move  so  quickly  to  destroy 
their  own  Constitution  and  principles  of  Free  Speech  and  Free 
Assembly. 
So.ebody  upstairs  must  have  pushed  the  panic  button. 

Do  these  Jokers  really  believe  they  can  lock  up  ideas  in  a  prison? 
Do  they  recJly  think  that  their  "orders'  and  "laws"  can  stand  In  the 
••y  of  history? 

TTicy  say  I  may  not  "Induce  dvll  rebellion  and  the  overthrow  of 
lawftil  govemmenL"  Just  where  is  this  "lawful  govcmment"? 

Is  that  govemmeni  "lawful"  which  shoots  down  a  15-year-old  black 
American  and  tticn  fires  into  unarmed  crowds  protesting  the  murder? 

Is  that  govemmeni  "lawful*  which  guns  down  Jay  Jenkins  on  a 
Harlem  rooftop  because  he  allegedly  is  throwing  bricks,  and  then 
Aapds  idly  by  while  hundreds  of  howling  white  fascists  throw  bricks 
•nd  bottles  at  civil  rights  pickets? 

Is  that  governiTtent  "lawful"  whosepolioe  shoot  and  kill  MaximiiK) 
Solero.  Victor  Rodriguez,  Francisco  Rodriguez  Jr. ,  William  Westbrook 
Michale  O'Brien,  Mrs.  Sierra  Montero,  and  Ralph  Brazier— all  within 
eight  months— and  whose  Mayor  then  proclaims, absoluteconfidence" 
in  the  Police  Commissioner? 

Is  thai  government  "lavvful"  which  gouges  out  Frank  Stafford's 
eye  and  then  arrests  him  for  "assaulting"  the  police? 

Is  thalgoverrunent"lawful"whichsavagely  beats  Harlem  teenagers 
tn  Its  police  prednds.threaleningtoshootthem  If  they  don't  "confess." 
ana  then  puts  theni  in  prison,  aenits  them  lawyers  uf  their  own 
choice,  and  beats  them  !>otne  nK)re  in  jail? 

Is  that  government  "lawful"  which  protects  the  slurrUords  who 
grab  their  rents  while  the  tenants  "live"  In  a  stale  of  war  with  tens 
of  thousands  of  rats  and  roaches? 

lb  that  goverriment  "lawful"  which  will  not  provide  jobs  for  ten 
miUion  able-bodied  ini-n  and  women,  and  tht-n  iclls  thi-  big  rail- 
road (and  other)  monopolies  thai  it's  perfetlly  alriehl  for  them  u> 
lay  off  SO.OOU  more  workers? 

Is  that  Kovernnieui  'lawful"  which  arri-sls  and  coiuids  civil 
rights  workers  in  Albany,  (ic^rgia  on  trumpt-d  up  "(x-rjury"  charges, 
but  will  not  arrest,  let  alum'  cotivicl.  a  single  southern  racist  for 
the  bomb  kilhng  of  six  Birmingham  children.  f<.r  the  shooting  down 


Harlem  PLM  Leader  Arrested 


BILL  EPTON  SHOWN  ADDRESSING  THE  JULY  18  RALLY  AT  IIS  ST 
AND  LENOX  AVE  WHERE  HE  ALLEGEDLY  SAID  IT  WOULD  BE  NEC- 
ESSARY TO   KILL  con    EPTON  HAS  CALLS)  THE  CHARGES  LIES. 

(Scr  tlory.  |i  3) 

,   K-;:..:,;-:  ;>:;:::::■;::;  ;:^^<::^■i  ::;:»■:■:  ;•:■:■::■:■:  ^:■:■v.^ilX.:«.^.:.^^::^«ss^L:S;^;^^ 

(>(  William  M.M)ri  in  /Mahama.  or  for  Ihe  reCTnl  Mis 
of  thrtt  ci\.'il  rights  workers? 

lb  Ihal   guveriimenl  "lawful"  which  s«ndb  planes  and  Iroops  to 
drop  flojtung  napalm  bombii  and  poison  chemicals  <.)n  the  peasant 

(Continued  on  K4) 


tissippl  murder 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    987 


RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  4 — Continued 


I   fT^rn*'**  t*Mr   Hwar 


1.-^ 


CHAl.LESr.E. 


*  fight  '*»  ulumloriti 

*  Fiffhl  an.*  f/po.r  fj 
A'f  or»  htmykt  nnii  pan' 
«d   racketeer t 

'Fight  rAo*'  «'*o  J 
urd^r  v^rkxmg  peopie   i 

*  f\0kl  /or  equal  np 


nrihnin,  luff  CO 


.  and 


^fot 


«— rtcfwg  paoptr  age 

•Ab<nealt.  Ikv 
wk*rt  tht  workiity 
toriM.  thf  potxTf.  r„HTl..  and  Ihr  .nttr.   g.,rfr%menl  on  mefy  I'Vft 
FOR  A  NEW  HAV  OF  Uhh'  WITH  NO  EXPi.OlTATIOS  OF  MAN 
BY   MAS-  FOR  SOCIALISM 


r  all— a  9ho>i 


>  hgkl  for 


Editorial 


continuMl  from  pAfr  1 ) 
vtlUfBi  oT  Vtel  Nam  whrrr  Ihr  people  mrr  nghllng  for  Ihdr  rmdomY 
"Hte  only  govcminenl  lh«l  1  rerogntoe. . - ts  ihal  pow  thai  nteb- 
Itehca  iDrikv  In  ttir  land,  wer  Ihat  whhrti  tatabUaha  ln)uitk«.* 
Hrtiry  David  Tbon>wi  ipoke  thow  words  on  Ortober  30.  1869.  aod 
I  acrec  Now  M  men  pul  ui  both  In  )all— U  Ibry  dan. 

Or  prrbapa  thry  would  rnlhcr  Imprtoon  vnt  wflh  Abraham 
UiwoJD  who  MkL  In  hU  Am  Inauforat  addrm  on  Mairh  4.  1001. 
"Tlilt  country,  wtth  lU  Insdtutlona.  brtongv  to  (he  people  wtto  In- 
haMi  It  WVneviT  ihey  ihall  grow  weary  ollhe  raMlng  govcrnmem. 
Uwy  can  enerctae  th<dr  t-oncllrullonal  ri^l  of  amending  II.  or  their 
rrvotattonary  ri^l  lo  dA«n*rTnbeT  or  ovenhrow  (I." 

In  another  tpeertt  on  Jan.  12.  IMA.  Lincoln  tald:  'Any  people 
anywherr  being  Inclined  hikI  having  (he  power  have  (he  rtghl  lo 
hse  up  and  ihakf  off  the  ekMlng  government,  and  form  a  nrw  one 
thut  KiltB  them  better  Titia  ij  a  mo«1  valuable,  r  mo«  sacred  right  — 
a  right  whk-h  we  hope  and  bHlrve  U  lo  liberate  Ihe  world.' 

U  he  were  aJlve  today,  the  rtdhunter»  would  comt  wtth  an  av 
alaiMrhe  of  reatralnlng  order*  lo  thul  the  miKilh  of  ihU  Lincoln  char- 
aclet,  BM  wdl  a»  another  bearded  radlrat  to  whom  ftome  of  thcae 
phony  Mayors,  and  Govemorfl.  and  Prvldenta  tometlnMi  pretend 
lo  pray. 

I  wUI  go  furthur  I  will  tay  'thai  whenever  any  form  of  govcnv 
a>eni  haoma  deMmclive.  It  to  the  righl  of  Ihe  people  (■■  alter  or  to 
■DolMh  II.  and  lo  Inatlhiie  new  gownmenl.  laytnic  it*  foundaUon*  on 
•uch  prtMipte*.  and  organizing  lU  p«iweT»  in  suih  forms.  a»  to  Ibem 
shall  •rem  motf  likely  to  efffl  their  aaicty  and  bupplneaa.*  WHmI  kirtd 
of  tn)itw1lun  will  Ihey  luue  tu  illetve  the  Dei  larali<>r>  of  IrtdependenceT 
li^  riw  anyone  thinks  1  am  hiding  behind  guoles  to  avoid  proae- 
mtloa  1  will  *hkle*  no  more: 

I  urge  und  wtll  corUlnue  to  urge  and  Htlem(>t  to  induce  arMi  per^ 
suiftde  puhltc  demo  net  rations  in  the  streets  of  Harlem— on  Lenoa 
Avenue,  and  on  Seventh  HJtd  Elgth  Avenue*  between  135  Street  and 
146  ftreel— until  Gilligan  Is  publlrl>  tried  for  murder  and  Murphy 
isdiamksMd 

I  iMlvotale  preciaely  thai  the  people  dttfurb  ihe  peore^-dlslurb  the 
peare  of  the  fat,  phony  polilk-turai  ar>d  Ihelr  gevtapo  storm  of  trouper* 
who  run  (his  Oty  for  Con  BdUon.  Metropolttan  Life.  Columbia 
University  and  Ihe  other  slumlords  and  bosse*. 

I  propose  thai  evcr^  working  man  and  woman.  Afro  American. 
Puerto  Rkan.  and  thoae  white  workers  who  be)lr\«  in  equul  )u«tlre. 
•elect  one  day  and  on  that  day  stay  home  from  work,  and  gather  In 
one  mnn  dmionatratlon  on  a  Harlem  street  comee  lo  dnnand  an 
end  lo  the  prcaeni  polkv  state. 

Aad  when  Murphy's  uniformed  goons  attack  the  crowd  wtth  gaa 
aad  guna,  let  us  fK>l  r^n  and  let  us  not  pray- M  us  Aghl  bac^L  If 
they  deatroy  or  injure  life,  let  us  anawer  back  In  kind. 

IMi  li  not  a  propoaal  for  wild  and  racklcu  rk>ts  in  which  the 
UDer-cDpa  will  be  able  lo  massacre  the  people.  No  II  wUI  lake  care- 
fed  plinntnc  and  H  will  Uke  organbation— through  such  group*  a« 
*e  teflMlMeme  CwKlL 

iM  a*    tuitte    arttf   organise    oar  force*  Id  Harlem,    to  Bedford 
Rocheater.    in    Birmingham.    In  every 
In   the  country,    and    let  u»  work  lo  lhr< 
end  once  und  for  .ill  (his  rul  Ihroal  *y*lem  where  one  m 
—or  one  ntoitopoty— exploHs  a  thousand  others.  L^  tisjoin  in  repli 
Ing  Ibe  prccent  state  run  by  and  for  the  biK  money  Niys.  with  a  n 
oar  rt»  by  and  for  Ihe  working  men  and  womert. 
T*ere,la    no  lawluf  gtnrernment  In  thl*  couolry  loday.  Only 


PHOTOGRAPHER 

QUESTION:  WHATISYOUB 
ATTITUDE  TOWARD  THE 
POLICE  AFTER  THE  MUR 
DER   OF  JAMES   POWELL? 


by 


I  and  the  govcm- 
mem  ol&aais.  This  murder  of 
James  Powdl  was  definitely  an 
an  of  police  brutality  or  legal 
kxed  murder  The  police  are 
dictated  by  Murphy  and  com- 
pany (o  further  the  annihilation 
ul  (he  black  people  of  New 
York  Ctly  and  apply  tbe'Qnal 
•oluUon'  to  the  Negro  problem. 
T^ih  atl  o(  murder  has  lefl 
me  personaiy  »iih  great  < 
tempt   for  the  puw 

Bkhard     jMk 

odent  the  police 
are      Instructed  ^ 

erMlre  aUscnry 

Thstr   mtaue   a 

every  human  beln^  The  que*- 

Uon  Is  who  shall  guard  the 
guards,  and  where  shall  we 
placi-  our  guards'* 


okiUoo   will   ealAUkh    one     If  that    is  civil  rebdllc 

Bioal  of  K. 
nam.    Mr     Wagner.    Mr     Hogarv    Mr.    Larkin    and   aU  of  y. 

tbsR   who   pull    the   puppeu'    strings.    I  beheve  I  have  violated 

two-fan  realralnlng  order 

I  dMJIenge  you   lo  )aU   these    words    If  vimi  cannot,  then  yo 
rvcr  )afl  tne.    I  challenge  ytni  (o  realaln  lhe«e  thought*.    If  yoi 

■ot.  then  you  can  never  reslTMln  me 


Who  Said  That? 

"If  New  York  had  a  whole  systtm  of  laws  I  con- 
sitlered  unjust,  I'd  probably  be  out  there  breaking 
tbem." 

N.\.  Police  Commissioner    Hull"  Murphy. 

quoted    in    the    NY     Po*t  of  .Juiy   26.    1964.  p.  22. 


murder  of 
>es  Howell 
burned  me  up  tven  the  police 
in  (he  srnaller  t*land-i  do  not 
art  a*  these  'very  well  trained' 
.4rm!.  xflhr  law  here  Tbepolict: 
have  been  lo  Bchvol  lo  learn 
|udo,  aOd  they're  supposed  lo 


with    ihe.r    hond« 
tf  ihe>'  ianiH>i  do  U 


:  Iha 


■  tola 
Hlrrh 
rights 
The 
shoul. 
ly    ad 


lwfARKSX»lJl.lTSHIP: 


will  be  control 
led  eventually.  Jusi  another  of 
fkcuU  whlte-washtng  wlQ  not  do 
this  tirT>e  This  killing  points 
up  the  need   lor  people  to  or 


dvU 

The 

should  be  total- 
ly  schooled. 

require 

hould  be 

least  two 

yean  of  academy  work  to  bring 

the  best  men  Into  the  position 

a  rev        of   public  rcaponslbilty.  if  ttec- 

<ke  the      e*sary     l\>llae    shouM  not  be 

allowed    lo   carry    their    guns 

>nd    after  duty  hours,  and 

o   tune   while  they    are   In 


George     Koefl.  HI^^H 

artist:       t:\'«ry  ^^H^  '^*V 

one  should  be^^^T  ■ 
very  corKemed  ^^Hf^lPi  S 
about  the  sad  ^^K   .         I 

isiic  slaying  of^^^L        ^| 

boy  b>  Ihe  sad-   'W  *  W 


with  4  QlaUofts  for  disarrr 
men  wtth  guru.  Had  liltlf  ■ 
my  Powell  been  while— he'd 


Give  Them  Arpege 


^  ttapk 


The  foUowiDg  oddnn  was  deiWered  thia  week  by 
Mayor  Robert  F.  Wagner  before  the  l\>Utkal  As»o> 
datlon  of  Youth  (PAY).  Tbi*  is  a  'noD-proftt,*  ed- 
ucationaJ  organizatloo  oompoaed  of  childrcD  of  pol- 
iticians. In  fact,  it  waa  formerly  called  Children  of 
Politiaana  (COP),  but  it*  name  was  changed  for  pub- 
Uc  relations  purpoaeft. 

The  president  of  PAY,  Linda  Bird  Johnson,  open- 
ed the  meeting.  She  staled  that  Mayor  Wagner  was  a 
national  figure  of  some  renown  and  noted  that  her 
father  had  once  paid  him  the  ultimate  compUmenl  by 
calling  him  *a  profeaslooal  horae  thkl''  She  thai  Intro- 
diinfHJ  the  Mayor  to  speak  on  "Hie  An  of  Public  Speak- 
ing ■ 

'The  rule  of  thumb  for  pubUc  speakins  is  'Avoid  th^ 
Issue,' or 'What  you  don't  say  can't  hurt  you.'  Kcnembcr. 
a  wtfU-plactxl  cIicIm.'  is  wonii  a  ibousand  words. 

"Now  let  s  gei  dowTi  t«»  ctifies.  When  called  upon  to 
speak  lu  the  public  in  a  'crisis'  situation,  you  may  fre- 
quently discover  that  you  have  nothing  lo  say  (at  least 
nothing  you  want  the  peopli>  to  hear). 

"For  example,  last  week  I  dehvered  m>  notorious... 
kafT... famous  nme-p<iint  !>peech  to  the  people  of  New  York. 
The  situation  was  sticky  in  e\ery  respect.  You  see,  I've 
been  mayor  of  New  York  rK>wforl2long  years.  And  TU 
tell  you  quite  frankly  that  it  just  doesn't  give  me  the  old 
kick  It  used  to.  1  feel  I've  reached  the  time  of  life  when  a 
man  of  my  stature  would  fit  in  well  In  national  drclea. 
"Well,  early  last  week^  I  was  Jtist  stopping  by  for  a 
beach  party  with  Franco  when  this  mess  exploded  back 
here.  Believe  me,  it  really  threw  a  wrench  in  the  works. 
"In  any  case.  It  was  time  lo  speak  to  the  dty.  Try  to 
understand,  children,  the  stickiness  of  the  stniatloa.  The 
people  were  attacking  the  police,  the  police,  (getting  emo- 
tional )  the  defenders  of  I^w  and  Oriier,  the  defenders  of 
Our  Way  of  life,  the  defenders  of  Our  Property.  (He 
pauses  to  collect  himself).  I'm  sorry  children,  I  rarely 
get  so  upeeL  It's  just  tiial  this  wbolesubjed  hits  me  right 
where  I  live— in  my  career. 

*  But,  back  to  the  speech.  Now  remember  our  rule  of 
thumb,  children.  [X>  I  spend  time  dwelling  on  police 
brutality?  Of  course  not  Law  and  Order  Is  the  problem, 
I  say.  V^'here  would  those  poor  colored  people  be  without 
Law  and  Order"!*  In  just  ten  short  years.  Law  and  Order 
has  given  them  the  school  integratioo  decision  and  the 
Civil  Rights  Bill.  That  may  not  ha\'e  changed  anything, 
but  it  sure  is  handy  for  speeches.  ((Tbuckles  happily) 
"Incase  there  are  stiU  a  few  laggards  left  at  the  end  of 
the  speech.  I  set  up  a  Shidy  Commission  which  will 
resolve  the  problemofpoUcebrutalityatsomefuture  date. 
There  is  no  crisis  so  severe,  no  emergericy  so  crttlcal,  that 
you  can't  set  up  a  S^idy  Commission  to  stall  for  time.  IT 
that  isn't  enough,  set  up  two  Study  C<>mmissions.  Then  set 
up  a  Study  Commission  to  study  the  Study  Commissions. 
Remember,  never  do  today  what  you  have  no  Intention  of 
doing  tomorrow. 

"But  always  promise  them  action.  Promise  them  lots  of 
action.  Then  promise  them  still  more  action.  Then  promise 
ihem  Immediate  action  Then  promise  them  reaction.  If 
that  won't  work,  promise  them  anything,  but  give  them 
Arpege.  Heh,  heh. 

"Anyway  kaff.  1  finally  call  on 'CJod,  the  Father  of  us 
air  to  help  us.  This  may  shock  you  now,  but  when  you 
get  into  office,  you  will  understand  the  usefulness  of  call- 
ing on  Him  in  public  occasionally. 

"One  word  about  the  delivery  of  your  talk.  Try  to 
sound  as  if'you  care.' This  has  always  been  hard  for  me, 
but    constant    practice    helps    you    get  the  hang  of  tt." 


988    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

But  Fred  Jerome  did  not  go  up  to  Harlem  during  the  riots.  He  was 
downtown  writing  editorials. 

Mr.  Watson.  Isn't  that  normal  for  the  operation  of  the  Communist 
organization  ?  They  do  not  want  to  be  identified  out  in  the  forefront ; 
they  would  rather  have  a  front  organization ;  they  would  rather  pull 
the  strings,  but  let  the  other  people  get  out  and  face  the  guns,  plus 
additionally,  I  think,  they  are  cowards.  Isn't  it  basically  the  operation 
not  to  be  publicly  identified  in  the  leadership  of  these  riots  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  In  this  case  they  did  both.  They  set  up  their  front 
organization,  Harlem  Defense  Council,  to  bear  the  brunt  of  the  activ- 
ity, but  some  of  the  activity  was  conducted  in  the  name  of  Progressive 
Labor. 

William  Epton  was  chosen  to  be  the  fall  guy,  so  to  speak.  Wliile 
the  white  leaders  of  Progressive  Labor  made  the  decisions,  William 
Epton,  who  did  have  a  fairly  hi^h  office  in  the  organization,  was  the 
man  who  was  set  up  to  go  to  jail  when  the  criminal  acts  took  place. 
The  white  leaders,  Fred  Jerome  and  Milton  Rosen,  made  sure  that 
their  tracks  were  covered  and  that  they  were  not  arrested  or  tried  for 
their  activities  in  connection  with  the  riot. 

Other  organizations  also  took  an  active  part  in  the  demonstrations. 
The  question  was  asked  this  morning  whether  the  particular  action  of 
the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  was  the  trigger.  I  think  that  there 
were  two  phases.  There  was  a  rally  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment which  set  the  tone  and  worked  up  a  crowd.  When  that  rally 
ended  another  rally  took  place  a  few  blocks  down  the  street,  a  rally 
of  the  Congress  of  Racial  Equality.  A  speaker  at  that  rally,  a  Negro 
minister,  later  told  the  Nmn  York  Times  that  if  he  had  known  what 
would  happen  he  would  never  have  gotten  up  on  the  soap  box.  The 
Negro  minister  urged  the  crowd  to  march  on  the  police  precinct,  which 
they  did. 

They  confronted  the  cops,  who  stood  there  not  taking  any  action 
against  them  until  missiles  began  flying  through  the  air  and  hitting 
cops.  Then  the  orders  were  given  to  clear  the  streets.  This  was  the 
first  violent  incident  that  night,  the  night  of  the  18th,  that  took  place 
during  the  riot.  But  I  think  it  took  place  because  of  the  two  previous 
phases,  the  Epton  speeches  at  the  Progressive  Labor  rally  and  the 
subsequent  CORE  rally  that  physically  took  the  people  down  to  the 
police  station  to  confront  the  police  department. 

Mr.  Watson.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  those  who  participated  in 
the  Progressive  Labor  rally  earlier  that  afternoon  were  also  involved 
in  the  CORE  rally? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Sir,  some  people  who  were  present  at  the  Progres- 
sive Labor  rally  were  at  the  CORE  rally.  One  ended  and  the  other 
started.  It  was  a  consecutive  situation.  The  final  step  was  the  confron- 
tation with  the  police. 

There  was  an  additional  factor.  It  was  extremely  hot  that  night, 
following  a  number  of  hot  nights.  People  were  out  on  the  streets.  It 
made  it  a  little  bit  easier  for  them  to  gather  a  crowd  and  to  create  a 
situation  where  the  crowd  became  unruly  in  the  face  of  the  police  de- 
partment outside  of  police  headquarters. 

The  next  day,  on  the  19th,  a  meeting  was  held  at  Mt.  Morris  Presby- 
terian Church,  called  by  a  number  of  organizations,  including  the 
Community  Council  on  Housing,  which  is  headed  by  Jesse  Gray,  who 
has  been  in  Washington  in  recent  months  in  demonstrations.  It  was 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    989 

at  this  rally  at  this  church  that  Jesse  Gray  made  his  famous  statement 
about  needing  a  hundred  black  freedom  fighters. 

(Leaflet  advertising  rally  marked  "Eomerstein  Exhibit  No.  5" 
appears  on  p.  990.) 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Famous  or  infamous. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  I  think  infamous  is  a  better  definition  of  the  state- 
ment. 

He  called  for  a  hundred  slrilled  black  revolutionaries  who  are  ready 
to  die  to  correct  what  he  called  the  police  brutality  situation  in  Harlem. 
He  said,  "There  is  only  one  thing  that  can  correct  the  situation,  and 
that  is  guerrilla  warfare." 

"VVTiile  at  the  same  meeting  James  Farmer,  who  was  at  that  time  the 
head  of  CORE,  got  up  and  made  a  speech.  This  is  an  excerpt  from  a 
tape  recording  that  was  rerecorded  from  a  television  broadcast.  This  is 
James  Farmer : 

Fellow  Freedom  Fighters — Sit  down  please — ^hold  it.  Now  brothers  I  think  the 
time  has  come  when  people  in  Harlem  have  got  to  unite.  We  cannot  afford  this 
division  and  this  warfare  among  ourselves.  What  I  saw  last  night.  I  saw  the 
cops  who  were  united,  and  I  .saw  black  men  and  women  running  this  way,  that 
way,  the  other  way,  undecided  which  way  they  were  going.  I  saw  New  York  night 
of  Birmingham  horror.  Now,  a  Negro  woman  walked  up  to  the  cops  last  night,  I 
was  there  for  5iA  hours  walking  the  streets.  A  Negro  woman  walked  up  to  the 
cops  and  said :  "Help  me  get  a  taxi  so  that  I  can  go  home."  A  policeman  drew 
his  revolver  and  shot  her  in  the  groin.  She  wound  up  in  Harlem  Hospital.  Yes, 
CORE  field  secretarj'  Louis  Smith  took  her  into  an  ambulance  and  took  her  to 
Harlem  Hospital.  Now,  hold  it  just  a  minute.  Now  wait.  Brothers,  I  hear  your 
anger.  You  have  a  right  to  be  angry.  But  let  me  tell  you  the  whole  story.  What 
was  happening  there.  Do  you  know  that  the  police  went  into  a  grocery  store 
and  beat  up  people  who  were  merely  customers  of  the  store.  Nobody  was  throwing 
anything.  Men,  women  and  children.  We  have  the  badge  numbers  of  these 
policemen. 

He  then  repeated  the  same  statement  on  a  television  program  on 
the  same  day  on  the  WABC-TV  program.  On  page  1  the  New  York 
Times^  July  20,  1964,  quoted  him  as  saying,  "I  saw  a  woman  who 
walked  up  to  the  police  and  asked  them  for  their  assistance  in  getting  a 
taxicab  so  that  she  might  go  home.  This  woman  was  shot  in  the  groin 
and  is  now  in  Plarlem  Hospital." 

Harlem  Hospital  reported,  according  to  the  Times^  that  there  was 
not  a  single  woman  shot  in  the  groin  admitted  to  the  hospital.  There 
were  two  women  with  superficial  leg  wounds,  but  the^e  were  not  the 
people  apparently  referred  to  by  James  Farmer. 

A  comprehensive  book  on  the  Harlem  riot,  entitled  RACE  RIOTS — 
New  York  WGJ^^  by  Shapiro  and  Sullivan,  pointed  out  that  Farmer 
charged  police  brutality  and  then  espoused  rumors  and  exaggerated 
falsehoods  as  firsthand  knowledge.  He  later  admitted  that  he  was  only 
told  the  incident  he  had  related  and  had  not,  after  all,  been  an  eye- 
witness. 

They  pomted  to  this  incident,  the  alleged  shooting  of  this  woman, 
as  one  of  the  incidents  that  Farmer  later  admitted  he  didn't  observe, 
although  he  said  he  did.  Apparently  the  incident  never  took  place. 

Now  in  an  emotion-charged  atmosphere — and  this  was  an  emotion- 
charged  atmosphere ;  the  riot  had  gone  on  for  a  full  day  by  this  time — 
I  suppose  Mr.  Fanner's  blood  was  at  a  boil  as  was  many  other  people's 
there.  It  is  this  kind  of  inflammatory  statement,  perhaps  made  with 
the  best  of  intentions,  that  angers  a  crowd  and  gets  them  into  a  situ- 
ation where  they  fight  police. 


990    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   5 


U  0, 0  i 


.-^     ...  — 


35' 


3     CHILDREN      MURDERED       IN       2      WEEKS       BY       POLICE 
POLICE  WHIPPDIG  PEOPLE'S  HERDS  FOR  MO  RBISOM  ALL  OVER  HiUUJM 

THE  POLICE  ^^"T  NOT  BE  PEHMITT^  TO  TAKE  THE  UW  INTO  THEIR  OWN  H/INDS 

Your  Son»  Daughter,  Sister,  Brother  May  Ba  leoctl 
Will  Thoor  Be  Beaten  Beyond  Recognition  By  The  Police? 
HARLEM  IS  NOk'  AN  ARMED  CAMPl  I 

ALL  OUT    FOR  MASS  RALLY 

Mi  KiOYvis  Prifsbuterian  Church 
122   Sf.J>  Mt,  horns  ParU  West 

TODAY,  SUNDAY,  TULY  19,  4  Pli 

WE  DEMAND:  1.  Coimalssloner  HurRiy'a  Reslgnatioo 


2.  Indict  Lt.  QilUgen  for  Mnrdar 

3.  Remove  Armed  Forces  frcai  Harlea 

SPEAKERS 


JSSSE  GRAY,  Harlem  Rent  Strike  Leader  PERCY  StrTTON,  11th  Aae«A>lyMa  XLeot 


REV.  RICHARD  HILDEBRAND,  President 
NY  NAACP 

HDLAII  JACK,  District  Leader,  ll^th  AD 
And  Other  Leaders 


LLOYD  DICKERSCN,  AssaMblyaan  and 
Dlstnot  Leader  of  lltb  AD 

REV.  MILTCN  J.  OlLAMISaN,  School 
Boycott  Leader 


Zk«ued  by  Ccwru'<--*7'  C-    ->     l  ot  Housing 
6  East  117  Street 


/-J 


SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLXJENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    991 

The  black  nationalist  magazine,  Liherator,  of  September  1964  [page 
4]  went  on  to  print  the  same  story.  It  said : 

A  lady  in  distress  asks,  "Please,  oflBcer,  help  me  get  a  taxi  so  that  I  can  go 

home."  The  cop  does  not  answer  but  shoots  her  in  the  groin.  *  *  * 

This  became  a  well-known  story.  The  fact  that  it  didn't  happen  did 
not  matter  too  much.  It  was  widely  believed  to  have  happened  and  this 
was  sufficient.  Farmer  later  admitted  he  did  not  have  knowledge  of 
this  incident,  but  took  the  word  of  those  who  had  advised  him  that 
the  incident  had  taken  place.  But  according  to  the  quoted  statement 
we  have,  he  said,  "I  was  there." 

The  Chairman.  And  we  have  no  proof  if  that  is  true? 
Mr.  KoMERSTEiN.  No,  sir.  His  original  statement  is  that  he  was  there 
and  saw  the  incident. 

Mr.  Watson.  That  didn't  make  any  difference.  He  had  already 
accomplished  his  objective  of  agitating  the  people.  A  later  repudiation 
of  that  would  have  no  effect  on  the  reaction  he  received  at  the  time  he 
made  it  before  the  crowd. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  No,  sir;  and  the  repudiation  took  place  months 
later,  when  cooler  heads  prevailed  and  the  riot  was  over ;  yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Have  you  ever  observed  or  heard  of  any  of  the  CORE 
officials,  James  Farmer  or  anyone  else,  denouncing  the  agitation  of 
Jesse  Gray  calling  for  a  hundred  thousand  guerrilla  fighters  and  the 
denunciations  of  the  police  by  Bill  Epton?  Have  you  ever  heard  of 
James  Farmer  or  anybody  else  repudiating  or  denouncing  those  state- 
ments and  urging  that  the  people  keep  their  cool,  so  to  speak? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Not  at  the  early  stage  of  the  riot.  At  the  early  stage 
of  the  riot  they  allowed  these  statements  to  be  made  without  challenge. 
Toward  the  end  of  the  riot,  that  is  the  next  Saturday,  the  25th  of  July, 
when  William  Epton  attempted  a  march  through  Harlem  to  attempt 
to  keep  the  riot  going — by  that  time  Mr.  Farmer  and  other  officials  of 
CORE  and  other  organizations  condemned  this  march  and  said  it 
would  only  lead  to  more  bloodshed. 

During  the  opening  hours  of  the  riot,  during  the  first  few  days  of  the 
riot,  they  said  nothing  that  would  indicate  they  were  interested  in 
moderating  the  situation. 

The  Chairman.  By  the  way,  do  you  have  any  knowledge  of  who 
this  Jesse  Gray  was  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  He  was  a  previous  witness  before  this  committee 
in  1960  and  took  the  fifth  amendment  concerning  former  membership 
in  the  Communist  Party. 

The  Chairman.  Tliat  is  a  matter  of  record  by  this  committee  ? 
Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  Also  recently  during  your  illness.  Judge,  he  led  the 
rat  brigade  when  they  moved  into  the  House  of  Representatives.  He 
was  the  one  agitating  in  the  balcony.  I  did  not  know  him,  but  he  was 
identified  by  one  of  the  Members  on  the  floor.  He  is  a  professional 
militant  rabble-rouser,  according  to  all  the  information  we  get. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Ycs,  sir.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  the  attempted  march 
by  William  Epton  on  the  25th,  or  attempting  to  organize  this  march, 
the  Harlem  Defense  Council  issued  a  leaflet  describing  how  the  march 
will  take  place ;  it  will  move  along  Lenox  Avenue,  and  so  on.  It  says : 

Tonight  at  6  p.m.  there  will  be  a  mass  demonstration  at  the  United  Nations 
to  present  to  the  Hiunan  Rights  Commission  of  the  United  Nations  the  case  of 


992    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

terrorism  and  genocide  committed  against  black  Americans,  and  the  case  of  or- 
ganized police  brutality  that  is  rampant  in  the  United  States.  The  domonstration 
[sic]  will  be  at  42nd  Street  and  First  Avenue.  For  further  information  caU  Com- 
munity Council  on  Housing,  6  East  117  Street. 

(Document  marked  "Komerstein  Exhibit  No.  6."  See  p.  993.) 

This  is  Jesse  Gray's  organization,  which  showed  an  association  at 
that  time  during  the  riot  between  the  Progressive  Labor  people,  who 
were  organizing  the  July  25  march,  and  the  Jesse  Gray  demonstration 
at  the  United  Nations  asking  the  U.N.  to  intervene  and  prevent  the 
cops  from  "committing  genocide"  against  the  Negro  people  in  Harlem. 
It  is  a  pretty  grotesque  concept,  but  I  guess  it  meant  something  to  them. 

At  the  same  time,  leaflets  were  distributed  in  Brooklyn,  this  one 
entitled  "KOP  KILLERS,"  cop  with  a  "k"  instead  of  a  "c,"  apparently 
to  imply  the  Ku  Klux  Klan,  "STRIKE  IN  BROOKLYN!" 

"1.  Remove  Murphy  as  police  boss.  2.  Jail  Gilligan  now  and  prose- 
cute him  for  murder.  3.  Take  the  gims  away  from  New  York  police." 
This  is  the  type  of  agitation. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  Y."  See  p.  994.) 

A  similar  riot  did  in  fact  take  place  in  the  Bedford-Stuyvesant 
section  of  Brooklyn  to  coincide  with  the  riot  in  Harlem. 

Other  posters  similar  to  the  "Gilligan  Wanted  for  Murder"  poster, 
or  in  the  same  format  as  the  "Gilligan  Wanted  for  Murder"  poster, 
were  issued:  "aTTEMPTED  political  ASSASSINATION  of  BILL 
EPTON,"  but  til©  words  "attempted  political"  are  small.  From  a 
distance  it  looks  like  the  assassination  of  Bill  Epton,  which  also  helped 
to  create  that  kind  of  climate  of  opinion. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  8."  See  page  995.) 

This  leaflet,  "KILLER  COP  IS  SUING  US?"  saying  that  Lieu- 
tenant Gilligan  was  suing  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  for  the 
type  of  statements  that  it  had  made  concerning  him. 

Mr.  Watson.  If  he  had  sued  he  wouldn't  have  found  15  cents  in 
the  whole  kit  and  caboodle  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement.  None 
were  reputable,  responsible  people,  were  they  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  They  may  not  have  any  money  individually,  nor 
do  any  of  them  have  responsible  jobs,  but  there  appears  to  be  a 
good  deal  of  money  floating  around  in  Progressive  Labor  circles. 
We  have  received  testimony  from  Phillip  Abbott  Luce  that  money 
would  come  in  spurts.  At  times  none  of  them  would  have  money,  and 
then  at  times  leaders  would  be  walking  around  with  stacks  of  hundred 
dollar  bills.  He  concluded  there  must  be  some  angel  putting  up  money 
for  this  type  of  activity. 

Tliey  also  have  some  expensive  printing  equipment.  They  maintain 
offices  in  the  city  of  New  York  and  other  cities  in  the  country  far 
beyond  what  an  organization  of  their  size  could  afford  under  normal 
circumstances. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  9."  See  p.  996.  Exhibits 
6, 7, 8,  and  9  follow:) 


SUBVERSIVE  rNELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    993 


ROMERSTEIN   EXHIBIT  No.   6 


Tho   event 0  cf   the   l<igt   tno   d^yg  hare    shovm  that   If  we    are   not 
orfTF.nlzed  vt    -re    Just   n  mob  nnd   are   not   In  a  position  to  properly 
derl   with   '''.'^  cnocjy. 

ORGANIZE  APARTMENTl 
BY  APARTMENT,  HOUSE 


^ 


J 


¥ 


'SE 


The  Harlem  Defense  Council  calla  on  all  black  people  of  HaBlem  to 
oet  UD  Bloc>:  Comnitteofl  ''1th  the  purpose  of  defending  erch  and  evorjr 
block  In  Hrrlcm  from  the  cops. 

/I 


/ 


mOS    DEMGNSTRATIQ 


Each  home   and  each  block  tTu<it   be   oo  orgnnlred  thrt  on   Saturday, 
July  25th,    W3  will  bo   able    to   have   an  orr^anlzed  march. 

The  ncblllratlo  n  will   stnY't  on  116th  Stroot  and  Lenox  Avenue  at 
4P.U.     0\ir  objective   will  be   the   32nd  Pet.   on  135th  Street   between 
7th  PTid  8t.h  Avenues . 

Afl  the   !Jarch  mover  u->  Lenox  Avenue   each  Block  Cantaln  will  haV* 
his  block   re^dy  to   Join  nr,  >"0  nnni   hli  block. 

For   furth-r  Infonnrtlon  ^^nd   -"ddltlonal    InGtructlone  contnct: 

HA:Li:M  rSFENSE  COUNCIL 
33*:  Lonox  Ave. 
?I  .8-2254 


TONIGHT  AT  r  p.!u.  THE ^£  .711.1  3S  A  MASS  DEMONSTRATIOM  AT  THE  UNITED- 
NATIONS  TO  PRESENT  TO  TilE  HIT.IAN  RIGHTS  COIiMISSION  OF  THE  UNITED  NATIOH* 
THE  CASE  OF  TERRORISM  Al^D^GSMOCIDE  COCilTTED  AGAINST  BLACK  AMERICANS, 
AND  THE  CASE  OF  CRGANIZED  POLICE  BRUTALITY  THAT  18  RAMPANT  IN  THE 
UNITED  STATES.  THE  DOMONSTRATION  ./ILL  BE  AT  42nd  STREET  AND  ITRflT 
AVENUE.   FOR  FUR! 


lTHEa|b|F'< 

m 


ORMATION  CALL  COKMJNITY  COUNCIL  ON  HOUSING 
y     .^        6  EAST  117  Street   FI .8-9100 


.Vfl 


v*ii 


994    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   7 


f  STRIKE  /N  BROOKLYN /-■■ 


Yovng  Negro  MorkerB  ^therinc  Tor  n  r^Uy  against  polioe  terror  at 
Nostrand  AvanuD  and  Fulton  Street  vera  gunnad  doMn  by  Murphjria 

killers. 


Dedf ord-S  tuyvesantf  like  Harlani,  la  now  an  ocOTplod  territory. 
BANES  OF  POLICE  stalk  the  connunlty. 

POLICE  TERROR  is  ta^^d  by  Wagner  aa  preserving  "law  and  order.  * 
12  YEAI6  CF  WACSS^Vha're  produced  the  Xollowlng: 
any  big  city  in  tho  oorsttry. 


1.  LOWEST  WAQE3  \i 

2.  M/iSSrVE  SLU>6. 

3.  B^!OR^C7l5  UKBanCYSKm  and  thousands  on  Helfare. 
h.  5EC3^a-.TED  SCH0OI3. 

5.    GBCWING  PQLIOB  DRim.LITT. 


mmn 


WA(1BCR*S  HAILIBO  OT  "DOL^  MURPHY*  oncoura09a  further  lauLessneaa  and 
torror.  Wa9iar*8  law  and  order  means  more  Bilsary  and  opprMsioA. 


»««««#««*« 


WE  DEMAND 


1.  RBOVS  MORPHY  aa  polioe  boas. 

2.  JAIL  QIUJQAN  NQH  and  prosecote  hln  for  mwdar. 

3.  TAKE  TUB  OOMS  AMAT  fTcn  N«m  York  polioe. 

lu  BFBAL  tb*  atir  sli  trUk  law  and  tte  no-kniMk  law. 

5.  VrXB  AIX  dUJD  JMX  miKDKB  opao  to  tha  pitfillo. 

6.  moVE  /XL  BflnuHlnRM  TBOOFEBS  tron  Dedford«atnr»— aut  IWI 

BROOKLYM-'J>ROGRESSlVE  LABOR  CLUB. 

Hoplcliis  Atmoa  (near  Tfglrtni) 
>829^  FX  8.22A 


:^r 


>?  ; 


■  •'.^J 


SUBVERSIVE 


INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    995 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  8 


ATTEMPTED  POLITICAL 

ASSASSINATION 


OF 


BILL 
EPTON 


HE  DARED  FIGHT  BACK 

HE  STOOD  UP  TO  TO6  MAM 

NOW-STANDUPFORHIM! 

DEFEND  BILL  EPTON  NOW 

Harlem  Defense  Council 

336  Lenox  Ave.      Fl  8-2254 


996    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   9 


KILLER  COP  IS 
SUING  US? 


Police  Lieut  Thomas  R  GUligan,  who  shot 
down  15  year-old  James  Powell  in  cold  blood 
last  July  18th,  is  suing  us  because  we  exposed 
him  in  our  WANTED  FORMURDER poster.  The 
five  and  one-half  million  dollar  law  suit  ia  directed 
against  the  Harlem  Defense  Council,  Jesse  Gray, 
CORE,  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  Bill 
E^ton,  the  printing  company  which  printed  the 
poster,  and  other  important  civil  rights  leaders. 
Gilligan  is  being  represented  by  Roy  Cohn  who 
was  the  top  aide  of  the  late  fascist  Sen.  McCarthy. 

BEHIND- THE-SCENE  SPONSORS 

There  Is  no  doubt  that  Mayor  Wagner  and  his 
bosses  are  behind  this  suit  The  Mayor  is  out  for 
revenge  against  those  who  exposed  him  last  sum- 
mer, and  he  wishes  to  discredit  those  who  will 
oppose  his  re-election.  To  this  end,  the  Mayor  has 
undoubtedly  instructed  the  District  Attorney  lo 
pro^at  CMBigan*  tarwyw  wtSh  top  Mcrd  idrBoci 


tion  of  New  York  State. 

JUSTICE  IS  A  RICH  WHITE  COLOR 

The  all-white,  fixed,  rich  man's  grand  jury, 
which  compiled  theserecords,  has  been  inconstant 
session  since  last  Aug^ust  3rd,  supposedly  "inves- 
tigating" the  Harlem  "riots."  As  a  follow-up  blow 
in  his  political  campaign,  Wagner  has  instructed 
Hogan  to  use  this  Grand  Jury  to  bring  down 
"inciting  to  riot'  indictments  against  some  of  the 
persons  and  organizations  named  in  the  Gilligan 
suit  In  fact,  these  indictments  have  been  prepared 
for  some  time  now.  They  are  sitting  on  the  D.A-'s 
desk.  Mayor  Wagner  has  arranged  that  they  be 
handed  down  three  to  six  months  before  election 
during  his  campaign  for  re-election.  He  hopes 
(through  these  frame-ups)  to  divert  attention  from 
his  responsibility  for  police  atrocities  and  worsen- 
ing living  conditions  in  Harlem  and  Bedford- 
Stuyvesant 

Wagfner  has  vowed  an  open  political  and  "legEil" 
attack  on  eJl  civil  rights  forces  in  Harlem  and  in 
the  City*at  large  He  has  arranged  for  virtual 
police  occupation  of  Harlem  and  Bedford-Stoy- 
vesant  this  summer  and  continuing  through  the 
election,  in  order  to  deal  with  political  forces 
which  oppose  him.  The  effects  ofthis  police  occup- 
ation are  already  being  felt.  There  has  been  a 
steady  increase  of  police  terror  and  intimidation 
In  Harlem  and  Bedford- Stuyvesant  during  the 
past  few  months. 


THEMLRFHY  SHAM 

The  Mayor  convienently  paid  off  Murphy  (with 
a  rich  man's  position)  for  a  job  'well  done',  and 
removed  him  from  the  political  picture  in  order  to 
improve  liis  election  image.  He  then  arranged  for  a 
leak  to  the  press,  suggesting  that  he  had  forced 
Murphy'  resignation  over  the  civilian  review 
issue.  This  Is  a  sly  attempt  to  fool  or  confuse  the 
black  people  of  Harlem  and  Bedford- Stuyvesant 
as  to  the  Mayor's  real  stand.  Last  summer's 
outrages,  and  the  continuation  ofpolice  terror  and 
occupation  of  Hturlem  and  Bedford-Stuyvesant 
this  summer,  put  the  lie  to  the  Mayor's  pretenses. 
It  is  proof  that  Murphy  was  following  the  Mayor's 
instructions  and  that  these  instructions  are  still 
in  force.  „ 

GOVERNMENT  BY  GANGSTERS 

Gilligan  is  a  key  pawn  in  Wagner's  political 
game.  So  is  Screvane.  Screvane's  acceptance  of  a 
$50,000  parking  meter  bribe  was  hushed  up  when 
the  Mayor,  through  the  D.A.'s  office,  arranged  a 
"cop  out"  for  the  informer  in  return  for  'clearing' 
Screvane.  The  Mayor  is  once  again  demonstrating 
that  he  Is  at  home  in  the  company  of  thieves  and 
murderers  who  aid  his  ambitious  drive  for  greater 
political  power. 

If  the  Wagner-Gilligan  slate  Is  put  back  Into 
office  in  November,  a  thousand  Gilligans  will 
Kill  again.  GILLIGAN  IS  STILL  WANTED 
FORMURDERl 


Harlem  Defense  Council 
107  West  116  St.  Harlem   USA 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    997 

Mr.  EoMERSTEiN".  Subsequent  to  the  riot,  but  related  to  the  riot  situa- 
tion, as  was  pointed  out  in  the  testimony  of  Phillip  Luce  that  was  put 
into  the  record  this  morning,  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  na- 
tional leadership  had  a  meeting  to  evaluate  what  had  happened  dur- 
ing the  riot. 

I  believe  the  key  point  in  this,  once  again  as  pointed  out,  was  that 
they  wanted  to  carry  the  riot  down  to  the  Lower  East  Side.  They 
expected  their  own  Lower  East  Side  Club  to  trigger  another  riot  to 
pull  the  cops  out  of  Harlem.  The  Lower  East  Side  Club  of  the  Pro- 
gressive Labor  refused  to  do  so,  because  they  felt  that  they  only  had 
a  small  percentage  of  the  juvenile  delinquents  and  they  didn't  have 
enough  to  make  a  significant  demonstration  in  that  area,  and  to  do  so 
would  have  resulted  m  the  cops  coming  in  and  wiping  them  out.  They 
were  not  prepared  for  a  blood  bath.  They  were  only  prepared  to  do  it 
if  it  were  a  successful  provocation  that  would  result  in  a  real  riot  on 
Lower  East  Side  and  pull  the  cops  out  of  Harlem.  When  they  felt  this 
would  not  be  successful,  they  didn't  do  it.  There  was  a  certain  amount 
of  friction  within  Progressive  Labor  ranks  because  of  the  inability  of 
the  Lower  East  Side  Club  to  do  this  for  them. 

There  is  also  another  interesting  aspect  of  this.  That  is  the  fact 
that  some  of  the  Negro  members  who  were  involved  in  the  riot,  and 
so  on,  were  beginning  to  wake  up  to  the  fact  that  the  white  leaders 
were  sitting  downtown  safe  and  sound.  One  of  those  who  raised  the 
problem  was  William  McAdoo,  who  complained  that  the  organization 
was  a  white-run  organization.  While  the  Negroes  were  out  in  the 
streets,  the  whites  were  running  it.  He  suggested  the  setting  up  of  a 
separate  black,  black  Chinese-oriented  Communist  group,  probably 
with  himself  heading  it,  that  would  carry  out  these  activities  and  take 
the  responsibility  for  them. 

Milton  Rosen,  the  Progressive  Labor  leader,  refused.  They  set  up 
black  organizations  to  work  in  Harlem,  but  they  must  be  under  the 
direction  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement.  In  other  words,  Rosen 
and  his  group  were  to  make  the  ultimate  decisions. 

These  Communists  who  call  other  Negro  people  "Uncle  Toms"  were 
constantly  taking  orders  from  the  white  Progressive  Labor  leaders 
downtown.  They  were  never  off  the  hook ;  they  were  never  allowed  to 
make  the  decisions  for  themselves. 

Other  groups  also  got  into  the  act  issuing  leaflets  of  an  inflamma- 
tory nature.  Youth  Against  War  and  Fascism,  which  is  one  of  the 
Trotskyite  Communist  youth  groups,  gave  out  leaflets  in  Harlem  dur- 
ing the  riot. 

(Leaflet  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  10."  See  p.  998.) 

A  group  called  Harlem  Parents  Committee  gave  out  inflammatory 
leaflets. 

(Leaflet  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  11."  See  p.  999.) 

The  Movement  for  the  Independence  of  Puerto  Rico  [Movimiento 
Pro  Independencia  de  Puerto  Rico],  which  is  the  Castroite  Puerto 
Rican  group,  also  gave  out  leaflets. 

This  one  has  a  very  similar  format  to  the  Progressive  Labor  and 
Harlem  Defense  Council  anti-Gilligan  leaflets.  It  has  a  cartoon  show- 
ing the  policemen,  with  Mayor  Wagner,  and  Police  Commissioner 
Murphy  in  the  back  of  them,  deliberately  shooting  Puerto  Ricans. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  12."  See  p.  1000.) 

One  ^oup  that  was  set  up  during  the  riot  was  called  the  Harlem 
Solidarity  Committee.  It  included  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement ; 
Jesse  Gray ;  Youth  Against  War  and  Fascism ;  the  Spartacist,  which 


998    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

is  another  Trotskyite  Communist  splinter  group ;  and  Daniel  Watts, 
the  editor  of  Liberator  magazine,  which  is  a  black  nationalist  maga- 
zine of  pro-Communist  orientation. 

(Press  release  of  Harlem  Solidarity  Committee  marked  "Romerstein 
Exhibit  No.  13."  See  p.  1001.  Exhibits  Nos.  10-13  follow :) 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.    10 

WHO  KILLED 
JAMES  POWELL^^ 


Janc8  Powell  -  15  years  old.' I  -  a 
ninth  grado  atudont  -  Is  doadl  Hit 
Ufa  waa  cut  ahort  tiy  a  policonan'a 
bullot.  He  is  dead-  while  the  r»- 
clst  who  Insulted  him  and  the  trl^- 
gor-happy  cop  who  shot  hln  are  set 
free. 


Jaaes  Powell  was  killed  hjr: 

*A  R  ACIST  COP  who  says   It  was  his  duty  to  protect  a  white 
racist  building  a\q>orlnteiidant  and  shoot  a  flfteoi  year  old 
Black  youth  to  death. 


James  Powell  was  killed  V 

*A  tA^CIST-rm  FPU  CI  'OttO  t1^  raorults  aaa  tralna  paopl* 
ioT  hrutallk/.  knf  decent  hdoaar being  would  quit  befor*  tvo 
weeks  on  tha  foroe  -  a  gai^  ot  storm  trooper*. 


B*  Powell  waa  killed  tgr: 


sfOUTIC^  aOMie  wha  pralaa  low'a  K.r.K.    la  U«a  ani  aaOl 
on  tbaoto  >M  ^iov«ber*,  and  Mar  polltlelaoanwbo  Barely  look 
tha  other  way  after  aaofa  killing. 


Jamas  Powell  waa  killed  tgri 

'I  ■•, 

^amOHA-IBX     BOetgES,     who  o^^tlis  •weatshopa,  banka,  aad  storaa 
and  pay  the  police   that  prota^Ttbe  rich  aiul  harasa  the  poor. 
They  use  the  taotlc   of  divide   and  rule. 

Their  nevapapara  preach  racism  to  try  to  pit 
the  white  workers  against   their  Blaok  'brotbara. 
They  *-^»^*  inwnt   scare  stories,   mi^nify  "^""^ 
iDoldantt  with  huge  headUnaa,   and  abed  phoaay 
taara  about   ■aubway  vlolsnoe'.   Bat   thay  narrar  aa^ 
wfaara  the  continuoua  Tiolenoa  ooosa  froa  -  frosi 
tha  raolst  oop  tha*  they  try  to  daplot  ••  ■ 
•rlotlB*. 

their  police  foroes  enf oroa  thalr  imolai  ayata* 
throx^ioat  tha  ooustry  by  kllili^  and  arraatlag 
the  poor  peopla  whoo  tha  boaaaa  hare  diliau  te 
dasparation.  Sia  polloa  are  glT«n  tha  im\  at 
a«rlk»-br«aksr  in  tha  a«r«gcl«  tor  if  H>|  <•  *< 
tarrorlslng  pMpIa   Into  fa«r  at  protect. 

Jama  ?oh«U  waa  tba  lataat  o&aoalW  In  the  wmr  vt  tha  boaasi  asalaat 
tha  worksra  a:^:  wataplo^ad,  young  aad  old,  Xlaok  aaA  «ld.t«.  fk*  oalr 
way  to  t\4tA  agalsH  thia  war   on  tha  ■assaa  la 

ganlsatlao  to 


-^'/f 


TfJCTTH  A(VW^  WAR   ^ITO  T13CISH  BOX  3lT    Old    Ghelsen    3t«tlon 

!*•«   York    11,    N.T. 


SUBVERSIVE  INELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    999 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.    1  1 


TO  THE  PEOPLE  OF  HARLEM; 

THE  HARLEM    PARENTS    COMMITTEE    ASKS  — 

1.  HOT  MUCH  LONGER  WILL  IE  ALT.0V7  QT? 'UI//E2  TO  m  1^'^:::^?^  i^TO  KILLED? 

2.  HOW  IIAHY  IDRE   SOUS  WILL  DLL— O-ClJJi-  Da7;,I,    TOL;:-^J.OW  j?.  TriS  JSTJCT  DAYt 

3.  WHAT  LiUST  m.  DO? 


^^^  of  hMALmi\ 


WE  MOST  GO  TO  CITY  HALL  — — — —  WE  MUST  DEMAND  — — — — 

1,  TH2  hied: ATE  SIjSIBNSICIT  AlTD  INDICTIIiTT  OF  LT,   GILLIGAN 

2,  THE  ILflEDIATE  ni  S'JISSAL  OF  CCl nil 3 STOKER  IMIPHY 

3,  THE  liJEDIATE  ESTABLISHIiENT  OF  A  CIVILIA1.I  REVIE.7  BOARD 
CH0S2W  BY  THE  PEOPLE 

WE  HOST  KEEP  COIUNG  AITD  COMING  UNTIL  HARLEM  IS  A  RESPECTED  COHIIDNITY 


WE  HEAR  MR.  LYNCH  IS  "SORRY*" 

WE  TOO  ARE  3DRRY  FOR: 

JAIES  P017ELL 

lEDGAT.  EVERS 

THE  BIRl.iINGHAL'  CHILDREN 

OllR  3  IlSSIilG  PEOPLE  IN  IHSSISSIPPI 

Ei'METT  TILL 

REV.   KLUNDER 


JOIN  US 
AT 

CITY   HALL 
NOW 


3-083  0—68 — pt.  2- 


1000  SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.    12 

''tL  CRIMEN  DEL  TUNEL" 

Los  Asesinos  Tienen  Que  Ser  Ajusticiados: 


Movimiento  Pro  INDEPENDENCIA 


DE   PUERTO    RICO 

•IX       274  NFW      YORK      24       N 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1001 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.    13 

81-633  r^Uygg  for  rplorr.e  J^turdav.  July  2^ 

DfiiBBnd  the  reaoval  of  the  rioting  cops  fron  Harlem! 

flupi>ort  *iie  rl?ht  of  the  cl-i3'..n3  of  the  g^fttto  to  defond  thaneelv-sl 

Anr.c'jncenrnt  of  a  gfment  center  rally  in   support  of  the  citlzent  of 
ill  rlem  « f.l  Bodford-Stuyvessnt  «?Rli.st  police   terror. 

TnradPY  r-oun.  July  <^.B  ct  the  iJV    -omftr  of  2i't\  St.   (nd  8th  Avo. 

SPEAKERS  will   in'-iudt: 

Milton  iloean  -  chalmen  of  Progressive  Labor  Movtnont 
Key  Mtrtin  -  chttlTiMr.  of  Youth  Ageinot  'Wer  and  ?Ba''ian 
Jessie  Cray  -  Harlem  r^nt  strike  lecdtr 
Juiae-3  Robert  sun  -  editxjr  ol'  the  LLirttn.i8t 
Conrfid  Lynn  -  noted  ''Ivi.l  rights  tvttomey 
plus  otherr. 

spofjronED  by  tj-.p  .1  .hi.-2.-:  scLii .  paTY  co:*iim2 

t'upoor^cr.';  incl'jido: 

Brooklyn  <"lvil   Rights  Defense  Conn. 
Coiiiaitt«i:   for  Peace  Orggnization-Ereo 
Jecsie  Gray 

Progrcaaive  Lfbor  Movement 
SDfcrt£.cist 

Youth  Against  War  end  FosclBm 
Dan  Uctts,  editor  of  Liberfator 
for  more  in  forma  titm,  //    »^^ 


1002    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

In  the  course  of  the  investigation  of  the  Harlem  riots,  about  a  dozen 
members  of  Progressive  Labor  were  brought  before  the  grand  jury 
to  answer  questions  concerning  their  role  during  the  riots  and  infor- 
mation that  they  might  have  concerning  the  activities  that  Progressive 
Labor  has  taken. 

They  refused  to  answer  the  questions,  although  they  were  granted 
immunity.  They  have  since  been  convicted  of  contempt  of  the  grand 
jury.  Some  are  serving  jail  sentences,  some  are  still  out  on  appeal. 

The  Supreme  Court  heard  the  case  of  the  first  group  that  went  up  on 
appeal  and  upheld  the  conviction.  Some  of  the  testimony  that  mem- 
bers of  Progressive  Labor  refused  to  answer  was  this  one  to  William 
McAdoo,  which  is  contained  in  the  indictment : 

Q.  Mr.  McAdoo,  during  the  July  riots  in  New  York  County,  were  you  present 
at  the  oflSces  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  on  Lenox  Avenue,  and  did  you 
at  that  time  demonstrate  how  a  Molotov  cocktail  is  made  ? 

A.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  under  the  same  grounds. 

He  had  already  been  granted  immunity.  Had  he  answered  "yes,"  he 
could  not  be  prosecuted  for  his  role  in  that  particular  act.  He  felt  it 
necessary  to  protect  the  organization  by  refusing  to  answer.  This  was 
not  a  fifth  amendment  situation.  There  was  no  criminal  proceeding  that 
could  be  taken  against  him.  He  had  immunity,  but  to  protect  the  orga- 
nization he  was  prepared  to  go  to  jail  for  contempt  of  the  grand  jury. 

Other  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  group  had  similar  type 
questions  asked  of  them  and  questions  relating  to  the  publication  of 
the  various  inflammatory  leaflets.  They  once  again  refused  to  answer 
and  were  convicted  of  contempt  of  the  grand  jury. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  permission  is  requested  to  accept  these 
documents. 

The  Chairman.  In  order  to  determine  the  pertinency  of  the  refusal 
or  the  invocation  of  the  fifth  amendment,  will  you  read  a  sample  of 
questions  that  they  refused  to  answer  in  addition  to  the  one  you  just 
read? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir. 

This  was  a  question  to  David  Douglas : 

Mr.  Douglas,  did  you  agree  and  conspire  with  William  Epton  to  incite  further 
rioting  in  New  York  County  during  July  of  this  year? 

His  answer  to  this,  after  being  granted  immunity,  was : 

As  I  said  before,  Mr.  Phillips,  I  think  this  hearing  is  illegal  and  unconstitu- 
tional. I  have  seen  what  reports 

The  Chairman.  We  have  heard  tliat  said  so  often. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir;  this  is  to  a  grand  jury  instead  of  to  the 
committee. 

The  Chairman.  In  other  words,  they  accused  the  grand  jury  of 
being  an  unconstitutional  assembly. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  That  was  the  case  of  Douglas. 

The  Chairman.  That  is  a  good  one. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Similar  questions  were  asked  of  other  members. 
For  example,  at  one  point  Vivian  Anderson  was  asked  a  question  and 
she  decided  she  didn't  like  the  question  at  all.  She  said:  "I  am  not 
goin^  to  answer  any  more  questions  except  as  tliey  pertain  to  my 
position  and  conduct  in  office  *  *  *." 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  003 

That  is  in  connection  with  her  position  as  a  teacher.  She  simply 
refused  to  answer  questions  related  to  the  activities  during  the  riots. 
She  was  asked :  "Did  you  and  William  Epton  agree  to  incite  further 
riots  in  New  York  County  in  January  of  this  year?"  She  said,  "I 
refuse  to  answer." 

The  Chairman.  That  was  before  a  grand  jury  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  These  are  excerpts  from  the  grand  jury 
minutes  that  were  placed  in  the  indictment  of  these  people. 

The  Chairman.  So  that  is  part  of  the  indictment. 

Mr.  KoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir;  this  is  in  the  indictment,  a  matter  of 
record. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  permission  is  requested  to  accept  these 
documents  referred  to  by  Mr.  Romerstein. 

The  Chairman.  They  will  be  received  in  evidence  and  marked  re- 
spectively in  the  order  of  their  reference  by  the  witness. 

(Documents  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibits  Nos.  14— A  through 
14-E,"  respectively.  See  pp.  1020-1030.) 

Mr.  Watson.  Mr.  Chairman,  may  I  at  this  point  ask  the  witness 
whether  or  not  he  knows  of  any  group  or  organization  other  than 
the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  and/or  organization  under  its  di- 
rection which  either  called  a  meeting  or  circulated  inflammatory  leaf- 
lets prior  to  and  during  the  riots  which  occurred  in  July  of  1964  in 
Harlem  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Well,  sir,  the  most  inflammatory  leaflets  were  put 
out  by  Progressive  Labor.  But  other  inflammatory  leaflets  were  put 
out  by  CORE.  Of  course,  CORE  did  hold  that  meeting  immediately 
prior  to  the  confrontation  with  the  police. 

Leaflets  were  given  out,  and  some  of  them  I  have  introduced,  by 
the  various  Trotsky  organizations.  Youth  Against  War  and  Fascism, 
Jesse  Gray's  leaflet  saying  the  police  are  engaged  in  an  act  of  genocide 
against  the  Negro  people.  All  these  leaflets  were  distributed  during 
the  riot  and  helped  create  an  inflammatory  situation  that  helped  keep 
the  riots  going. 

(CORE  leaflet  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  15"  appears  on  p. 
1004:) 

Mr.  Watson.  Could  we  assume,  or  conclude  from  the  publications 
that  jou  have  inserted  in  the  record  and  that  you  have  given  the 
committee  here,  that  the  main  thrust  came  from  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement  and/or  its  affiliated  groups  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir.  There  is  no  question  about  that.  Pro- 
gressive Labor  was  the  prime  mover  in  these  activities.  Even  the  ac- 
tivities of  some  of  these  other  groups  were  coordinated  with  Progres- 
sive Labor  and  in  cooperation  with  Progressive  Labor.  Epton  took 
the  lead ;  he  took  the  responsibility  for  organizing  much  of  the  demon- 
strations that  went  on  and  getting  material  printed,  and  so  on. 

Mr,  Watson.  What  subsequently  occurred  during  the  riots  fol- 
lowed the  pattern  or  the  plan  as  outlined  earlier  by  Bill  Epton  and 
the  Progressive  Labor  Movement.  Whether  or  not  it  was  directed  by 
them,  did  it  follow  the  pattern  and  the  plan  that  they  established  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir.  It  followed  the  type  of  activity  that  they 
were  advocating,  and  had  been  advocating  for  many  months  prior  to 
the  riot.  We  received  testimony  from  Detective  Hart  that  actual  train- 
ing was  given  in  the  use  of  Molotov  cocktails.  Attempts  were  made  to 
train  people  in  the  use  of  weapons.  These  actions  did  in  fact  take  place 
during  the  riots.  Molotov  cocktails  were  thrown  at  the  police.  There 


1004    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

ROMERSTEIN   EXHIBIT  No.    1 5 


1    Pol,C£M5N  VJHO    Hm/£  SHC-r 
hM>^    K'l    LEO  B6    RPPRMSWbEb 

•top  Pounce  oftic'rls^nd 
p-oft  A  Ovu-IAM  Review  0o/^«D 

WILL     B&     Mfl^'^ 


WILL     G£     HELD    /^^   ^^^     ^^^^" 
OFFICE    -  sol    \A/.  'c^^    ST, 

ST.  NiCHr.      /i-S    /U£WU£5y 

5rAV     ^W'^"'        '^'^   STo^f3 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  005 

was  sniping  from  rooftops  and  throwing  of  missiles  at  the  police  from 
rooftops,  as  Progressive  Labor  advocated. 

Last  week  the  committee  heard  the  testimony  of  the  sociologist,  Mr. 
Jones.  This  riot  went  through  those  same  phases  that  he  outlined :  The 
precrowd  phase  of  organizing  and  creating  a  climate  of  opinion 
against  the  police ;  the  crowd  phase,  a  hot  night,  people  began  to  gather 
just  to  get  out  of  their  hot  apartments  and  out  on  the  streets.  An  inci- 
dent takes  place,  such  as  the  shooting  of  the  Powell  boy,  and  the  next 
day  the  crowd  is  worked  up  in  a  direct  confrontation  with  the  police. 

Mr.  Watson.  In  other  words,  the  Harlem  riot  followed  exactly  the 
criteria  laid  down  by  the  witness,  Mr,  Jones,  specialist  in  this  field, 
of  a  Communist-manipulated  riot  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  I  would  say  it  was  a  classic  pattern. 

Mr.  Watson.  Thank  you,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  I  have  one  more  question,  sir.  These  documents  that 
you  have  introduced  and  which  are  very  meaningful,  I  take  it  they 
are  not  all  the  documents  that  could  be  produced  by  you  on  the  sub- 
ject, but  it  is,  rather,  a  sampling  coming  from  a  greater  volume  if 
they  were  all  here  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  We  have  collected  a  tremendous  amount 
of  material  of  this  type  that  had  been  disseminated  during  that  time. 
We  picked  out  sample  copies  for  presentation. 

The  Chairman.  Thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  that  concludes  the  presentation  of  Mr. 
Romerstein. 

The  Chairman.  I  wish  to  thank  you  ever  so  much.  Not^  only  are  jou 
a  credit  to  your  country,  but  you  are  a  credit  to  this  committee  as  an  in- 
vestigator. I  compliment  you  and  thank  you  very  much. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Thank  you,  sir. 

4:  *  *  *  *  *  *  I 

The  Chairman.  Off  the  record,  gentlemen. 

There  is  a  quorum  call  going  on.  I  think  I  will  try  to  make  it. 

The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  20  minutes. 

(Brief  recess.) 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  be  in  recess  until  10  o'clock 
tomorrow  morning. 

(Wliereupon,  at  4:50  p.m.,  Tuesday,  October  31,  1967,  the  commit- 
tee recessed,  to  reconvene  at  10  a.m.,  Wednesday,  November  1,  1967.) 

(Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  3,  introduced  on  p.  984,  and  Exhibits  Nos. 
14-A  through  14-E,  introduced  on  p.  1003,  follow :) 

iThe  testimony  of  the  n«xt  witness,  Robert  H.  Mehaffey,  is  printed  in  part  1  of  these 
beatrlnigs.  See  p.  863. 


1006    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   3 

REPORT  BY  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY 
OF  NEW  YORK  COUNTY 


At  approximately  9:30  on  the  morning  of  July  16,  1964,  James 


Powell,   a  fifteen  year  old  boy,  was  shot  to  death  by  Lieutenaint  Thomas 
Gilligan,   a  New  York  City  police  officer.     The  office  of  the  District 
Attorney  of  New  York  County  immediately  commenced  an  investigation. 
An  exhaustive  search  for  all  possible  witnesses  was  conducted. 

J"     On  July  21st  the  Second  July  Grand  Jury  began  hearing  evidence 
presented  by  Assistant  District  Attorney  Alexander  Herman,   Chief 
of  the  Homicide  Bureau,   and  Assistant  District  Attorney  Martin  J. 
Heneghan.     The  jury  held  fifteexi  sessions  and  heaid  forty-five  witnesses 
Under  the  law,  the  testimony  of  these  v/itnesses  before  the  grand  jury 
is  secret.     However,   all  known  witnesses,   including  these  referred 
to  the  office  by  various  organizations,  were  interviewed  by  members 
of  the  District  Attorney's  staff. 

The  igrand  jury  now  has  concluded  that,  on  the  basis  of  the 
evidence  and  the  applicable  rales  of  law.  Lieutenant  Gilligan  is  not 
criminally  liable  for  the  killing  of  yojng  Powell.    In  view  of  that 
determination  and  in  light  of  the  great  public  interest  evinced  in  the 
case,  the  District  Attorney's  office  has  prepared  this  report,   summarizing; 
in  detail  what  has  been  learned  in  the  course  of  the  investigation. 
Appended    hereto  is  a  statement  of  the  controlling  legal  principles. 

The  Scene  and  the  Incident  Preceding  the  Shooting 


Although  there  was  disagreement  among  many  of  the  witnesses 
with  respect  to  the  details  of  the  shooting  itself,  there  was  substantial  , 
agreement  concerning  the  essential  facts  of  the  incident  which  preceded 
the  encounter  of  James  Powell  and  Lieutenant  Gilligan. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1007 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
At  about  9:15  on  the  morning  of  July  16,  1964,  the  superintendent 

of  215  East  76th  Street  and  three  other  buildings  on  the  block,  had 
commenced  his  morning  task  of  watering  the  flowers  and  plants  in 
front  of  No.   211  and  the  two  trees  in  front  of  No.   215.     Across  the 
street  on  the  south  side  of  the  bbck,  and  somewhat  east  of  No.  215,  is 
the  Robert  Wagner  Junior  High  School.    As  was  common,  a  number  of 
the  summer  session  students — estimates  ranged  up  to  one  hundred--were 
standing  about  on  both  sides  of  the  street,  leaning  against  cars,  or 
sitting  on  stoops.    Whether  intentionally  or  not,  the  superintendent 
wet  a  few  of  the  children  who  were  in  the  immediate  vicinity.     Some  of 
the  youngsters  then  began  throwing  garbage  can  covers  and  bottles. 
One  boy  came  at  the  superintendent  with  a  lid  in  one  hand  and  a  bottle 
in  the  other.    Dropping  the  hose,  and  running  into  No.  215,  the 
superintendent  was  hit  in  the  shoulder  by  the  bottle,  while  the  cover 
broke  one  of  the  panes  of  the  outer  door  of  the  building. 

No.  215  is  an  apartment  building.     Two  steps,   a  total  of  ten  aoid 
one-half  inches  in  height,  lead  to  the  stoop  landing,  which  is  four  feet 
three  and  one-half  inches  deep  and  four  feet  nine  inches  wide;  another 
step  leads  to  the  outer  door.     On  each  side  of  the  landing  is  a  wall  two 
feet  four  and  one-half  inches  high  topped  by  a  railing  two  feet  high. 
From  the  building  line  to  the  curb  is  a  distance  of  fifteen  feet  two 
inches.     On  the  west  side  of  the  stoop  at  No.   215  is  a  television  service 
store  and  on  the  east  side  a  cleaning  store.     Parked  in  front  of  the 
building  that  moraing  was  the  service  truck  of  the  TV  store,   and 
behind  the  truck  a  passenger  car. 


_  ll 


1008    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

.         RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 

Medical  and  ballistics  evidence 
! 

An  autopsy  was  performed  by  a  Deputy  Chief  Medical  Examiner, 

Examination  of  the  body  showed  that  Powell  was  5  feet  6  1/2  inches  tall 
and  weighed  122  pounds.     He  had  been  struck  by  two  bullets.    One  bullet 
entered  the  lower  part  of  the  right  forearm,  just  above  the  back  of  the 
wrist  and  came  out  the  other  side.     This  bullet  then  pierced  the 
deceased's  chest  above  the  right  nipple,  and  came  to  rest  in  the  left 
lung.     Death  as  a  result  of  this  wound  alone  would  have  followed  anytime 
within  minutes  to  a  half  hour.     The  other  bullet  entered  just  above  the 
navel  to  the  left  of  center,  and  emerged  at  the  opposite  point  in  the 
back,  having  pierced  the  abdomen  and  a  major  vein.     This  wound  could 
likewise  have  been  fatal.     There  was  no  evidence  on  the  body  of  smoke, 
flame  or  powder  marks,  thus  indicating  that  both  bullets  must  have 
jl  travelled  more  than  a  foot  and  a  half  before  striking  Powell. 

A  ballistics  expert  examined  Powell's  clothing  in  the  hospital. 
There  were  no  powder  bums  or  scorch  marks  on  the  clothing,  and, 
therefore,   in  his  opinion,   the  gun  must  have  been  farther  than  two  feet 
from  Powell's  body  when  fired.     A  survey  was  made  of  the  hallway  of 
No.   215.      Lodged  in  the  jamb  of  the  inner  door,   forty  inches  above  the 
floor,   was  a  deformed  .  38  caliber  bullet.     This  bullet  had  first  pierced 
a  glass  panel  of  the  outer  door,   thirty-five  inches  above  the  floor.     Thus, 
j  the  bullet  had  been  travelling  at  an  upward  angle.     The  position  of  the 
bullet  and  the  depth  of  its  penetration  in  the  jamb,   as  well  as  the  size 
and  shape  of  the  hole  in  the  outer  pane,  nullified  any  possibility  that  it 
had  first  passed  through  Powell's  body  before  reaching  the  hallway. 
The  absence  of  any  impact  marks  on  the  newly  cemented  sidewalk  negated 
any  possibility  that  Powell  had  been  shot  in  the  abdomen  while  lying  on 
the  ground. 

li 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1009 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
Two  of  the  bullets  were  too  deformed  for  comparison.     But 

ballistics  tests  of  the  bullet  lodged  in  the  chest  proved  that  it  had 
been  fired  from  Gilligan's  gun  which,  when  examined,  contained 
six  cartridges,   three  discharged  and  three  live. 

The  following  day  Gilligan  was  examined  hy  a  doctor,   after 
having  received  first  aid  the  day  before  at  Roosevelt  Hospital,   where 
a  splint  had  been  applied  to  his  right  hand  and  forearm.     The  doctor 
diagnosed  the  injury  as  abrasion  of  the  right  upper  forearnn,   superficial 
Loss  of  skin  on  the  right  upper  forearm,   contusion  and  sprain  of  right 
land  and  wrist,   and  recurrence  of  a  previous  sacroiliac  injurj'  resulting 
in  a  severe  twisting  of  the  back.     The  tissues  of  the  right  arm  gave 
evidence  of  a  sharp  blow  on  the  lateral  margin  of  the  right  hand  and 
'o  rearm. 
Students 


Fifteen  teenagers,   eight  girls  and  seven  boys,   were  questioned. 
Almost  all  had  been  friends  of  Powell,   or  had  known  kim  by  name  or 
sight;  all,   except  one,   were  summer  session  students  at  the  school. 

Two  boys,   friends  of  the  deceased,   described  his  actions  shortly 
breceding  his  encounter  with  Lieutenant  Gilligsin.     That  morning  they 
lad  travelled  with  Powell  from,  their  homes  in  a  housing  project  in  the 
Bronx  to  the  school.     Powsll  showed  them  two  knives,   one  with  a  red 
landle,   the  other  black- handled,   and  let  each  of  them  keep  one  for  him. 
\fter  the  superintendent  had  fled  into  the  building,   Powell  r;rossed  to  the 
school  side  of  the  street  a.nd,   according  to  the  boy  who  had  it,   demanded 
he  red-handled  knife,   stating,    "I  am  going  to  cut  that  ***.  "    The  boy 
baid  he  pretended  not  to  have  the  knife.     After  some  argument,   Powell 
ipproached  the  other  boy  who  said  Powell  asked  for  the  black-handled 
cnife,   adding  that  he  would  be  right  back.     The  ooy  gave  him  the  knife 


1010    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
and,   shortly  thereafter,   Powell  was  seen  crossing  the  street,   opening 

and  closing  the  blade.     A  girl,   who  was  following  behind  him,   stated 

Powell  told  her  that  he  was  going  to  talk  to  the  man.     Pleading  with  him 

not  to  go,  because  there  was  liable  to  be  trouble,   she  said  she  grabbed         | 

at  him  in  an  unsuccessful  attempt  to  restrain  himi. 

The  recitals  of  what  occurred  at  this  point  differ.     The  girl, 

who  v/as  following  Powell  and  who  had  now  stationed  herself  near  the 

stoop,   stated  that  he  walked  up  the  steps  of  No.   215,   opened  the  door  all 

the  way,   at  which  time  Gilligan,   coming  from  the  direction  of  the  TV 

store,   stopped  in  front  of  the  building,   and,   still  on  the  sidewalk,   shouted 

to  Powell,   causing  him  to  turn  around.     Three  students  agreed  with  this 

account.     But  three  other  students  claimed  that  Gilligan  was  already  on 

the  stoop  facing  the  street,   when  Powell  approached  the  building.     Another 

three  youngsters  reported  that  both  were  on  the  sidewalk,   facing  each 

other  in  an  east-west  direction,  when  the  shooting  started.     And,   finally, 

two  girls  were  positive  that  Gilligan  followed  Powell  out  of  the  building 

before  he  shot  him. 

In  any  event,   several  students  recalled  that  the  girl  by  the  stoop 

yelled  to  Powell  that  the  man  had  a  gun.     According  to  her,   Powell,   having 

turned  around,   then  raised  both  hands  whereupon  Gilligan  walked  up  the 

stoop  and,   approximately  a  foot  and  a  half  away  from  Powell,   pushed 

his  right  hand.     A  boy,   standing  on  the  school  side  of  the  street  said- he 

also  saw  Gilligan  grab  at  Powell's  right  hand,   while  others  claimed  that 

i    he  turned  the  boy  around  so  as  to  face  him.     A  number  of  the  students 

I     recounted  that  Powell  was  either  waving  or  raising  his  arms,   and  one  saii^ 

he  was  flinging  them  as  if  to  strike  at  the  officer.     None  saw  a  knife  in 

I     Powell's  hand  at  this  point,   although  one  boy  said  he  might  have  had  a  beeir 

can  in  his  hand,   and  one  girl  claimed  that  in  fact  he  was  holding  a  beer  can 
I 
I  -5- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1011 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
in  his  right  hand.     Two  students  later  saw  a  knife  lying  m  the  street 

near  the  curb. 

Regardless  of  the  nature  of  the  encounter  or  the  position  of  Powell 

and  Gilligan,   it  was  undisputed  that  a  shot  was  soon  fired.     According  to 

the  girl  by  the  stoop,   the  officer  held  his  gun  at  waist  level  and  fired 

one  shot,   causing  Powell  to  fall  to  the  sidev/alk.     Seven  students  only 

heard  the  first  shot,   their  attention  having  been  diverted,   or  their  view 

having  been  blocked  hj  other  people  or  the  parked  vehicles;  seven 

others  simply  stated  that  the  officer  fired  a  snot.     One  of  the  latter 

group  expressly  noted  tliat  the  officer  pointed  the  gun  at  Powell's  right 

hand  and  then  fired. 

Almost  all  the  students  agreed  that  Powell  fell  after  the  fiist  shot. 
According  to  the  most  frequent  account,   after  Powell  fell  to  the  sidewalk 
on  his  hands  and  knees,  the  officer,   still  on  the  steps,  pointed  the  gun 
down  and  fired  two  more  shots  at  Powell's  back.     Tv/o  youngsters  said 
Powell  had  first  dropped  to  his  knees  clutching  his  abdomen.     One  girl 
was  certain  that  Powell  was  lying  on  his  back  when  Gilligan  fired  the 
final  two  shots  down  at  him.     Altogether,   ten  students  reported  that 
Gilligan  fired  two  shots  at  Powell  when  he  was  down  en  the  ground  after 
having  fallen  from  the  first  shot.     But  one  of  these  witnesses  was  shown 
photographs  of  the  hallway,   proving  a  bullet  had  pierced  a  window  of 
the  outer  door  and  had  lodged  in  the  jamb  of  the  inner  door.     After 
looking  at  the  photograph  he  said  he  was  not  sure  of  what  he  had  seen. 
Upon  further  reflection  he  admitted  that,   in  fact,   he  had  not  seen  the 
shooting  at  all. 

Of  those  who  claimed  to  have  seen  the  shooting,   some  acknowledged 
that  their  view  was  obstructed  by  the  truck  parked  in  front  of  No,   215, 
or  by  other  children;  some  heard    but  did  not  see  the  last  two  shots; 

-6- 


1012    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
others  admitted  running  for  cover  when  the  shooting  started.     All  agreed 

that  after  the  first  shot  there  was  a  pause,  then  two  shots  m  succession, 
and,   finally,   Powell  lay  flat  on  his  stomach,  body  parallel  with  the  curb, 
head  towards  Third  Avenue,   while  Gilligan  stood  over  hitn  holding  the  gun 
pointed  at  the  body.     Many  of  the  students  claimed  that  Gilligan  then  either 
nudged  or  pushed  or  kicked  Powell  over  onto  his  back.     But  when  Powell's 
two  friends,  who  had  been  holding  the  knives  for  him,   ran  over  from  the 
opposite  side  of  the  street,   after  having  heard  the  three  shots,   Powell  was 
still  face  down  and  Gilligan  stood  over  him  rubbing  his  fingers.     The  boy 
who  had  given  Powell  the  knife  asked  Gilligan  why  he  had  shot  him. 
Gilligan  replied,    "This  is  why,  "  taking  from  his  pocket  a  badge  which  he 
pinned  to  his  shirt.     Asked  why  he  didn't  call  an  ambulance,  Gilligan  said 
that  Powell  was  his  prisoner  and  directed  the  boy  to  call  the  ambulance. 
The  boy,   who  had  refused  to  give  Powell  the  red -handled  knife,  heard 
Gilligan  say  that  Powell  had  tried  to  kill  him  and  that  he  had  a  knife  under 
him. 

Adults 


Various  aspects  of  the  events,   prior  to,   during  and  subsequent  to  the 
shooting,   were  observed  by  eight  passersby,   two  store  owners,  two 
neighborhood  workmen,   five  teachers,   and  a  priest.     According  to  one  of 
the  owners  of  the  TV  store,  Gilligan  came  in  with  a  radio  to  be  fixed  and 
isked  what  was  going  on  in  the  street.     Told  that  the  young  people  were  just 
icting  up,  Gilligan  remarked  that  he  did  not  want  to  get  involved  in  anything, 
:hat  he  wanted  to  have  his  radio  fixed  and  leave.     The  shopkeeper  saw  the 
iTouths  start  throwing  garbage  can  covers  and  soda  bottles.     There  was  a 
;rash  and  he  saw  the  superintendent  run  into  the  building.     Gilligan  then  ran 
put  the  door. 

-7- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1013 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
Seven  other  people,  a  couple  walking  by  the  building,  a  practical 

nurse  standing  on  the  other  side  of  the  street,  a  truck  driver  walking  to 
work,  a  bus  driver  on  his  way  from  work,  the  cleaning  store  owner,  and 
a  teacher  looking  out  a  third  story  school  window,  stated  that  Powell 
had  run,  leaped  or  swaggered  onto  the  stoop,  heading  towards  the 
entrance  to  number  215,  Some  saw  Powell  enter  the  building.  Gilligan 
appeared  from  the  direction  of  the  TV  store  and,  according  to  most 
versions,  was  standing  on  the  sidewalk  somewhere  near  the  stoop  when 
Powell  started  back  down  the  stoop  towards  the  street.  Gilligan,  according 
to  the  man  in  the  television  store,  shouted,  "Stop".  Extending  his  left 
hand,  he  said,  "I'm  a  lieutenant,  drop  it";  in  his  right  hand  he  held  a 
gun.  Standing  in  the  entrance  way  of  the  store,  the  owner  looked  to  the 
doorway  of  the  building  and  saw  the  head  and  shoulders  of  someone  coming 
out  in  a  crouched  position,  clenced  hand  raised  to  shoulder  level.  A  bus 
driver  standing  near  No.  209  said  that  Powell  had  a  knife  in  his  right  hand 
and  was  moving  off  the  stoop  towards  the  officer,  who  was  on  the  sidewalk 
facing  the  building.  He  related  that  Gilligan,  holding  a  badge  in  his  open 
palm,  had  shouted,  "Stop,  "I'm  a  cop".  An  air  conditioning  mechanic, 
whose  truck  was  halted  by  traffic  about  three  buildings  west  of  No.  215, 
heard  someone  shout,  "Stop  and  drop  it".  From  his  elevated  cab,  he  then 
saw  Powell  standing  with  one  foot  on  the  sidewalk  and  one  foot  on  the  bottoiii 
step  of  the  stoop.  Facing  Powell,  about  two  or  three  feet  away  was  Gilliga;i. 
A  knife  in  his  right  hand,  the  boy  paused,  raised  it  to  about  head  level 
away  from  his  body,  and  started  to  come  down  with  it,  striking  at  Gilligan. 
There  was  a  shot.  Powell  started  to  slump  but  came  up  again.  He  raised 
the  knife  and  again  swung  at  Gilligan.  There  was  another  shot.  Traffic 
started  to  move,  and  the  witness  drove  away  towards  Second  Avenue. 
A  workman  on  a  scaffold  four  buildings  east  of  No,   215  looked  in  the  directibn 


1014    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
of  the  building  after  the  first  shot.     According  to  his  version,   Powell  was 

moving  rapidly  and  coming  dovra  from  the  stoop  but  still  on  the  landing 
while  Gilligan  was  on  the  sidewalk  in  front  of  the  TV  store.     In  his  right 
hand  Gilligan  held  some  object  and  his  left  hand  was  partially  outstretched 
Powell,   with  his  hands  raised  and  fists  clenched,   also  held  an  object 
in  his  hand.     As  he  then  climed  up  the  rope  of  the  scaffold  to  safety,  he 
heard  two  more  shots. 

Other  witnesses  differed  concerning  the  positions  of  Gilligan  and 
Powell.     A  truck  driver,  who  was  standing  in  front  of  the  cleaning  store 
insisted  that  Gilligan  had  followed  Powell  into  the  building  and  that  they 
were  both  still  in  the  hallway  when  the  three  shots  were  fired.     Two 
witnesses  maintained  that  one  or  all  three  shots  were  fired  from  the 
street  into  the  hallway,  while  one  passerby  said  Gilligan  was  in  front  of  the 
TV  store  window  when  he  fired  toward  the  door.      A  teacher  who  was  stand  ng 
by  a  fourth  story  window  when  the  first  shot  was  fired  thought  that  Gilligan 
was  facing  the  street  and  Powell  the  building  when  the  next  two  shots  were 
fired. 

All  the  witnesses  who  heard  three  shots,   except  one,  agreed  that 
the  first  shot  was  followed  by  a  pause  and  then  two  shots  in  succession. 
All,  who  had  seen  Powell  fall  to  the  sidewalk,   recalled  that  he  did  not 
reach  the  ground  until  all  three  shots  had  been  fired.     Powell  lay  on  the 
sidewalk  face  down,   while  Gilligan  stood  over  him,   pointing  his  gun  ai 
him.     The  TV  man  heard  the  officer  tell  Powell  not  to  move.     Two 
teachers,  looking  from  the  third  and  fourth  floor  windows,   respectively, 
claimed  that  Gilligan  then  pushed  Powell  over  onto  his  back.     A  man 
standing  by  the  cleaning  store  maintained,  however,   that  an  ambulance 
attendant  turned  over  the  body,   and  a  man  who  had  been  working  in  a 
nearby  building  said  that  a  clergyman  and  a  police  officer  turned  Powell 

-9- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1015 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
over  onto  his  back.     But  the  priest  who  arrived  on  the  scene  stated  that 

Powell  was  already  on  his  back  when  he  arrived.     Two  men  heard 
Gilligan  say  that  there  was  a  knife  under  the  boy.     They  also  noticed 
a  badge  hanging  from  Gilligan 's  pants  pocket. 

Two  other  witnesses  saw  a  knife  in  the  street  after  the  shooting. 
A  young  school  teacher  who  lives  in  the  neighborhood  noticed  a  knife 
blade  lying  next  to  Powell's  thigh,  between  his  body  and  the  stoop.     While 
standing  there  she  saw  someone  kick  the  knife  toward  the  curb.    A  teache  i 
who  ran  out  of  the  school  after  the  shooting  saw  a  knife  lying  in  the 
gutter  about  ten  feet  from  Powell.     The  blade  was  open.     He  picked  it 
up,   closed  it,   and  gave  it  to  a  police  officer.     Powell's  young  friend 
later  identified  this  knife  as  the  black-handled  knife  he  had  received  from 
Powell  and  returned  to  him  just  before  the  shooting. 
Police  officers 

Several  uniformed  police  officers  arrived  at  the  scene  approximately 
9:30.     Two  saw  Powell  lying  face  down  with  his  left  arm  partly  under  his 
head.     One  of  them  turned  Powell  over  in  an  attempt  to  administer  first 
aid.     The  other  officer  was  handed  the  black-handled  knife  by  a  teacher. 
Now  in  the  District  Attorney's  custody,  this  knife,   open,   measures  eight 
and  seven-eighths  inches.     Its  single  blade  is  three  and  one -half  inches 
long. 
Statement  of  Lieutenant  Gilligan 

Lieutenant  Gilligan  is  thirty-seven  years  old,  has  been  a  policeman 
for  seventeen  years.     He  is  six  feet,  two  inches  tall,   and  weighs  about  tw(^ 
hundred  pounds.     Questioned  extensively.   Lieutenant  Gilligan  gave  the 
following  version  of  the  events.     July  16th  was  his  day  off.     His  radio 
having  gone  dead  that  morning,   he  decided  to  take  it  to  the  Jadco  TV 
Service  Company,  located  at  215  East  76th  Street  in  the  precinct  where 


■10- 


88-083  O— 68— pt.  2- 


1016    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
he  formerly  worked.     Arriving  at  about  9:9^0  or  9:25  a.  m, ,   he  noticed 

two  groups  of  youngsters  standing  around  a  man  who  was  hosing  the 
sidewalk.  Upon  entering  the  store,  he  was  told  that  there  had  been 
some  trouble  earlier  and  that  the  police  had  been  called. 

Suddenly,   Gilligan  heard  the  sound  of  breaJcing  glass  and  saw 
people  running  in  the  street.     Dropping  the  hose,   the  superintendent  ran 
into  the  building.     A  boy,   following  behind,   threw  a  bottle  and  garbage 
can  cover  at  the  man  and  ran  away.     Gilligan  then  stepped  outside  and 
spotted  Powell  running  around  the  front  of  the  parked  service  truck 
tov/ards  the  building,  yelling,    "Hit  him,   hit  him,   hit  him.  "    In  his  right 
hand,   held  close  to  his  chest,   was  an  open  knife,   blade  pointed  down. 
Powell  ran  towards  the  hallway.     Gilligan,   removing  his  badge  from  his 
left  trouser  pocket  and  his  revolver  from  his  right  pocket,   moved  to  a 
point  in  front  of  the  stoop,   facing  the  building  entr-ance.     By  this  time 
Powell  was  just  inside  the  hallway  at  the  outer  door.     Holding  the 
shield  in  his  outstretched  hand  in  front  of  him,   Gilligan  said,    "I'm  a 
j  police  lieutenant.     Come  out  and  drop  it.  "    Looking  over  his  shoulder, 
Powell  glanced  from  the  badge  to  the  gun.     Gilligan  repeated  the  warning. 
Powell  turned,   raised  the  knife  in  front  of  his  chest  and  lunged  at  the 
officer.     Pointing  the  gun  to  his  left,   Gilligan  fired  a  warning  shot  into  the 
building  and  again  told  him  to  stop.     Powell,   now  close  to  the  edge  of 
the  stoop  landing,   struck  at  the  officer  with  the  knife.     Gilligan  flocked  it 
with  his  right  hand,   which  still  held  the  gun,   and  attempted  to  push  Powell 
back,   but  the  knife  scraped  along  his  arm  causing  it  to  bleed  and  later  to 
swell.     Powell  was  bent  back  but  again  struck  with  the  knife.     This  time 
Gilligan,   who  claims  to  be  an  expert  shot,   pointed  his  gun  slightly  upward^ 
and  fired  at  the  raised  hand,   seeking  to  dislodge  the  knife.     But  Powell, 
still  above  the  officer  on  the  stoop,  again  lunged  forward,   knife  hand 


■II- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1017 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
pumping.    Gilligan  stepped  back  and  fired  into  the  boy's  midsection. 

Powell  staggered  and  collapsed  onto  the  sidewalk,  face  down.    The 
knife  lay  nearby.    Gilligan  backed  around  onto  the  stoop,  holding  the 
gun  down  by  his  side. 

APPLICABLE  LAW 

1.  The  killing  of  one  human  being  by  another  is  a  criminal 
homicide,  unless  the  act  is  "justifiable"  or  otherwise  excused  by  law. 

2.  Deadly  force  is  justifiable  if  used  in  self-defense,  whether 
by  a  private  citizen  or  a  police  officer.     The  theory  of  self-defense 
may  be  termed,   "reasonably  apparent  necessity":    deadly  force  is 
justified  if  the  slayer  has  a  reasonable  basis,   in  all  the  circumstances, 
for  believing  at  the  moment  of  the  slaying  that  such  force  is  necessary 
to  prevent  imminent,  grave  personal  injury  to  himself. 

If  James  Powell  did  not  attack  Lt.  Gilligan,  or  attacked  him  but 
without  a  dangerous  weapon,  and  Gilligan  had  no  reason  for  believing 
that  he  was  in  imminent  danger,  the  shooting  was  not  justified  as  self- 
defense.    If  Powell  attacked  Gilligan  with  a  knife,  but  there  was  a 
reasonable  alternative  to  shooting,  Gilligan  was  obliged  to  make  every 
effort,  consistent  with  his  own  safety,  to  avoid  the  danger  before  using 
fatal  force.     He  could  shoot  without  retreating,   however,   if  it  was 
reasonable  to  believe  at  the  moment  of  the  attack  that  retreat  was 
impossible  or  would  have  increased  the  danger.    This  is  so  even  if,  upon 
subsequent  reflection,  it  appears  that  such  belief  was  mistaken,  and 
there  was  an  opportunity  to  retreat  without  increasing  the  danger. 

3.  Deadly  force  is  justifiable  not  only  under  the  law  of  self-defense 
but  also  under  certain  principles  governing  the  use  of  force  by  a  police 
officer  in  the  performance  of  his  duties. 

-12- 


1018     SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 
ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  3 — Continued 
At  all  times,   a  New  York  City  policeman  is  required  to  carry  his 

service  revolver,  and  bound  to  protect  life  and  property,   prevent  crime, 

and  arrest  offenders.     If,   while  "off  duty",   Gilligan  observed  a  public 

disturbance,   he  was  obliged  to  intercede,   and  could  arrest  any  person 

on  reasonable  grounds  for  believing  that  he  was  committing  a  crime  or 

offense  in  the  officer's  presence.     Homicide  is  justifiable  when  committed 

by  a  police  officer  in  attempting  lawfully  to  apprehend  a  person  for  a 

crime  a-^tuaily  committed,   when  the  circumstances  are  such  that  one 

would  have  reasonable  cause  for  believing  that  the  crime  was  a  felony, 
and  that  deadly  force  is  necessary  to  apprehend  the  suspect.     Assault 

with  a  knife,   and  assaulting  a  police  officer  with  intent  to  resist  lawful 

IJ 

ii    arrest,   are  felonies. 

|i 

Therefore,   if  Gilligan  was  acting  as  a  police  officer,   and  lawfully 
attempting  to  apprehend  Powell  for  some  crime  or  offense  committed  in 
his  presence,   such  as  possession  of  a  knife  with  intent  to  use  it  unlawfully 
upon  another,   or  disorderly  conduct,  and  Powell  resisted  arrest  by 
assaulting  Gilligan  in  any  manner,   this  assault  was  a  felony;   if  Powell 
assaulted  Gilligan  with  a  dangerous  weapon,   a  separate  felony  was 
committed.     The  officer  was  then  entitled  to  use  deadly  force  to  apprehend 
Powell,   but  only  if  he  had  a  reasonable  basis  for  believing  that  such  force 
was  necessary. 

4.     The  presumption  of  innocence  applies  in  the  grand  jury  room. 
The  grand  jury  ought  to  find  an  indictment  only  when  all  the  evidence 
before  them,   taken  together,   is  such  as  in  their  judgment  would,   if 
unexplained  or  uncontradicted,   warrant  a  conviction  by  a  trial  jury  by  a 
verdict  of  guilty  beyond  a  reasonable  doubt.     The  grand  jury  should  consider 
all  the  evidence,   and  where  there  appear  irreconcilable  discrepancies, 
j   the  grand  jury  should  resolve  issues  of  credibility. 


-13- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1019 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  3— Continued 
Thus,  no  indictment  could  be  found  against  Lt.  Gilligan  unless 
at  least  twelve  of  the  grand  jurors  concluded  that  a  petit  jury  would  be 
persuaded  by  the  evidence  that,  beyond  a  reasonable  doubt,  the  killing 
was  unjustified. 


-14- 


1 020    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

ROMERSTEIN    EXHIBIT   NO.    14— A 

CRIMINAL  COURT  OF  THE  CITY  OF  NEW  YORK 
COUNTY  OF  NEW  YORK 

The  People  of  the  State  of  New  York 

against 

WiixiAM  MoAdoo,  defendant 

BE  IT  REMEMBERED  that  I,  Frank  S.  Hogan,  the  District  Attorney  of 
the  County  of  New  York,  by  this  information  accuse  the  above-named  defendant 
of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  committed  as  follows: 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964 
Term  continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting 
an  investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating 
to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter 
the  defendant,  William  McAdoo,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  19M  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30, 
1964,  in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under 
oath  after  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer 
immunity  upon  htm  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony 
and  that  said  immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interrogatory 
of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q.  Mr.  McAdoo,  when  did  you  become  a  member  of  the  Labor  Movement, 
if  you  did  become  a  member  of  the  Labor  Movement? 

A.  I  am  going  to  refuse  to  answer  that  question,  under  the  Fifth  Amend- 
ment. 

Q.  Mr.  McAdoo.  I  think  the  last  time  you  were  here  I  advised  you  that 
the  grand  jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  you  for  any  crimes 
which   your   testimony   disclosed.    Do  you   recall   that? 

A.  I  recall  the  conferral  of  immxmity. 

Q.  And  I  advised  you  at  that  time  that  when  the  foreman  directs  you 
to  answer  a  question  that  immunity  is  conferred  upon  you  for  crimes 
that  your  testimony  discloses,  but  does  not  give  you  immunity  for  any 
I)erjury  or  contempt  which  your  testimony  might  disclose. 

A.  I  understand  that. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  You  understand.  And  I  ask  the  Foreman  to  direct  you  to 
answer  that  question. 

The  Foreman:  I  so  direct  you. 

The  Witness  :  And  again  I  refuse  on  the  same  grounds. 

SECOND  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT, 
committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964 
Term  continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting 
an  investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to 
conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter  the 
defendant,  William  McAdoo,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  fonn  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 021 

violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath 
after  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that  said 
immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interrogatory 
of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates: 

Q.  Mr.  McAdoo,  during  the  July  riots  in  New  York  County,  were  you 
present  at  the  oflBces  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  on  Lenox  Avenue, 
and  did  you  at  that  time  demonstrate  how  a  Molotov  cocktail  is  made? 

A.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  under  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  respectfully  request  that  the  Foreman  direct  you  to 
answer. 

The  FoBEMAN  :  I  so  direct. 

The  Witness  :  And  again  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question. 

THIRD  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT, 
committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter 
the  defendant,  William  McAdoo,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relatinij  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath 
after  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  im- 
munity upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and 
that  said  immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interroga- 
tory of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates: 

Q.  Mr.  McAdoo,  I  show  you  Grand  Jury  Exhibit  No.  15,  which  is  a  leaflet 
which  says :  Harlem  Freedom  Fighters.  How  to  make  a  Molotov  cocktail. 
I  ask  you  whether  you  have  ever  seen  that  document  before? 

A,  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  on  the  same  grounds. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  this  witness  be 
directed  to  answer  that  question. 

The  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer  that  question. 

The  Witness  :  And  again  I  refuse  to  answer  on  the  same  ground. 

FOURTH  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT, 
committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter 
the  defendant,  William  McAdoo,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 


1  022    SUBVERSIVE  INELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath  after 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon 
him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that  said  im- 
munity was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964.  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interrogatory 
of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q.  During  the  July  riots  in  New  York  County  did  you  and  William  Epton 
agree  to  incite  further  riot? 

A.  I  refuse  to  answer  that  question  under  the  Fifth  Amendment. 
Mr.   Phillips  :   I   respectfully  request  that  this  witness  be  directed  to 
answer  that  question. 
The  Foreman  :  I  so  direct  you. 

The  Witness  :  I  continue  to  refuse  to  answer  under  the  same  grounds. 

Frank  S.  Hogan, 

District  Attorney. 

ROMERSTEIN    EXHIBIT   NO.    14-B 

CRIMINAL  COURT  OF  THE  CITY  OF  NEW  YORK 

COUNTY  OF  NEW  YORK 

The  People  of  the  State  of  New  York 

against 

David  Douglas,  defendant 

BE  IT  REMEMBERED  that  I,  FRANK  S.  HOGAN,  the  District  Attorney 
of  the  County  of  New  York,  by  this  information  accuse  the  above-named  defendant 
of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to 
conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  August  31,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness  before 
said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  term  continued  and  was  duly 
sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon 
him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter  the 
defendant,  David  Douglas,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  con- 
tinued, in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether  vio- 
lations of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath,  after 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that  said 
immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interrogatory 
of  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates. 

Mr.  Phillips:  Will  you  read  back  the  previous  question.  (Question  read: 
Mr.  Douglas,  did  you  agree  and  conspire  with  William  Epton  to  incite 
further  rioting  in  New  York  County  during  July  of  this  year?) 

Q.  Yes  or  no,  Mr.  Douglas? 

A.  As  I  said  before,  Mr,  Phillips,  I  think  this  hearing  is  illegal  and  uncon- 
stitutional. I  have  seen  what  reports  have  been  handed  down  by  the  F.B.I. , 
by  Commissioner  Murphy,  and  I  refuse  to  answer  any  questions  before  this 
hearing  in  the  future  and  now. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  this  witness  be 
directed  to  answer  that  question. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1  023 

The  FoBEMAN  :  I  so  direct. 

The  Witness  :  I  refuse  to  answer. 

SECOND  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEiY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information,  fur- 
ther accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  com- 
mitted as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  Coimty  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  August  31,  1964,  the  above  named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness  before 
said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was  duly 
sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon 
him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter  the 
defendant,  David  Douglas,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  con- 
tinued, in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether  vio- 
lations of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
after  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  im- 
munity upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that 
said  immunity  was  still  in  effect 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interrogatory 
of  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q.  During  the  July  riots  in  New  York  County  did  you  discuss  the  manu- 
facture of  Molotov  cocktails  with  other  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Movement? 

A.  As  I  said  before,  Mr.  Phillii>s  and  this  grand  jury,  after  hearing  the 
reports — 

Q.  There  is  a  question  before  you,  Mr.  Douglas. 

A.  I  am  answering  the  question  the  way  I  know  now,  and  if  you  would 
allow  me  to  answer,  and  quit  interrupting,  I  will  continue  to  answer.  As 
I  said  before,  these  questions  you  are  asking  in  the  past,  and  these  you  are 
asking  now,  it  seems  to  me  that  you  have  no  case.  You  are  completely 
harassing  these  witnesses,  myself  and  others.  This  is  like  an  inquisition, 
and  I  say  you  have  no  grounds  to  continue  this  hearing.  I  refuse  to  answer 
any  further  questions. 

Q.  Mr.  Witness,  it  is  not  your  determination  whether  this  grand  jury  has 
evidence  before  it,  to  ask  these  questions.  *  *  ♦ 

A.  You  cannot  tell  me  what  I  have  the  right  to  do,  Mr.  Phillips.  I  know 
my  rights,  and  I  make  use  of  them. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mrs.  Stenographer,  would  you  read  the  last  question. 
(Question  read  :  *  *  *) 

The  Witness  :  I  answered  the  question.  I  did  before. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  respectfully  request  that  he  be  directed  to  answer  that 
question. 

The  Foreman  :  I  so  direct  you. 

The  Witness  :  I  have  answered  the  question  and  I  ask  the  reporter  to  read 
it. 

THIRD  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information,  fur- 
ther accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  com- 
mitted as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964 
Term  continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting 
an  investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to 
conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  August  31,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness  before 
said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August  1964  Term  continued  and  was  duly  sworn 
and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  him 
for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter  the  defendant, 
David  Douglas,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 


1  024    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  Avigust,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  i-elating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
after  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that  said 
immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interroga- 
tory of  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q.  Subsequent  to  your  appearance  here,  have  you  discussed  your  testi- 
mony with  other  members  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  namely, 
William  Epton,  William  Anderson,  Abraham  Hart,  Harold  Young? 

A.  As  I  said  before,  Mr.  Phillips,  you  have  no  grounds  to  continue  this 
hearing. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  respectfully  request  the  foreman  to  direct  you  to  answer 
that  question. 

The  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer. 

The  Witness  :  I  have  answered.  You  have  no  grounds  to  continue  this 
hearing.  You  are  harassing  the  witnesses.  *  *  * 

FOURTH  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information,  fur- 
ther accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  com- 
mitted as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to 
conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  August  31,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness  before 
said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was  duly 
sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon 
him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony.  Thereafter  the 
defendant,  David  Douglas,  testified  on  a  number  of  occasions. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  con- 
tinued, in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
after  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  im- 
munity upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and 
that  said  immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and  unlaw- 
fully refused,  before  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  interroga- 
tory of  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates  : 

Q.  Mr.  Douglas,  I  show  you  Grand  Jury  Exhibit  No.  8.  It  is  a  leaflet 
which  says  "Stop  the  Cops"  on  it.  Did  you  prepare  that  document? 

A.  As  I  said  before,  Mr.  Phillips,  all  the  information  which  I  have  given 
in  the  past,  if  it  isn't  enough  for  you  to  prosecute  the  witnesses,  it  is  no 
point  in  continuing,  and  I  consider  these  hearings  pure  harassment. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  respectfully  request  the  witness  be  directed  to  answer 
that  question. 

The  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer  the  question. 

The  Witness  :  I  have  answered  the  question. 

Frank  S.  Hogan, 
District  Attorney. 


SUBVERSIVE  INTLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 025 
RoMEaiSTEiN  Exhibit  No.  14— C 

CRIMINAL  COURT  OF  THE  CITY  OF  NEW  YORK 
COUNTY  OF  NEW  YORK 

The  People  of  the  State  of  New  Yokk 

against 

Vivian  Anderson,  defendant 

BE  IT  REMEMBERED  that  I,  FRANK  S.  HOGAN,  the  District  Attorney  of 
the  County  of  New  York,  by  this  information  accuse  the  above-mentioned  de- 
fendant of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  sua 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to 
conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
sworn,  and  testified  under  a  general  waiver  of  unmunity. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  \mder  oath, 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  her  for 
any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  her  testimony. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and  un- 
lawfully refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  in- 
terrogatory of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q  You  don't  recall,  was  it  around  that  time? 

A  I  don't  remember.  There  was  a  lot  of  leaflets. 

Q  How  many  have  you  participated  in  ? 

A  Mr.  Phillips  you  asked  me  the  same  questions  before. 

Q  I  don't  recall  your  answer. 

A  I  am  not  going  to  answer  any  more  questions  except  as  they  pertain  to 
my  position  and  conduct  in  office  *  *  *. 
******* 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  would  like  to  ask  the  Foreman  to  direct  you  to  answer  the 
question.  Will  the  stenographer  read  the  question. 

(The  question  was  read) . 

The  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer  the  question. 

The  Witness  :  I  refuse  to  answer. 

SECOND  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  com- 
mitted as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness  be- 
fore said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
sworn,  and  testified  imder  a  general  waiver  of  immunity. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  con- 
tinued, in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  her  for  any 
crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  her  testimony. 


1 026    SUBVERSIVE  mPLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and  un- 
lawfully refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  inter- 
rogatory of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates  : 

Q  Did  you  and  William  Epton  agree  to  incite  further  riots  in  New  York 
County  in  January  of  this  year? 

A  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  the  witness  be 
directed  to  answer  the  question. 

The  Foreman  :  You  are  so  directed. 

The  Witness  :  I  refuse  to  answer. 

THIRD  COUNT : 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information,  fur- 
ther accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  com- 
mitted as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
sworn,  and  testified  under  a  general  waiver  of  immunity. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  her  for 
any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  her  testimony. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and 
unlawfully  refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper 
interrogatory  of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q  Were  you  present  in  the  oflBce  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  in 
July  of  this  year  with  William  Epton  and  discussed  with  him  and  another 
individual  the  possession  of  forty  Molotov  cocktails? 

A  Is  that  the  question  ? 

Q  Yes. 

A  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  respectfully  request  that  the  witness  be  directed  to 
answer. 

The  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer. 

The  Witness  :  I  refuse  to  answer. 

FOURTH  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT, 
committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness  be- 
fore said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
sworn,  and  testified  under  a  general  waiver  of  immunity. 

On  September  30,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  con- 
tinued, in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether  vio- 
lations of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  30,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon  her  for 
any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  her  testimony. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  30,  1964,  contumaciously  and 
unlawfully  refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper 
interrogatory  of  the  said  Grand  Jury  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 


SUBVERSIVE  ZNTLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 027 

Q.  Did  you  hear  William  Epton  discuss  the  purchase  of  firearms  for  use 
at  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement? 
A.  I  refuse  to  answer. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  I  request  that  the  witness  be  directed  to  answer. 
The  Foreman  :  You  are  so  directed. 
The  Witness  :  I  refuse. 

Fbank  S.  Hoqan, 

District  Attorney. 

ROMEBSTEIN    EXHIBIT  NO.   14-D 

CRIMINAL  COURT  OF  THE  CITY  OF  NEW  YORK 
COUNTY  OF  NEW  YORK 

The  People  of  the  State  of  New  Yoek 

against 

Michael  Crenovich,  defendant 

BE  IT  REMEMBERED  that  I,  FRANK  S.  HOGAN,  the  District  Attorney 
of  the  County  of  New  York,  by  this  information  accuse  the  above-mentioned 
defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAXi  CONTEMPT,  committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964 
Term  continued  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conduct- 
ing an  investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating 
to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  has  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Granu  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  23, 
1964,  in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under 
oath,  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity 
uix)n  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that 
said  immunity  was  still  In  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  23,  1964,  contumaciously  and 
unlawfully  refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper 
interrogatory  of  the  said  Grand  Jury,  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q.  Are  you  a  member  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement? 

A.  Well the 

Q.  Yes  or  no,  Mr.  Crenovich?  What  is  the  problem? 

A.  There  is  a  problem,  the  problem  is  when  you  served  with — me  with 
the  subpoena  to — for  the  records  of  the  corporation,  you  refused  to  say 
what  was  being  investigated,  what  was  the — what  you  were  trying  to 
investigate,  and  to  this  date  I  am — I  am  in  a  the  dark  in  that  respect  There- 
fore, it — even  when  discussing  or  trying  to  get  advice  from  counsel,  it 
is  diflBcult  to  determine  what 

Q.  It  is  not  difficult  at  all,  Mr.  Crenovich,  you  are  here  as  a  witness,  and 
not  as  a  defendant.  You  serve  no  criminal  probability  with  what  you  say 
here  providing  it  is  the  truth  and  your  answers  are  not  contemptuous. 
Therefore  there  is  no  problem  you  are — your  only  duty  here  is  to  tell  the 
truth,  it  doesn't  make  any  difference  to  you  what  this  grand  jury  is 
investigating,  you  are  required  here  to  ask — answer  all  proper  and  legal 
questions. 

A.  I'll  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  the  foreman, 
that  the  witness  be  directed  to  answer  that  question. 

The  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer  the  question. 

The  Witness  :  The  answer  is  the  same,  I  decline  to  answer  that  question. 

By  Mr.  Phillips  : 

Q.  On  what  grounds? 


1 028    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

A.  On  the  grounds  of  possible  self-incrimination,  and  possible — not  know- 
ing what  the  investigation  is  about,  and — ^basically  on  those  grounds. 

SECOND  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT, 
committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  Augusit,  1964 
Term  continued  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting 
an  investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to 
conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  has  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immun- 
ity upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  23, 
1964,  in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under 
oath,  being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  im- 
munity upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and 
that  said  immunity  was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  23,  1964,  contumaciously  and 
unlawfully  refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper 
interrogatory  of  the  said  Grand  Jury,  as  the  folowing  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q  Mr.  Crenovich,  you  just  told  us  that  there  were  four  people  who  were 
employees  of  your  corporation  when  this  was  produced,  what  four  people 
did  you  have  in  mind  when  you  said  that  there  were  four  people  employed? 

A  I  am  going  to  decline  to  answer  again. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Foreman,  I  request — respectfully  request  the  wit- 
ness be  directed  to  answer. 

The  Foreman  :  I  so  direct  you. 

The  Witness  :  I —  my  answer  is  the  same. 

THIRD  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT, 
committed  as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
STpiracy  to  incite  a  riot  has  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  con- 
tinued, in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  ^whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  23,  1964, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon 
him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that  said  im- 
munity was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  23,  1964,  contumaciously  and  un- 
lawfully refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper  in- 
terrogatory of  the  said  Grand  Jury,  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q  Who  else  do  you  know  at  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  V 
A  I  have  to  decline  to  answer  that  questioii  also. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Assistant  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  this  wit- 
ness be  directed  to  answer  that  question. 
Assistant  Foreman  :  I  hereby  request  you  to  answer  that  question. 
Mr.  Phillips:  Would  you  direct  him,  Mr.  Assistant  Foreman? 

Assistant  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to 

The  WITNESS  :  I  decline  to  answer  that  question. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 029 

FOURTH  COUNT: 

AND,  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information,  fur- 
ther accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  com- 
mitted as  follows : 

The  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued  having  beeen  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  has  been  conducting  an 
investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  con- 
spiracy to  incite  a  riot  has  occurred. 

On  September  14,  1964,  the  above-named  defendant  appeared  as  a  witness 
before  said  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term  continued  and  was 
duly  sworn  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony. 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  for  the  August,  1964  Term 
continued,  in  due  form  of  law,  its  aforesaid  investigation  to  determine  whether 
violations  of  the  Penal  Law  relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  had  occurred. 

The  above-named  defendant  was  recalled  as  a  witness,  on  September  23,  19^, 
in  the  County  of  New  York,  and  testified  before  said  Grand  Jury  under  oath, 
being  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  previously  voted  to  confer  immunity  upon 
him  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his  testimony  and  that  said  im- 
munity was  still  in  effect. 

Thereupon  the  defendant,  on  said  September  23,  1964,  contumaciously  and 
unlawfully  refused,  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  to  answer  a  legal  and  proper 
interrogatory  of  the  said  Grand  Jury,  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q  How  much  money  do  you  carry  as  a  usual  course? 

A  Maybe  $50. 

Q  Now,  I  ask  you,  is  there  anytime  since  January  1,  1964  that  you  had  on 
your  person  more  than  $5,000  in  cash? 

A  I  don't  remember. 

Q  Yes  or  no? 

A  I  don't  remember. 

Mr.  Phillips  :  Mr.  Assistant  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  the 
witness  be  directed  to  answer  that  question. 

Assistant  Foreman  :  I  direct  you  to  answer  that  question. 

The  Witness  :  I  cannot  remember.  Respectf viUy,  my  answer  is,  I  cannot 
remember. 

FIFTH  COUNT: 

AND  I,  THE  DISTRICT  ATTORNEY  AFORESAID,  by  this  information, 
further  accuse  the  said  defendant  of  the  crime  of  PERJURY  IN  THE  SECOND 
DEGREE,  committed  as  follows: 

The  above-named  defendant,  in  the  County  of  New  York,  September  23,  1964, 
on  an  occasion  upon  which  an  oath  was  required  by  law  and  was  necessary  for 
the  ends  of  public  justice  and  might  lawfully  be  administered,  appeared  as  a 
witness,  before  the  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for  the 
August,  1964  Term  continued,  in  a  proceeding  entitled  The  People  of  the  State 
of  New  York  against  John  Doe,  which  proceeding  was  then  and  there  actually 
pending  before  the  said  Grand  Jury,  and,  after  being  sworn  by  the  foreman  of 
the  said  Grand  Jury,  who  had  authority  to  administer  the  oath,  testified  as 
follows : 

That  he.  Michael  Crenovich.  did  not  recall  whom  he  spoke  to  at  the  Harlem 
Defense  Counsel  [sic]  about  ordering  the  printing  of  the  poster,  "Wanted  for 
Murder,  Gilligan  the  cop." 

The  aforesaid  testimony  and  statements  made  by  the  defendant  upon  said 
proceeding  were  false  and  were  so  made  and  sworn  to  by  the  defendant  wilfully 
and  with  the  knowledge  at  the  time  they  were  false. 

In  fact : 

The  defendant  knew  that  William  Epton  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Counsel  [sic] 
had  ordered  the  printing  of  the  poster,  "Wanted  for  Murder,  Gilligan  the  cop." 

Feank  S.  Hogan, 
District  Attorney. 


1  030    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

RoMEaiSTEiN  Exhibit  No.  14-E 

CRIMINAL  COURT  OF  THE  CITY  OF  NEW  YORK 
COUNTY  OF  NEW  YORK 

The  People  of  the  State  of  New  Yoek 

agamst 

Nathaniel  Baknett,  defendant 

BE  IT  REMEMBERED  that  I,  FRANK  S.  HOGAN,  the  District  Attorney  of 
the  County  of  New  York,  by  this  information  accuse  the  above-mentioned  de- 
fendant of  the  crime  of  CRIMINAL  CONTEMPT,  committed  as  follows : 

On  September  23,  1964,  the  Second  Grand  Jury  of  the  County  of  New  York  for 
the  August,  1964  Term,  having  been  duly  and  properly  impanelled,  was  con- 
ducting an  investigation  to  determine  whether  violations  of  the  Penal  Law 
relating  to  conspiracy  to  incite  a  riot  bad  occurred. 

On  that  date  and  pursuant  to  that  investigation,  the  above-named  defendant 
was  called  as  a  witness  before  that  Grand  Jury,  in  the  County  of  New  York,  was 
duly  sworn,  and  was  advised  that  the  Grand  Jury  had  voted  to  confer  immunity 
upon  Mm  from  prosecution  for  any  crimes  that  might  be  revealed  by  his 
testimony. 

Whereupon,  the  defendant  contumaciously  and  vmlawf ully  refused  to  answer  a 
legal  and  proper  interrogatory  as  the  following  testimony  demonstrates : 

Q.  "Mr.  Barnett,  where  were  you  during  the  riots  here  in  New  York  City 
in  July  of  this  year?" 

A.  "Upon  advice  of  Counsel  I'd  like  to  take  the  fifth  amendment  and — on 
the  grounds  it  may  tend  to  incriminate  me,  *  *  *" 

Q.  "Mr.  Foreman,  I  respectfully  request  that  you  direct  the  witness  to 
answer  that  question." 

The  Foreman  :  "I  so  direct  you." 

A.  "Again,  I  would  like,  upon  advice  of  counsel,  take  the  fifth  ammend- 
ment."  [sic] 

Q.  "Mr.  Barnett,  do  you  realize  that  when  you  refuse  to  answer  the  ques- 
tion after  the  foreman  has  directed  you  to  answer  that  question  that  you 
commit  a  contempt  of  Court,  which  is  a  misdemeanor  puuishable  by  one 
year  imprisonment  and  a  $500  fine?" 

A.  "I  do  understand  that." 

Q.  "You  realize  that?" 

A.  "I  do." 

Q.  "Your  counsel  has  told  you — " 

A.  "That's  right." 

Q.  "And  you  stiU  persist?" 

A.  "That's  right." 

Frank  S.  Hogan, 
District  Attorney. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND 

BURNING 

Part  2 


WEDNESDAY,  NOVEMBER  1,  1967 

United  States  House  of  Representatives, 

Subcommittee  of  the 
Committee  on  Un-American  Activities, 

Washington^  D.C. 

PUBLIC   HEARINGS 

The  suboommittee  of  the  Committee  on  Un-American  Activities  met, 
pursuant  to  recess,  at  10  a.m.,  in  Eoom  311,  Cannon  House  Office  Build- 
mg,  Washing^ton,  D.C,  Hon.  Edwin  E.  Willis  (chairman)  presiding. 

(Subcommittee  members :  Representatives  Edwin  E.  Willis,  of  Lou- 
isiana, chairman ;  William  M.  Tuck,  of  Virginia ;  Richard  H.  Ichord, 
of  Missouri ;  John  M.  Ashbrook,  of  Ohio ;  and  Albert  W.  Watson,  of 
South  Carolina;  also  John  C.  Culver,  of  Iowa,  in  absence  of  Mr. 
Willis.) 

(Subcommittee  members  present :  Representatives  Willis,  Tuck,  and 
Ashbrook.) 

Staff  members  present:  Francis  J.  MdNTamara,  director;  Chester 
D.  Smith,  general  counsel;  Alfred  M.  Nittle,  counsel;  and  Donald 
T.  Appell,  chief  investigator. 

The  Chairman.  The  subcommittee  will  come  to  order. 

Mr.  Wood,  will  you  please  raise  your  right  hand  ? 

Do  you  solemnly  swear,  sir,  that  the  testimony  you  are  about  to  give 
will  be  the  truth,  the  whole  truth,  and  nothing  but  the  truth,  so  help 
you  God  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  do. 

The  Chairman.  Again  I  ask  the  press,  please  refrain  from  taking 
photographs.  I  would  like  their  cooperation.  I  know  that  I  will  receive 
it.  Proceed. 

TESTIMONY  OF  RAYMOND  WOOD 

Mr.  Smith.  Please  state  your  name  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  My  name  is  Raymond  Wood. 

Mr.  Smith.  Where  are  you  employed,  Mr.  Wood  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  am  a  member  of  the  New  York  City  Police  Department. 

Mr.  Smith.  Wliat  is  your  rank  in  the  police  department  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  am  a  detective. 

Mr,  Smith,  To  what  part  of  the  city  were  you  assigned  ? 

Mr,  Wood.  I  was  assigned  to  the  Bronx. 

1031 

88-083  O — 68 — pt.  2 8 


1032    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  you  invited  to  join  the  Congress  of  Racial 
Equality  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir ;  in  April  of  1964, 1  was  invited  to  join  the  Bronx 
chapter  of  the  Congress  of  Racial  Equality. 

Mr.  SMrrH.  Did  you  attend  a  citywide  Congress  of  Racial  Equal- 
ity sit-in  demonstration  on  May  11, 1964? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did.  I  was  assigned  as  one  of  the  members  of 
the  Bronx  chapter  to  sit  in  on  this  particular  demonstration. 

The  Chairman.  And  I  suppose  you  joined  with  the  knowledge  of 
your  superiors  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

The  Chairman.  Probably  at  their  suggestion  ? 

Mr. Wood.  Pardon,  sir? 

The  Chairman.  Probably  at  their  suggestion  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir ;  that  is  correct. 

The  Chairman.  Thank  you  very  much.  Go  on. 

Mr.  Smith.  Where  was  the  sit-in  demonstration  held  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  The  sit-in  demonstration  was  held  at  the  Plumbers  Local 
Union  Number  2.  It  was  on  14th  Street  and  Union  Square,  New 
York  City. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  was  the  purpose  of  the  sit-in  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  The  purpose  of  the  sit-in  was  to  insure  the  hiring  of 
minority  group  apprentices  so  that  they  may  be  employed  as  mem- 
bers of  this  particular  local. 

Mr.  Smith.  Was  one  of  the  organizers  of  this  demonstration 
Blyden  Jackson  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  Blyden  Jackson  was  one  of  the  organizers,  along 
with  Herbert  Callender  from  the  Bronx  chapter  of  the  Congress  of 
Racial  Equality. 

Mr.  Smith.  Was  he  a  member  of  CORE  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir:  he  was  the  chairman  of  the  East  River  chapter 
of  CORE. 

Mr.  Smith.  Detective  Wood,  I  show  you  the  Spring- Summer  1967 
issue  of  a  publication  entitled  Party  Ajfairs^  a  publication  of  the 
Communist  Party  of  the  United  States  of  America,  which  on  page 
9  thereof  contains  a  picture  of  the  Communist  Party  contingent  at 
the  Spring  Peace  Mobilization  march  in  New  York  in  1967. 

Can  you  identify  anyone  in  this  picture  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir ;  I  recognize  Blyden  Jackson. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  permission  is  requested  to  enter  into 
the  record  as  Exhibit  1  the  face  page  and  page  9  of  the  stated  publi- 
cation. 

The  Chairman.  Permission  is  granted. 

(Document  marked  "Wood  Exhibit  No.  1."  The  photograph  men- 
tioned appears  on  p.  1033.) 

Mr.  Smith.  In  July  1964  did  you  participate  with  other  members 
of  the  Bronx  chapter  CORE  in  an  attempt  to  make  a  "citizen's" 
arrest  of  Mayor  Robert  Wagner  of  New  York? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did.  Actually  there  were  three  of  us  who 
participated  in  this  particular  venture.  One  was  Herb  Callender, 
chairman  of  the  Bronx  CORE,  and  John  Valentine  was  housing 
chairman  of  the  Bronx  chapter  of  CORE,  and  myself. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1033 


Oi 


a 


C/2 


a. 


1  034    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Upon  legal  counsel  received  by  Mr.  Callender,  we  were  informed 
that  the  best  way  that  the  Bronx  chapter  could  redress  its  grievances 
would  be  to  make  a  civilian  arrest  upon  the  mayor.  We  went  down 
to  the  mayor's  office  and  attempted  a  "citizen's"  arrest,  and  at  that 
time  Mr.  Callender  was  arrested  by  the  New  York  City  Police 
Department. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  you  arrested  as  a  result  of  this  attempt  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  was. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  activities  were  you  engaged  in  during  the  Harlem 
riot  of  1964? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  sir,  actually  I  was  told  by  CORE  to  act  as  a  liai- 
son between  the  various  CORE  chapters.  Our  particular  purpose  was 
to  coordinate  demonstrations  carried  on  throughout  the  city  of  New 
York  during  these  particular  riots.  The  purpose  of  this  committee 
was  twofold.  Number  one,  it  was  to  draw  the  New  York  City  police- 
men out  of  the  Harlem  riot  area  and,  secondly,  it  was  to,  an  attempt 
to  weaken  the  powers  of  the  New  York  City  Police  Department  by 
dispersing  its  forces. 

Mr.  Smith.  In  addition  to  CORE,  were  you  affiliated  with  the 
Freedom  Now  Party  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  was. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  subsequently  meet  a  man  named  Robert 
Collier? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  How  did  you  make  contact  with  him  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  On  December  14,  1964, 1  attended  a  rally  upon  the  sug- 
gestion of  my  superiors  at  the  Manhattan  Center,  which  is  located 
on  34th  Street  in  New  York  City.  While  I  was  there  I  met  Mr.  Paul 
Boutelle,  who  invited  me  to  take  a  seat  with  him  during  this  particu- 
lar rally.  At  the  conclusion  of  the  rally  I  was  invited  by  Mr.  Boutelle 
to  meet  one  Robert  Collier. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  for  the  record,  Paul  Boutelle  is  a  mem- 
ber of  the  Socialist  Workers  Party  and  has  been  designated  as  their 
candidate  for  Vice  President  of  the  United  States  in  1968. 

Permission  is  requested  to  introduce  into  the  record  as  Exhibit  2 
an  article  by  Mr.  Paul  Boutelle  in  the  Socialist  Workers  Party  official 
publication.  The  Militant^  for  Monday,  May  24,  1965,  titled,  'Why  I 
Joined  the  Socialist  Workers  Party.' 

The  Chairman.  Permission  is  so  granted. 

(Document  marked  "Wood  Exhibit  No.  2,"  appears  on  pp.  1035  and 
1036.) 

Mr.  Smith.  Could  you  describe  Freedom  Now  Party  for  us? 

Mr.  Wood.  According  t<)  Mr.  BoutellCj  the  Freedom  Now  Party's 
central  headquarters  was  located  in  Detroit,  Michigan.  The  purpose  of 
this  particular  organization,  it  was  to  serve  as  a  political  organiza- 
tion whereby  so-called  members  who  felt  that  they  had  no  means  of 
getting  into  the  regular  course  or  the  regular  stream  of  political  life 
in  America,  this  would  be  their  means  of  getting  into  the  stream. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  have  any  further  contact  with  Collier? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did.  I  met  Mr.  Collier  again  on  December  15, 
1964,  at  a  local  rallying  point  or  ballroom  up  in  Harlem.  The  name 
of  it  is  the  Renaissance  Ballroom.  While  I  was  there,  Mr.  Collier 
spotted  me  as  I  was  coming  in  the  door,  and  we  had  a  brief  conversa- 
tion. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  ANP  BURNING    1035 


Wood  Exhibit  No.  2 


THE  MILITANT 


A   iiarlcm  Rights   Fighter's  Dochion 


^e: 


—  r-at*% 


at^^^  « 


By    Paul    Boutcllc 

Since  I  havo  now  decided  to 
bcromo  part  of  the  inU?malionnI 
c^icialist  movement,  T  feel  that 
briefly  oiiUlninR  my  polilUol  de- 
volopnienl  may  help  oUicn*  to 
see  that  a  world  Boeiulist  revolu- 
tion will  free  all  mankind  from 
many  of  ilic  ills  that  now  infest 
the  world 

I  was  bom  30  years  ago  in  Har- 
tem  Hospital,  New  York  City.  My 
formal  criucalion  W05  In  the  local 
elementary  schoob  until  1»50, 
when  I  attended  Commerce  Hi(!h 
School  for  one  year.  At  U»e  a^e 
of  16,  after  ten  borinR  years  of 
gchoot.  I  quit.  1  have  no  reams 
ot  this  lime  over  that  decision. 
When  I  started  to  acquire  a  real 
education  in  my  early  twenties, 
I  did  not  have  tliat  much  insidious 
brainwashing  to  get  out  of  my 
tnind. 

The  curric.iluin  of  the  public 
schools  I  attended  Included  such 
racist  (Teins  as  "Little  hiack  Sam- 
bo," "Dirk  and  Jane"  wllh  their 
wlutc  middlir-cla.'s  .suburban  back- 
jtround,  a  white  raci.st  slavemaslcr 
"George  Wa.shinKlon"  who  I  was 
told  is  tJic  fatlier  of  "our"  country 
and  freed  his  slaves  in  his  will. 
Also  I  was  tauRht  to  sin*!  the 
Standard  insidious  nonsense,  "My 
Country  'Tis  of  Thee,"  "America 
the  Beautiful,"  "Tlie  Slar  Spanalcd 
Banner"  and  to  ri-"Cile  that  vicious 
lie.  "The  Pledge  of  AllcKianoe" 
about  "liberty  and  ju.-ilire  for  all." 
To  dissect  and  analyze  the  so- 
called  system  of  citucnllon  in 
America,  which  actually  Is  a  .sys- 
tem of  mass  indtxrliination.  would 
be  a  va.sl  book  in  itself.  Lot  il  suf- 
fice to  s.iy  that  I  discovered  that 
the  main  functions  of  tlie  Ameri- 
can school  system,  the  entire  mass 
media  of  cimmiumcation,  the 
world  ot  enlerlainnient  and  Ihe 
Chunhe.t  ure  the  It.Mhing  "f  the 
unholy  trinity  "Christianity,  Cain- 
talism  and  Caucisiaiu.sm,"  and  at- 
tempting to  persuade  all  Ameri- 
cans to  judne  overytlUng  from 
those  points  of  view 

My  godfather  introduced  me  to 
.^ine  of  the  works  of  J  A.  Hogers 


P.\tIL  iiOV.yAA.E.  Horn  30 
years  a^o  in  llarleni.  Altendi-d 
pulilic  schools  until  a;;c  of  16. 
Wuriieil  at  many  occupiition.s 
inrliiilifi;,'  InieU  driver,  (jardon- 
cr  and  salcsmHii:  now  employed 
u.s  call  driver.  .Spent  pa.st  seven 
years  slud.vint;  different  idcol- 
ni,'ics  sinil  orKnniz.itions  rlaini- 
\ng  lo  liiive  answers  to  prnli- 
lenis  of  contemporary  society. 
Aclive  sinre  I9«3  in  tr.vine  lo 
ori^ani/i-  I'rreduin  Now  Party. 
Married  and  father  of  9-year- 
nld    son. 

-on  African  and  AfroAjnerie.-m  hi;^ 
tory  when  1  was  around  12,  but 
I  did  n'>l  really  begin  to  delve 
InU)  it  scrioiisly  until  my  early 
twentt^-s. 

It  was  only  during  the  last  seven 
jt-ars  (hat  1  be^^an  to  acquire  an 
awareness  of  tlie  true  history  of 
Afrir:»it-s  and  Afro-Americans, 
knowled;:e  i>f  the  world  ui  g*'nci-al 
and  the  hist«)ry  of  otlior  olhiiic 
Cruujts  that  make  up  tlie  iiiunan 
famdy. 

My  first  awakening  was  a  na- 
tionalist awakening,  a  feoiing  oi 
pride  in  being  uiack  and  a  feeling 
of   revulsion   aiid    hatred   at  what 


this  capitalist  raci.st  syKleni  did 
and  is  doing  to  p<-<iple  of  coli>r 
throiii^houl  the  world.  Around 
1!>57  1  began  lisl^'iiing  li»  inon^ 
loihi  .oi  Afri.-.in  .,i,.l  Afr..-.\,„,.r- 
ir.in  ■|«-.-.ki-r%  In.rn  Maleolni  X  lo 
till-    lion  ii-ligioii-.    Iilaek    ii.ili-inal 

l.sis 

I  t<-ll  Ihen,  as  t  do  ni>w.  thai 
I.I.I.  1>  II  ,li..iialiMi  i:  n,He.«iry  !.. 
Ilie  111  lilliy  ih'veliipiiieiU  of  niy 
i.L-..|ili  We  first  have  lo  re^pcil, 
hi»noi-.  know  and  love  ourselves 
:is  li'iinan  l>rings  before  we  can 
cslalilish  a  lieaUhy  relalii'nship 
v/ilh  mhers.  The  ratisl  nili  is  of 
Ihe  Weslein  woild  reali/e  that  us 
l"n«  as  black  pn.ple  feel  inferior 
lo  whiles  and  are  kept  igneranl 
of  lli'ir  true  history,  the  status 
quo  can  easily  be  maintained  and 
black  ix'ople  kept  enslaved.  Any 
moveuieiit  among  blacks  from  the 
ConBo  to  Harlem  to  recognize 
themselves  as  human  beings  and 
to  strive  to  Control  thcm.vlvoscco- 
nomiialiy.  ctiltiirally.  politically  or 
olherwi.so  is  detrimental  to  the 
United  States  government  and  all 
oilier  ruling  classes  of  the  Western 
world 

Hnwi-ver.  black  n.'itionalism  is  a 
U-miH.r.iry  pha.se  in  tlie  devclop- 
iiirni  of  black  pel. pie  as  human 
Ix-int-N  in  the  v.ist  .1.  tiKMHiU.OlM) 
I><.i>|ilo  of  various  ethnic  groups 
tlial  .iiittabil  this  planet.  i.Iack  na- 
tionalism CUD  he  detiinieiital  un- 
der ini)»roi»er  leadership  anri  with- 
out a  class  iiDdersiandiiig  of  so- 
ciety. All  that  glitters  is  not  gold, 
and  onie  of  those  that  yell  black 
naltonalisiii  can  be  masquerading 
under  a  false  front  when  they 
clauii  an  interest  in  the  suffering 
black  ma.s.ses. 

Ill  I  "Wis  the  Chinese  spoke  of 
three  ly|ies  of  nationalism  in  one 
of  their  replies  to  Ru.ssia  during 
the  Sino-Sovict  dispute  ---  prog- 
r.-ssive.  reactionary  .-mil  chauvin- 
i.lir  ii.ili.Mialisni  Hw  latter  two 
.'ii*e  wh.-it  black  pci>plc  have  to  he 
wary  of.  1  realized  that  as  im- 
portant .IS  black  nation:ili-:m  and 
tlie  study  of  African  an,i  .'Vfro- 
American  history  are,  it  is  diffi- 
cult, without  a  liroad  outlook  of 
the  world  as  a  whole,  the  histc  les 


1036    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTINQ,  AND  BURNING 


Wood  Exhibit  No.  2 — Continued 


of  olIiiT  ethnic  (;n>»|>s,  the  history 
and  dcvc)opnicnl  f»f  rlassfs,  vcji- 
gions,  scienrc,  to  (rnly  undcrstniid 
the  world  .'oicl  di-volop  effeilive 
means  for  rli,in;;inR  Iho  r.lnti:s  t|iio 
for  the  hcllcrmenl  of  the  tip- 
pressed  peoples. 

My  sejirch  for  under;:tnn(iing 
went  into  invest ij'idin);  many  pliil- 
osophies.  ri'lirions  an, I  different 
historieal  r>oints  of  view.  1  was 
hmkinf:  fur  the  ideology  or  phil- 
o.sophy  that  h;\<l  a  truly  universal 
outlook  and  Ihni  would  be  not 
only  a  guide  for  under.slandinK  hut 
a  (?uide  for  action  lo  bring  .ibout 
chance. 

In  socialism  I  know  tliat  1  have 
found  it.  Dialectical  maleriahsin 
I  l)olie\'c  lo  be  the  bes(  frame  of 
reference  to  judge  myself,  my  peo* 
■pic,  people  in  cenernl  and  the 
whole  world  of  nature  and  nil 
of  its  manifestations  The  truth  is 
being  revealed  to  me  more  find 
more  every  day  of  tlie  necessity 
for  a  socialist  rcvolulion  utilizing 
the  tools  of  Marxism  lo  free  all 
mankind  from  cultural,  ethnic, 
political  and  economic  tyranny. 

I  believe  that  Malcolm  X  was 
moving  in  a  direelion  whrrh  would 
have  greatly  aided  the  stmCKle  of 
Afro-American-;  for  tot:d  rio.-inci- 
pation.  I  had  the  plea  aire  of  hear- 
ing him  for  seven  years,  and  of 
watching  his  gradual  change  dur- 
ing the  year  before  his  tra/jic 
death.  He  developed  away  from 
the  too-easy  explanation  that  peo- 
ple with  less  pigmentation  in  their 
skins  arc  the  cau.se  of  the  world's 
probl<;ms,  to  the  point  where  he 
realized  that  this  vicious  system 
m.ikcs  devils  out  of  most  of  the 
people  who  live  in  it,  black  and 
while. 

Dialectical  materialism  explains 
the  fad  that  whites  have  the  un- 
holy distinction  of  being  the  per- 
petrators of  oppression  over  a 
400-yenr  period.  It  also  explains 
the  non  white  clas.'^-eonscious  re- 
volt taking  place  in  the  world 
and  the  (act  tlwt  the  class  con- 
tradictions in  while  society  will 
cause  white  workers  and  op- 
pressed whites  to  .sec  that  they 
liave  a  stake  in  building  n  better 
world. 

It  shows  how  we  can  build  a 
world  where  people  arc  no  longer 
alienated  from  themselves,  from 
nature  and  from  their  political 
and  economic  Instilulions;  a  world 


wlu'ie  we  can  ho  masters  of  our 
own  destiny,  knowing  our  past, 
owning  our  |)rc.sent,  consciou..ly 
pl.uiniiig  our  future,  and  facing 
problems  other  tlian  race,  religion, 
class  and  economic  insecurit.y 


Viitpil  Republican 

In  in.ie  as  a  political  novice  I 
voted  a  straight  Republican  ticket 
and  in  19.'>7  1  became  a  menilwr 
of  the  NAACP.  By  the  time  of  the 
1900  elections  I  had  acquired 
enough  awareness  to  realize  that 
there  wasn't  cny  real  difference 
between  Kennedy  and  Nixon. 
'Hiroiigh  rneeling  pt'titioners  of  the 
Socialist  Workers  Parly,  reading 
their  literature  and  attcmlinB 
meetings,  I  changed  from  a  poten- 
tial non-voter  that  year  to  a  voter 
for  the  piesidcntinl  ticket  of  the 
SWr.  I  did  not  join  any  political 
party,  but  from  19G0  onward  I 
began  lo  survey  the  political 
groups  and  tendencies,  both  radi- 
cal and  reformist.  Political  science 
and  economics  became  two  of  my 
main  interests. 

In  l!l«:)  1  heard  William  Worthy, 
AJro-Av)t:r'icnn  journ.'ilist,  publi- 
cise the  idea  of  an  all-biuek  po- 
lilic;il  parly  .md  T  war:  favor.iblc 
toward  it.  i'roiu  Ihe  lall  of  l'J('3 
until  early  lUSS  I  was  active  in 
trying  lo  build  a  Freedom  Now 
Parly  .iifiong  black  peopnT"  T 'feel 
that  a  political  organization  truly 
repre.'.cniinf;  the  needs  and  inter- 
ests of  AfrcvAinericans  can  be 
very  instrumenial  in  getting  Ihem 
interested  and  involved  in  politics. 
Political  education  '  other  than 
what  the  establishment  offers  Is 
vital  to  the  stniggle  for  black 
frceiloin. 

Because  capitalism  is  anti  black 
and  anti-working  cla.ss,  it  offers  no 
prospect  for  freedom  individually 
or  collectively  for  oppressed  black 
peoples  and  workers  of  all  nation- 
alities. A  Freedom  Now  Party 
promoting  the  intcrcsto  of  the 
black  masses  who  are  predomi* 
nanlly  workers  will  have  to  l)e  in 
conflict  with  the  capitalist  system 
and  the  rulers  of  the  system.  My 
recent  experiences  have  forced  me 
to  conclude  that  it  is  premature 
at  this  time  for  a  Freedom  Now 
Party  to  achieve  mass  growth. 
But  in  the  near  future  I  hope  to 
be  active  with  other  Afro-Ameri- 
cans   In    creating   a    mass,    class- 


conseioi 
people. 


political  part;.   t,l  black 


Arretted  Twice 

During  the  .'-ummer  of  )9G4  I 
was  arrested  twice  as  t  atlempled 
lo  speak  at  public  meetings  in 
Ilarhin  to  express  my  political 
views  and  win  supjiort  for  my 
campaign  as  Freedom  Now  Parly 
candidate  for  the  .State  Senate 
from  the  2!st  di.strict.  The  arrests 
were  the  result  of  the  ban  on  cer- 
tain groups  and  individuals  .speak- 
ing in  Harlem  after  the  •'disturb- 
ances" last  .Tuly.  1  won  my  cases 
in  court  and  now  have  a  lawsuit 
against  the  City  of  New  York  for 


After  ohierving  different  social- 
ist and  communist  organizations, 
.such  as  the  Communist  Party,  So- 
cialist Party,  .Socialist  Labor  Par- 
ty, Progressive  Labor  Movement 
and  Socialist  Workers  Party,  and 
after  becoming  acquainted  with 
their  literature,  past  record  and 
future  plans,  I  have  chosen  the 
Socialist  Workers  Party  as  the 
parly  Ix-st  suited  to  unite  revolu- 
tionary Americans  with  opprcs,sed 
peoples  throughout  the  world. 

I  have  read  many  wtirks  by 
Leon  Trotsky  and  SWP  members, 
and  have  learned  that  the  SWP 
has  a  consistent  record  of  engag- 
ing in  Independent  class  politics. 
Is  the  Marxist  organization  that 
has  developed  the  best  analysis 
of  black  nationalL-OTi,  and  has  l>een 
from  the  start  a  firm  supporter 
of  efforts  to  build  an  independent 
black  political  party.  I  feel  that 
participating  in  its  rants  will  en- 
hance both  my  political  under- 
standing   and    activiUes. 

When  I  embarked  on  tlie  end- 
less search  for  truth,  I  realized 
it  would  mean  investigating  var- 
ied philosophies,  with  the  possi- 
bility of  my  rejecting  all  of  them 
and  developing  my  own  criteria 
to  judge  the  world  and  all  that  is 
part  of  it.  I  am  proud  to  say  that 
my  present  thoughts  and  actions 
are  nil  the  result  of  my  fret'ly  in- 
vestigating ideas  and  thinking  for 
myself.  My  proudest  possession 
has  always  been  ownership  of  my 
mind.  Now  that  I  am  associated 
with  other  minds  that  have  simi- 
lar ideas  about  change  and  meth- 
ods for  change,  I  feel  very  con- 
fident and  optimistic  about  the 
future. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1  037 

Mr.  Collier  explained  that  he  had  a  little  difficulty  and  he  was 
trying  to  get  some  books  up  from  Philadelphia,  Pennsylvania.  He 
said  that  he  had  met  one  Che  Guevara  at  the  U.N.  the  other  night  and 
Mr.  Guevara  had  asked  him  to  obtain  some  books  so  that  they  could 
be  transmitted  to  Cuba. 

Now  the  books  in  question  were  books  pertaining  to  ventilation, 
electrical  maintenance,  mechanical  drawings,  arithmetic  books,  books 
more  or  less  of  a  technical  nature. 

The  next  day  I  met  Mr.  Collier  and  I  took  him  over  to  the  down- 
town chapter  of  CORE,  which  I  explained  the  previous  night  that, 
being  a  member  of  CORE,  I  had  access  to  various  publications  or 
books  which  might  be  of  interest  to  him.  He  agreed  to  accompany  me 
over  to  the  downtown  chapter  of  CORE,  and  ^ye  started  to  look 
through  the  books  and  we  made  some  various  selections.  We  took  some 
of  the  books  back  to  his  house  and  the  rest  of  the  books  I  took  up  to  a 
friend  of  mine's  house. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  at  that  time  know  who  Che  Guevara  was? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir;  he  was  one  of  the  revolutionary  leaders  in 
Cuba. 

Mr.  Smith,  Did  you  have  any  further  discussion  with  Collier  sub- 
sequent to  this  event  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  I  had  a  rather  long,  lengthy  discussion  with 
Mr.  Collier,  in  which  he  explained  that  although  he  wasn't  a  mem- 
ber of  CORE  he  had  been  a  member  of  RAM,  which  is  the  Revolu- 
tionary Action  Movement.  Mr.  Collier  exj^lained  that  he  was  tired  of 
RAM.  He  said  it  was  ineffectual  and  inactive  at  the  time,  and  since  he 
described  himself  as  an  "activist,"  which  I  might  add  is  defined  as 
one  who  is  a  doer,  more  so  than  just  a  supporter,  he  said  that  he  had 
plans  of  starting  some  sort  of  movement  known  as  the  Black  Libera- 
tion Front. 

He  said  that  he  had  attended  a  Cuban  seminar  at  the  North  Viet- 
namese Embassy  in  Cuba.  He  said  while  he  was  there  he  had  been 
trained  by  a  North  Viet  Cong  major  in  the  art  of  handling  explosives 
and  guerrilla  warfare.  He  said  that  he  wanted  to  organize  a  similar 
group  within  the  United  States.  This  would  be  composed  of  young 
men  known  as  the  Black  Militia,  whereby  they  could  remain  on  stand- 
by alert  in  case  of  any  worldwide  revolution  by  members  of  the  revolu- 
tionary forces. 

His  particular  group.  Black  Militia,  of  the  Black  Liberation  Front, 
would  be  on  standby. 

He  then  described  how  he  was  taught  by  this  particular  North  Viet- 
namese major  to  make  Molotov  cocktails. 'He  went  into  great  detail  on 
how  to  use  a  mortar.  He  said  that  the  Viet  Cong  has  a  method  of  walk- 
ing-in  the  mortars,  whereby,  for  example,  he  said  if  we  were  to  attack 
a  local  police  station  during  a  reveille  or  some  sort  of  large  demonstra- 
tion, we  could  send  our  first  round  into  the  center  of  the  group.  This 
is  called  firing  for  effect.  After  that  we  could  systematically,  north, 
east,  south,  and  west,  walk-in  each  mortar  shell  so  that  it  could  obtain 
the  maximum  effect  of  fragmentation  upon  each  individual  within  this 
particular  group. 

He  then  described  how  he  was  going  to  do  it.  He  had  made  plans 
whereby  we  could  attack  New  York  State  armories  in  order  to  obtain 
arms.  He  was  thinking  of  starting  some  sort  of  extensive  demolition 


1 038    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

work  on  United  States  ground  and  air  installations,  destroying  run- 
ways. 

He  then  made  another  suggestion  that  possibly  the  White  House  and 
Congress  could  be  bombed  from  the  air. 

Last,  but  not  least,  which  was  of  particular  interest  to  us,  he  men- 
tioned how  he  could  lob  a  few  grenades  into  a  local  police  station. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  he  make  any  statement  as  to  organization  of  teams 
to  accomplish  this  work  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Will  you  repeat  the  question,  sir  ? 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  he  make  any  statement  respecting  organization  of 
teams  to  accomplish  this  work  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  He  made  mention  that  our  particular  organiza- 
tion, which  was  to  be  known  as  the  Northern  Area  of  the  Black  Libera- 
tion Front — our  primary  concern  during  any  time  of  social  unrest  was 
to  make  some  sort  of  liaison  with  members  of  the  French  Liberation 
forces,  which  is  an  activist  group  in  Canada.  He  was  mentioning  that 
we  could  contact  them  in  order  to  obtain  explosives  and  be  more  or  less 
taught  in  the  handling  of  these  high  explosives,  or  plastique  as  they 
call  it  in  Canada. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  he  make  any  specific  statement  as  to  how  he  would 
destroy  America  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  he  did  mention  that  he  was  thinking  of  attacking 
outside  of  these  bases ;  I  can't  really  recall  any  specific  instance  of  how 
he  was  going  to  go  about  it,  other  than  the  way  I  have  explained. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Collier  discuss  the  Freedom  Now  Party  in  New 
York? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  he  did.  Bob  Collier,  to  my  understanding,  had 
no  use  for  Mr.  Boutelle.  He  claimed  that  Mr.  Boutelle  was  too  passive, 
and  so  forth.  However,  he  did  say  that  Mr.  Boutelle  could  serve  his 
particular  purpose  in  the  organization  by  using  the  Freedom  Now 
Party  as  a  front  organization  for  the  Black  Liberation  Front  and 
thereby  giving  it  some  aura  of  legitimacy. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  attend  a  meeting  at  the  home  of  Robert  Collier 
on  January  19, 1965  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Will  you  describe  what  took  place  at  the  meeting? 

Mr.  Wood.  At  this  particular  meeting  I  was  introduced  to  one 
Walter  Bowe  and  one  Khaleel  Sayyed.  Mr.  Collier  had  mentioned  that 
these  two  men  were  coming  down  and  that  perhaps  we  could  discuss 
some  area  where  we  could  finally  get  the  Black  Liberation  Front 
underway. 

Mr.  Smith.  Was  this  the  first  time  you  met  the  last  two  you  named, 
Walter  Bowe  and  Sayyed  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir ;  this  was  the  first  time  I  met  them..  During  this 
particular  meeting  I  remember  distinctly  Mr.  Bowe— we  had  men- 
tioned a  particular  target  whereby  we  could  inflict  some  sort  of  morale 
damage  upon  the  United  States.  Bob  Collier  and  myself  had  been 
discussing  means  whereby  we  could  start  some  sort  of  demolition. 

There  was  some  mention  of  blowing  up  docks  along  the  New  York 
City  waterfront.  However,  when  Mr.  Bowe  came,  he  said  he  had  been 
paying  particular  attention  to  the  Statue  of  Liberty.  He  said  that 
this  would  be  an  excellent  way  whereby  we  could  really  hurt  America. 


SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  m  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1  039 

Mr.  Smith,  Did  you  have  another  meeting  with  Collier  on  January 
22, 1965,  and  were  other  persons  present  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  visit  the  Statue  of  Liberty  at  the  suggestion  of 
Collier? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  On  January  24  I  took  a  trip  out  to  the  Statue 
of  Liberty.  I  might  explain  that  at  that  particular  time  I  took  an 
empty  shopping  bag  to  more  or  less  test  the  security  precautions  at 
the  Statue  of  Liberty.  The  bag  was  empty.  I  managed  to  get  past  the 
guard  and  walk  straight  up  to  the  Statue  of  Liberty's  head. 

Mr.  Smith.  Will  you  describe  the  purpose  of  the  January  meeting, 
January  22,  1965,  where  these  other  people  were  present? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  believe  it  was  the  January  24  meeting;  after  I  had  left 
the  Statue  of  Liberty,  I  came  back  to  Mr.  Boutelle's  house,  which  is  on 
105th  Street  on  Central  Park  West,  and  there  I  met  Bob  Collier.  I 
told  Bob  Collier  that  this  particular  plan  could  be  carried  off  easily. 
I  explained  to  him  the  lax  security  situation.  Then  he  mentioned  that 
he  was  going  to  make  a  phone  call  to  a  Michelle.  He  did  not  mention 
her  last  name.  He  said  that  this  Michelle  was  an  employee  at  the  Em- 
bassy. He  said  that  although  he  couldn't  pay  for  the  stuff  that  we 
would  need  in  order  to  do  the  job  on  the  Statue  of  Liberty,  he  said 
that  he  would  be  able  to  get  the  materials  from  Michelle. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  understand  what  embassy  was  involved? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  believe  that  he  intimated  it  was  the  Cuban  Embassy 
that  she  was  working  in. 

Mr.  Smith.  Here  in  the  United  States  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  No,  sir;  this  was  in  Montreal,  Canada. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Did  this  turn  out  later  to  be  Michelle  Duclos,  the 
one  that  was  arrested  and  indicted  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  No,  sir.  She  came  at  a  later  stage.  This  was  one  Michelle 
Saunier. 

Mr.  Smith.  Will  you  describe  for  us  the  purpose  of  your  visiting  the 
Statue  of  Liberty  with  this  shopping  bag  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir;  the  purpose  was  mainly  to  test  the  security 
precautions  at  the  Statue  of  Liberty.  It  was  one  way  in  which  we 
could  find  out  at  that  particular  time  whether  it  would  be  a  feasible 
plan  and  whether  it  could  actually  be  carried  out.  There  was  some  fear, 
I  have  to  admit,  by  the  four  of  us  that  it  would  be  very  possible  that 
upon  trying  to  get  into  the  Statue  itself  that  we  would  be  stopped  and 
frisked  and  our  persons  would  be  searched. 

So,  in  order  to  dispel  this  fear,  we  had  to  try  actually  to  see  if  any- 
thing would  happen  like  that. 

Mr.  Smith.  Would  you  tell  us  whether  or  not  there  was  any  involve- 
ment with  the  American  Nazi  Party  in  this  connection  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir ;  after  I  had  returned  to  Mr.  Boutelle's  house — 
correction,  after  I  had  gone  to  Mr.  Boutelle's  house.  Bob  Collier  no- 
ticed a  copy  of  the  stormtrooper  lying  on  the  floor.  He  picked  the  copy 
up  and  said,  "We  might  be  able  to  make  use  of  these  fellows."  He  was 
talking  about  attacking  the  American  Nazi  Party  and  more  or  less 
"wasting,"  which  is  a  slang  term  for  killing,  some  of  these  members. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  he  indicate  what  would  be  the  purpose  of  that? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  it  would  prove  as  a  testing  ground  for  the  effective- 
ness of  the  Black  Liberation  Front  per  se.  He  more  or  less  felt  they 


1  040    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

were  expendable,  and  possibly  we  could  gain  some  valuable  experi- 
ence by  "wasting"  them. 

Mr.  Smith.  On  January  26,  1965,  did  you  have  another  meeting  at 
Collier's  home  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did.  At  this  particular  meeting  Bob  Collier, 
Walter  Bowe,  and  Khaleel  Sayyed,  as  well  as  myself,  were  present. 
Walter  Bowe  made  specific  mention  of  how  we  could  plant  the  explo- 
sives in  order  to  completely  destroy  the  Statue  of  Liberty.  He  said  that 
he  had  a  means  of  entry  whereby  we  could  snap  a  lock  which  was  con- 
tained on  a  small  trapdoor  leading  into  the  head  of  the  statue.  He 
said  we  could  break  the  latch  on  this  particular  door  and  go  right  in 
and  plant  the  explosives. 

Bob  Collier  also  mentioned  a  means  of  tamping  the  explosion.  By 
tamping,  which  is  a  technical  term,  the  way  he  explained  it,  it  is  a 
means  whereby  you  take  the  explosive  and  pack  it  with  sandbags,  so 
rather  than  get  an  explosion  you  get  an  implosion  which  would  cause 
extensive  damage  to  the  interior  of  the  statue. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Ichord  entered  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Collier  indicate  where  explosives  were  to  be  ob- 
tained ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir ;  he  mentioned  he  was  going  to  get  them  from  this 
^irl  Michelle.  At  this  point  Khaleel  Sayyed  interrupted  and  said,  "Who 
IS  this  Michelle  ?  I  have  been  hearing  Michelle.  I  don't  know  who  she 
is."  Bob  Collier  explained  she  was  his  babe  in  Canada.  She  was  an 
activist  and  she  had  been  dropping  plastic  explosives  into  mailboxes. 

Mr.  Smith.  In  Canada  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  in  Montreal,  Canada.  He  said  she  was  okay. 

Mr.  Smith.  How  did  he  propose  getting  these  explosives  into  the 
country  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  This  presented  quite  a  problem.  Number  one,  we  were 

foing  to  rent  a  car  and  we  were  going  to  take  the  car  and  tear  out  the 
ack  seat  portion  and  pack  the  explosives  around  the  rear  of  the  car. 
We  were  also  considering  taking  empty  gas  cans  and  filling  them  half- 
way with  explosives,  putting  a  false  bottom  on  it,  and  filling  the  rest 
of  it  up  with  gasoline. 

Of  course  this  particular  point  really  was  discussed.  It  was  of  great 
concern  because  we  were  worrying  about  how  we  could  actually  get 
the  explosives  back  in  the  United  States  without  being  detected. 

At  one  point  Bob  Collier  mentioned  that  if  the  members  of  the 
border  patrol,  or  whoever  was  stationed  there  in  order  to  search  the 
vehicles,  made  an  attempt  to  search  his  particular  vehicle,  he  would 
"waste"  them  on  the  spot. 

Of  course,  Walter  Bowe  broke  in  and  said  immediately,  "No,  Bob, 
I  think  you  had  better  take  the  bust,"  which  means  allow  yourself  to 
be  arrested,  "because  we  may  have  to  use  you  at  a  later  time." 

Mr.  Smith.  What  did  he  say  to  do  in  the  event  you  were  arrested  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  in  the  event  we  were  arrested,  then  of  course  we 
would  have  to  play  it  as  if  these  were  our  particular  explosives.  We 
would  take  the  full  responsibility  for  trying  to  smuggle  this  con- 
traband into  the  United  States. 

Secondly,  Bowe  was  also  concerned  about  getting  pistols.  At  that 
particular  time  Ave  sat  down  and  said  we  are  going  to  need  some  sort 
of  firearms.  I  suggested  we  also  bring  pistols  back.  I  think  Walter 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1  041 

Bowe  wanted  a  Luger,  and  I  an  "MM" ;  Khaleel  Sayyed  wanted  a  .45 
and  a  couple  of  rifles. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  there  any  other  national  shrines  to  be  included 
in  this  plot  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  During  this  discussion  we  also  went  into  plans 
whereby  we  could  also  blow  up  the  Liberty  Bell  in  Philadelphia, 
Pennsylvania,  as  well  as  the  Washington  Monument  here  in  Wash- 
ington, D.C.  We  went  at  great  length  into  how  we  could  deploy  our 
forces  more  or  less  to  do  specific  jobs.  We  knew  that  we  had  four 
of  us  readily  available.  All  we  had  to  do  was  get  two  more  members. 

Now,  Walter  Bowe  and  myself,  we  were  to  blow  up  the  Liberty  Bell. 
The  means  we  were  going  to  blow  up  the  Liberty  Bell  would  be  by 
entering  the  hall,  taking  four  or  five  sticks  of  wrapped  dynamite, 
lighting  the  fuse,  tossing  it  under  the  bell,  and  of  course  run.  The  car 
would  be  waiting  outside,  and  we  would  go  across  the  bridge  to 
Camden,  New  Jersey. 

As  far  as  the  Washington  Monument  was  concerned.  Bob  Collier 
said  he  knew  a  fellow  named  Doug — I  don't  know  his  last  name — 
who  was  living  in  Washington.  Walter  Bowe  suggested  another  person 
whom  I  would  prefer  to  mention  at  a  later  time.  He  would  l)e  able 
to  team  up  with  this  fellow  named  Doug  and  they  would  be  able  to 
destroy  the  Washington  Monument. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  go  to  Canada  with  Collier? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  I  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  Would  you  describe  that  trip,  please  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  on  January  29,  1965,  Bob  Collier  and  I  rented  a 
vehicle.  We  proceeded  to  Canada.  "When  we  arrived  in  Canada,  we 
went  to  the  home  of  one  Michelle  Saunier.  I  can't  remember  her  ad- 
dress, but  while  we  were  there,  Michelle  Saunier  said  she  would  try  to 
help  us  in  order  to  locate  the  dynamite — as  she  termed  it  at  that  partic- 
ular time  she  said  the  "stuff,"  she  would  try  to  locate  the  stuff ;  once 
she  made  contact,  she  would  let  us  know.  We  explained  to  her  we 
didn't  have  enough  money.  She  said  she  didn't  believe  that  would  be 
a  problem.  AVe  had  breakfast  that  morning.  Michelle  Saunier  left.  She 
came  back  and  asked  us  to  describe  in  detail  what  we  wanted.  We  told 
her  for  our  particular  job  which  we  had  in  mind  we  needed  about  30 
pomids  of  plastic  explosives,  we  needed  about  10  blasting  caps,  6  feet 
of  primer  cord. 

We  told  her  that  this  was  going  to  be  a  verj-  big  job,  one  that  would 
have  worldwide  notoriety,  and  she  would  be  proud  of  herself  for  help- 
ing us  in  this  particular  case.  Michelle  Saunier  then  went  out  and  said 
that  we  would  have  to  wait  until  the  next  morning,  which  would  be 
January  31. 

During  the  evening  of  January  31  we  were  joined  by  one  Michelle 
Duclos.  She  came  in  and  Bob  began  to  explain  exactly  what  we  needed. 
She  said  perhaps  she  might  be  able  to  help  us. 

Michelle  Duclos  described  herself  as  an  activist.  She  said  her  hus- 
band was  a  member  of  the  FLN,  which  had  engaged  in  a  fight  with 
the  French  o^-er  Algeria.  She  said  she  was  strongly  pro-French  Cana- 
dian and  she  wished  to  see  French  Canada  separated  from  Great 
Britain. 

She  also  described  that  she  was  a  staff  member  of  some  sort  of  TV 
program.  I  think  she  was  a  TV  program  director,  somethuig  like  that. 


1  042    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

in  Montreal.  However,  she  also  acted  on  the  side  as  a  prostitute.  She 
said  she  would  go  down  to  the  U.N.  in  New  York  City  and  more  or 
less  enlist  girls  to  cany  on  various  acts  of  prostitution  in  order  to 
solicit  or  elicit  information  from  the  U.N.  personnel. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  she  indicate  or  was  there  any  information  to  you 
that  she  misused  these  connections  with  the  U.N.  personnel  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  she  wanted  to  take  these  interludes  with  these  dip- 
lomats and  perhapys  blackmail  them  at  a  later  time  so  that  she  could 
obtain  money  and  their  aid  during  discussions  concerning  the  separa- 
tion of  French  Canada  from  Canada  proper. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  you  bring  the  explosives  down  with  you  at  the  time  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  No,  sir.  At  the  time  Miss  Duclos  was  unable  to  obtain 
the  explosives.  She  apologized  to  us.  She  said,  "Don't  worry,  I  will 
have  them  down  there  on  or  about  February  15, 1965." 

Of  course.  Bob  Collier  and  I  were  quite  disappointed.  We  left  the 
next  day,  I  believe  February  the  2d. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  she  actually  make  the  attempt  to  bring  the  explo- 
sives in  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Not  at  that  particular  time.  On  February  2  Bob  Collier 
and  I  met  with  Khaleel  Sayyed  and  Walter  Bowe  and  we  explained  to 
the  two  of  them  that  we  were  unable  to  obtain  the  explosives  at  that 
particular  time.  However,  Michelle  would  bring  the  explosives  down 
on  February  15.  Bob  Collier  made  some  remarks  about  distributing 
leaflets  to  let  everyone  know  that  the  Black  Liberation  Front  was  an 
operation — this  was  an  operation  by  the  Black  Liberation  Front. 

This  was,  of  course,  rejected  by  Walter  Bowe  who  felt  that  the  Black 
Liberation  Front  should  remain  anonymous  and  that  ultimately — if 
we  were  to  print  any  leaflets,  ultimately  we  would  be  detected  by  mem- 
bers of  the  New  York  City  Police  Department. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  May  I  ask  a  question  at  this  point  ? 

During  the  Algerian-French  crisis  there  was  a  group  of  people  who 
became  expert  in  the  use  of  plastic  explosives.  Was  the  use  of  plastic 
explosives  ever  discussed  by  Miss  Duclos  or  any  people  in  the  French 
Lioeration  Movement  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  that  particular  question  was  brought  up  time 
and  time  again.  There  was  quite  a  bit  of  discussion  on  the  use  oi  plas- 
tique.  She  described  it  as  being  an  extremely  safe  type  of  explosives. 
She  said  that  possibly  this  would  be  the  only  type  of  explosive  that 
they  would  actually  deal  with.  However,  she  said  it  was  quite  expensive 
and  that  bringing  it  in  from  France  would  be  very  difficult  due  to  the 
cost  of  this  particular  type  of  explosive. 

I  do  recall  very  vividly  she  said  this  was  the  only  type  explosive 
she  would  consider  using. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  It  is  my  understanding  it  is  far  more  effective  and 
far  more  dangerous  and  easier  to  use  by  amateurs. 

Mr.  Wood.  That  is  true.  I  am  not  an  expert,  but  the  little  I  do  know 
about  it,  according  to  her  explanation,  is  that  it  can  be  carried.  There 
is  no  danger  of  detonation  other  than  by  blasting  cap. 

Mr.  Smith.  That  is  right. 

Did  you  ever  get  any  indication  while  you  were  in  Canada  as  to 
where  she  was  going  to  obtain  these  explosives  ?  From  whom  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  She  didn't  mention  anyone's  name.  However,  she  did  say 
that  she  had  friends  who  were  ready,  willing,  and  able  to  aid  in  any 
operation  which  would  be  carried  on  in  the  United  States.  She  kept 
asking  Bob  Collier,  "WTiat  type  of  operation  is  this  ?  When  is  it  coming 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1  043 

off?"  He  said,  "I  am  sorry,  I  can't  tell  you  that.  I  will  tell  you  when 
this  particular  operation  does  come  off  it  will  be  a  blast  that  can  be 
heard  around  the  world."  Those  were  his  words. 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Michelle  Duclos  ever  come  into  New  York  with  the 
explosives  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  On  February  16  I  received  a  phone  call  at 
approximately  1  o'clock  in  the  a.m.  It  was  Miss  Duclos.  It  was  from 
Miss  Duclos,  rather.  She  explained  she  was  here  in  New  York  and 
she  had  the  "stuff."  She  asked  me  to  meet  her  down  at  a  little  hotel 
on  112th  Street.  I  told  her  I  would  be  down  there  as  fast  as  I  could. 
I  jumped  into  a  cab  and  went  down  to  this  location.  Miss  Duclos  was 
very  excited.  She  said  she  had  'been  trailed  from  Canada  into  the 
United  States  by  someone  and  she  said  they  had  tried  to  follow  her. 
She  went  up  a  one-way  street,  and  the  car  followed  right  behind  her. 
Then  she  panicked  and  got  rid  of  the  dynamite  in  a  lot.  She  didn't 
know  the  location,  but  it  was  later  identified  as  the  Riverdale  section 
of  the  Bronx.  She  said  that  she  marked  on  a  wall  near  there  where 
she  had  left  the  dynamite.  She  asked  me,  if  possible,  to  contact  Bob 
Collier,  take  him  up  there,  and  pick  up  the  dynamite. 

Mr.  Smith.  When  were  the  arrests  made  in  this  case? 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  sir,  I  immediately  contacted  my  superiors.  They 
informed  me  to  pick  up  Bob  Collier  and  to  go  up  to  this  particular 
location.  I  did  so. 

On  the  way  up  there  Bob  Collier  was  very  jubilant.  He  said,  "I 
knew  Michelle  would  come  through  for  me.  I  knew.  Now  when  we 
get  this  stuff,  I  made  a  little  diagram  in  my  notebook  here,"  and  he 
showed  me  this  diagram.  It  was  the  platform  that  Walter  Bowe  had 
mentioned.  He  said,  "I  will  take  this  stuff  and  we  will  put  it  up  here 
and  we  will  tamp  it  right  in  the  head  and  we  will  blow  the  whole 
head  off."  He  said,  "We  shouldn't  have  any  problems  at  all." 

Then  he  began  to  go  on  about  how  the  BlacK  Liberation  Front  was 
going  to  be  recognized  by  everyone  and  how  the  Black  Liberation 
Front  would  be  feared. 

Mr.  Smith.  "VNTio  was  arrested  in  connection  with  this  plot? 

Mr.  Wood.  Actually  after  we  had  arrived  at  this  particular  location. 
Bob  Collier  went  into  the  lot  and  I  described  where  the  dynamite 
was  situated.  He  went  and  picked  up  the  dynamite  and  handed  it  to 
me.  I  then  handed  it  back  to  him.  We  walked  to  the  car.  At  that  time 
we  were  placed  under  arrest  by  members  of  the  New  York  City 
Police  Department  and  the  Federal  Bureau  of  Investigation. 

Mr,  Smith.  Wlio  was  arrested  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Bob  Collier  and  myself.  I  understand  later  on  Walter 
Bowe  and  Khaleel  Sayyed,  as  well  as  Michelle  Duclos,  were  all  picked 

up.  .       .  „ 

Mr.  Smith.  Did  Michelle  Duclos  turn  states  evidence  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  she  did. 

Mr.  Smith.  What  happened  to  her  subsequent  to  her  testimony? 

Mr.  Wood.  To  my  understanding,  Michelle  Duclos  was  subsequently 
deported  to  Canada.  I  believe  she  is  working  in  France  at  this  time. 

Mr.  Smith.  Were  any  of  the  defendants  convicted  in  this  plot? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir.  Kobert  Collier,  Walter  Bowe,  and  Khaleel 
Sayyed  were  all  convicted  of  conspiracy. 

Mr.  Smith.  Have  they  served  their  sentences  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  To  my  understanding  they  have  served  their  sentences 
and  they  are  now  out. 


1 044    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Smith.  At  this  point  permission  is  requested  to  introduce  into 
the  record  a  clipping  from  the  New  York  Times  of  July  9, 1967,  show- 
ing tha4^  Robert  Collier,  who  was  the  head  of  the  New  York  organiza- 
tion called  a  Committee  for  a  Tompkins  Square  Community  Center, 
which  was  formed  by  Negro,  Puerto  Rican,  and  hippy  leaders,  has  re- 
ceived the  use  of  a  city  building  to  carry  on  his  activities. 

The  Chairman.  Permission  is  granted. 

(Document  marked  "Wood  Exhibit  No.  3"  follows:) 


Wood  Exhibit  No.  3 


THE  NEW  YORK  TIMES.  SUN  DA  Y.  JULY  9.  1967 


Tompkins  Sq.  to  Git 
Community  Center 
With  the  City's  AH 


A  neifljiborliood  committee  in 
the  East  Village  hat  won  per- 
iniMion  from  the  city  to  convert 
a  gymnasium  that  has  been 
used  to  store  civilian  defense 
equipmei^  into  a  community 
center. 

Thp  group,  the  Committee  for 
a  Tompkins  Square  Community 
Center,  was  formed  several 
weeks  ago  by  some  of  the  Ne 
gro,  Puerto  Rican  and  hippie 
leaders  and  representatives  of 
various  nationsJ  factions  in  the 


The  square  has  been  a  center 
of  controversy  follAring  the 
arrests  of  38  nippies  in  a  clash 
with  policemen  in  the  park 
Memorial  Day. 

The  ^mnasium  is  in  a  build- 
ing at  Ml  East  9th  Street  that 
is  used  by  the  Department  of 
Welfare  as  a  training  center 
and  an  employment  and  rehab- 
iliutioo  center.  The  14-story 
building  was  formerly  a  settle- 
ment house. 

Clear  Out  EqoipaMat 

Last  week  Welfare  Commis- 
skmer  Mitchell  L  Ginsberg  and 


Heckscker  inspected  the  gym- 
nasium and  an  unused  swim- 
ming pool  in  the  building  with 
repnssBtatlves  from  the  oon- 
mittec.  Th^  agreed  to  place 
the  gynmasium  at  the  coaml^ 
tec's  disposal  for  a  center  and 
the  Wetfare  Department  began 
clearing  out  the  civilian  defense 
equipment 
CommisskHier  Ginsberg  said 


the  question  of  using  several 
offices  for  the  community  center 
was  still  under  consideration. 
The  offices  are  used  for  classes 
during  the  day  and  the  com- 
mittee inquired  whether  they 
could  be  used  at  night 

The  committee  gathered  more 
than  4,000  signatures  on  peti- 
tions that  were  given  to  Mafor 
Lindsay  a  few  weeks  ago  when 
be  was  in  the  neighborhood  at 
the  dedication  of  the  East  Vil- 
lage  Towers  housing  project 
'A  Clear  Necessity' 

Robert  Collier,  the  30-year- 
old  chairman  of  the  committee, 
said  the  "community  center 
was  a  cMr  necessity  for  the 
area  anMtaany  organizatioos 
and  people  have  pledged  their 
support  and  will  be  volunteer- 
ing their  time,  services  and 
equipment  to  help  establisb  H." 

Commissioner  Heckscher  said 
in  an  interview  that  be  was 
"impressed  with  the  determined 
group"  and  the  concept  of  uich 
a  center  "in  such  an  unusual 
community  with  so  much 
talent"  nugbt  be  valuable.  He 
said  that  his  department  woukl 
provide  short-term  custodial 
service  for  the  gymnasium, 
which  he  said  had  "a  fine, 
large,  flexible  space." 

He  said  his  department  had 
esthnated  the  cost  of  repairing 
the  pool  at  more  than  SISOXKW. 


Parks     Conunissk»er     August  He  said  the  pool  was  "quite 


snail  and  lacked  proper  facil- 
ities," but  added  that  if  the 
community  can  craate  a  s«c- 
ocasful  center  his  department 
would  then  consider  ways  to 
raise  the  necessary  funds.  "The 
pool  Is  still  an  open  question." 
be  said,  noting  that  his  depart* 
ment  plans  to  put  a  portable 
wading  pool  in  the  neiglibor- 
hood  in  the  next  few  wean. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1045 

Mr.  Smith.  Wliat  was  the  overall  x^urpose  of  blowing  up  the  Statue 
of  Liberty  and  the  carrying  out  of  the  various  other  activities  dis- 
cussed with  Collier? 

Mr.  Wood.  The  primary  purpose  of  course  was  to  cause  the  United 
States  embarrassment.  Secondly,  it  would  be  described  as  gaining 
recognition  for  the  Black  Liberation  Front  as  a  vehicle  for  Mr.  Col- 
lier's aims.  He  felt  that  the  Black  Liberation  Front  should  be  an 
organization  to  be  reckoned  with  and  that  it  should  be  able  to  carry 
out  future  assignments  after  the  destruction  of  our  national  shrmes. 
These  things  were  to  help  create  a  situation  of  guerrilla  warfare  in  the 
United  States.  They  would  mobilize  young  Negroes  who  wished  to 
fight  by  showing  them  that  somebody  is  prepared  to  take  positive 
violent  action,  and  while  Collier  talked  about  these  things  he  was  also 
attempting  to  recruit  young  people  into  his  group  who  would  be  used 
for  guerrilla  warfare  or  for  riot  activity  in  the  future.  At  one  point, 
he  stated  that  when  the  next  riot  takes  place  it's  not  gonna  be  some- 
thing with  the  cops  breaking  heads,  we're  gonna  have  our  chance  to 
break  heads. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  this  concludes  the  interrogation  of  this 
witness. 

The  Chairman.  Detective  Wood,  yesterday  when  Detective  Hart 
had  completed  his  testimony,  I  congratulated  him  for  extraordinary 
performance  of  duty  both  as  a  citizen  and  as  a  police  officer.  I  want 
to  take  this  opportunity  to  state  for  the  record  that,  in  my  view^ — and 
I  am  sure  in  the  view  of  all  members  of  this  subcommittee — what  I 
said  to  Detective  Hart  certainly  applies  equally  to  you.  In  penetrating, 
as  you  did,  a  group  of  ultraradical,  revolutionary,  hate- America 
types,  you  certainly  stuck  your  neck  out.  Moreover,  in  my  view,  you 
certainly  must  have  played  it  smart  to  remain  in  the  group,  apparently 
as  a  loyal  member,  until  the  right  moment  came  to  break  up  their 
shocking  plot. 

Your  action,  the  evidence  indicates,  saved  some  of  this  country's 
most  precious  monuments  from  destruction.  For  all  this  America  is 
indebted  to  you. 

Like  Detective  Hart,  you  are  indeed  not  only  a  credit  to  the  New 
York  Police  Department,  but  to  your  country. 

Again  I  congratulate  you  and  thank  you  for  appearing  before  the 
committee,  even  though  it  meant  giving  up  a  part  of  your  vacation 
to  be  here. 

Mr.  Wood.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairjman.  I  wish  we  had  more  like  you. 

Mr.  Wood.  Thank  you. 

The  Chairman.  Governor  Tuck,  have  you  any  questions? 

Mr.  Tuck:.  I  have  no  questions. 

The  Chairman.  Mr,  Ashbrook  ? 

Mr,  AsHBROOK.  Detective  Wood,  you  very  clearly  pointed  out  the 
plans  which  are  laid  by  many  of  these  people,  and  in  the  particular 
case  you  indicated  there  was  the  ability  to  get  the  explosives  to  carry 
out  their  plans.  We  have  heard  a  lot  of  testimony  on  the  threats,  plan- 
ning the  use  of  weapons. 

You  even  mentioned  mortars  here  today.  Central  to  any  success  in 
this  type  of  plan  would  have  to  be  the  ability  to  acquire  the  weapons. 
I  excluded  the  dynamite  you  have  already  mentioned. 


1046    SUBVERSIVE  INELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Was  there  any  indication  from  these  people  how  they  would  acquire 
firearms,  whether  they  be  small  or  whether  they  would  be  mortar? 
There  is  no  use  talking  about  weapons,  how  you  are  going  to  use  them, 
training,  demonstration,  if  you  don't  have  the  physical  ability  to 
acquire  the  weapons.  Was  there  any  indication  where  they  would  get 
the  weapons  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Bob  Collier  mentioned  attacking  various  State  armories 
throughout  the  United  States,  not  only  in  New  York,  during  the  par- 
ticular time — well,  let  us  say,  after  the  "revolution"  had  started.  Bob 
Collier  felt  that  various  contingents  of  the  Black  Liberation  Front, 
north,  east,  south,  and  west,  could  attack  various  State  armories  and 
thereby  acquire  some  of  the  National  Guard's  heavy  and  light  fire- 
power. 

Walter  Bowe  also  made  mention  of  attacking  or  robbing  various  gun 
stores  to  obtain  pistols.  He  felt  that  this  would  be  an  excellent  source 
of  supply.  Then,  of  course,  we  were  going  to  buy  some  outright 
wherever  we  could  find  them. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  At  any  of  the  meetings  that  you  attended  were  there 
weapons  evidenced?  I  assume  when  they  talked  about  the  use  of 
mortar  they  didn't  have  a  mortar  there  to  demonstrate,  but  were  there 
ever  any  weapons  present  at  the  meetings  you  attended  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir,  there  were  weapons.  Bob  Collier  had  in  his 
possession  at  the  time  of  his  arrest  and  during  the  time  I  met  with 
him  at  his  apartment,  he  had  a  carbine  which  could  be  converted 
into  a  semiautomatic  weapon.  I  remember  going  over  to  Walter  Bowe's 
house  one  night  and  he  was  showing  an  unidentified  Negro  male 
the  use  of  a  P-38  gun  which  is  an  extremely  heavy  weapon  as  far 
as  a  pistol  is  concerned. 

Khaleel  Sayyed  intimated  to  me  that  he  had  in  his  possession  various 
rifles.  So  there  was  a  nucleus,  more  or  less,  of  firepower  that  could,  of 
course,  be  converted  to  illegal  means  at  a  later  time. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  It  would  be  fair  to  say  there  was  not  any  great 
concentration  of  weaponry  they  had  available  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  No,  sir ;  there  was  no  stockpile  at  that  particular  time. 
Of  course,  the  general  consensus  was  that  after  we  had  completed 
this  particular  operation,  of  course  we  would  be  getting — we  were 
hoping  on  getting  formal  recognition  by  outside  groups.  There  was 
some  mention  of  bringing  contraband  in  from  France,  notably  more 
explosives,  and  possibly  some  firearms. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Was  there  ever  mention  of  bringing  weapons  from 
Cuba? 

Mr.  Wood.  I  don't  remember  their  mentioning  bringing  any  weapons 
from  Cuba.  Of  course  this  was  a  possibility  in  my  opinion. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  A  last  question. 

It  is  always  hard  to  clearly  demonstrate  cause  and  effect.  You 
certainly  can  give  an  opinion,  however.  There  was  talk  of  weapons. 
There  was  the  demonstration  on  how  they  would  be  used.  Would  it 
be  your  opinion  that  these  people,  when  pressed  at  the  proper  time, 
would  use  the  weapons?  In  other  words,  I  am  saying,  do  you  think 
it  was  idle  talk  or  do  you  think  they  really  intended  to  use  these 
weapons  in  some  kind  of  insurrection  or  riot  or  anything  that  might 
work  to  their  advantage  ? 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  047 

Mr.  Wood.  Yes,  sir;  in  my  opinion  this  was  a  definite  possibility. 
As  I  stated  previously,  Mr.  Collier  had  mentioned  "wasting"  various 
border  patrol  members  on  the  way  to  and  from  Ca,nada  if  need  be, 
if  we  ran  into  any  trouble. 

I  don't  believe  Walter  Bowe,  Sayyed,  or  Robert  Collier  would  have 
hesitated  one  instant  if  they  were  ever  in  a  predicament  in  which 
they  would  be  forced  to  use  these  weapons. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Thank  you  very  much. 

The  Chairman.  Detective  Wood,  was  it  ever  suggested  that  you 
use  false  names  or  aliases? 

Mr.  Wood.  Sir,  when  I  first  started  the  assignment  in  April,  I  sug- 
gested that  perhaps  I  change  my  name,  not  really  change  it,  but  just 
put  an  addition  on  to  it,  so  instead  of  using  the  name  Wood,  I  used 
the  name  Woodall.  This  is  the  name  I  used  and  traveled  under  during 
my  tenure  undercover. 

Mr.  Tuck.  Were  you  enrolled  as  a  member  of  the  organization  under 
your  own  name  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  No,  sir.  I  was  enrolled  or  I  became  a  member  under  the 
name  of  Woodall. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Ichord. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Detective  Wood,  these  incidents  about  which  you  have 
testified  occurred  after  the  Harlem  riots.  To  your  knowledge,  was  there 
any  connection  of  this  group  with  the  Epton  group  and  the  Progres- 
sive Labor  Movement  in  Harlem  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  Do  you  mean  between  the  Black  Liberation  Front  and  the 
PLM? 

Mr.  Ichord.  Yes. 

Mr.  Wood.  Well,  I  remember  Bob  Collier  mentioned  he  had  been  a 
member  of  RAM  at  one  time.  He  did  make  mention  that  he  thought 
the  PLM  handled  the  Harlem  riots  all  wrong.  He  said  that  Bill  Epton 
had  been  ineffectual.  He  said  that  actually  the  PLM  members,  rather 
than  sitting  back  and  wasting  a  very  good  opportunity  to  aid  in  this 
particular  unrest,  that  they  should  have  been  more  active.  However, 
they  simply  talked  and  talked  and  no  one  did  anything  as  far  as 
actually  firing  weapons  and  starting  a  general  uprising,  something 
along  revolutionary  lines.  He  was  quite  upset  with  Bill  Epton  as  to  his 
failure  to  materialize  these  particular  goals. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  he  was  a  participant  in 
the  Harlem  riots  ? 

Mr.  Wood.  In  all  honesty,  I  really  couldn't  say.  I  met  Bob  Collier 
in  July  and  he  made  no  mention  to  me  at  any  time  that  he  was  in- 
volved. If  I  am  not  mistaken,  I  think  Bob  Collier  may  have  been  in 
Cuba  during  the  time  of  the  riots. 

Mr.  IcHORD.  Thank  you,  Mr.  Chairman. 

The  Chairman.  All  right.  Proceed. 

Mr.  Wood.  Thank  you  very  much,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  The  committee  will  stand  in  recess  for  5  minutes. 

(A  brief  recess  was  taken.) 

The  Chairman.  The  subcommittee  will  come  to  order. 

Proceed. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Chairman,  at  the  time  of  the  testimony  received  by 
this  committee  on  October  25  and  26,  Mr.  Whitney  M.  Young,  Jr.,  of  the 

88-083  O — 68 — pt.  2 ^9 


1  048    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

National  Urban  League,  Inc.,  could  not  appear  in  person.  However, 
the  committee  has  received  a  statement  from  Mr.  Young  and  permis- 
sion is  requested  to  include  this  statement  in  the  record  following 
that  of  Mr.  Asa  Spaulding. 

The  Chairman.  Permission  is  granted  to  insert  that  statement  at  the 
point  indicated. 

Call  your  next  witness. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Romerstein,  will  you  take  the  chair,  please  ? 

TESTIMONY  OF  HERBERT  ROMERSTEIN— Resumed 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Eomerstein,  you  have  been  sworn  and  this  will 
be  considered  a  continuation  of  your  testimony. 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Smith.  Mr.  Romerstein,  yesterday  you  testified  as  to  what  your 
investigation  showed  as  to  the  agitation  or  activities  of  the  Communist 
Party,  Progressive  Labor,  and  other  organizations  respecting  the  pre- 
riot  and  the  riot  situation  in  Harlem  in  1964. 1  will  ask  you  about  the 
postriot  situation.  Did  your  investigation  indicate  a  continuing  effort 
on  the  part  of  the  Communist  Party  and  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment after  the  riot  and,  if  so,  how  long  did  this  last?  And  what  are 
the  activities  of  these  two  groups  to  the  present  date? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir.  The  activities  continued  after  the  riot  and 
continue  to  the  present  date.  If  I  might,  sir 

The  Chairman.  By  PLM? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  By  PLM  and  the  Communist  Party,  sir. 

If  I  might  go  back  a  little  bit  to  some  of  the  discussion  yesterday 
and  tie  it  in.  The  Communist  Party,  as  well  as  the  Progressive  Labor, 
issued  extremely  inflammatory  publications  during  the  riot  period  in 
1964. 

This  is  a  front  page  photostat  of  a  front  page  of  The  Worker^  the 
Communist  Party's  biweekly  newspaper,  where  the  main  headline 
read:  "Murphy's  Gestapo  Cops  Occupy  Harlem,  Beat  and  Kill  in 
Hysterical  Rage."  The  picture  on  the  front  page  is  of  Jesse  Gray,  who 
is  wearing  a  bandage  on  his  face  and  has  said  he  had  an  altercation 
with  the  police. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  What  date  is  that  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  The  issue  of  July  21, 1964. 

The  Chairman.  This  was  after  the  riot  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Well,  it  was  actually  issued  during  the  ^iot.  That 
would  have  been  a  midweek  edition.  It  would  have  been  out  Tuesday 
of  that  week,  which  is  the  21st.  The  riot  continued  until  almost  the 
next  weekend.  It  was  during  the  riot  that  it  was  distributed. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  16"  appears  on  p. 
1049.) 

Mr.  Romerstein.  To  go  back  to  the  question  that  Governor  Tuck 
raised  yesterday  concerning  the  relationship  between  the  various 
groups,  sir,  we  find  two  parallel  developments.  We  have  the  Pro- 
gressive Labor  people  who  are  a  splinter  Communist  Party  group, 
many  of  tlie  leaders  having  come  out  of  the  Communist  Party  itself, 
setting  up  their  own  Communist  organization  with  Chinese  Com- 
munist oriental  ion,  as  opposed  to  the  official  Communist  Party,  U.S.A., 
with  Moscow  orientation.  Each  one  sets  up  its  own  fronts. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1049 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   1  6 


Murphy's  Gestapo  Cops 
Occupy  Harlem,  Beat  and 
Kill  in  Hysterical  Rage 


I  he 

yjsmm 


By  T.  R.  BASSETT  uid    MIKE  DAVIDOW 
RARI^M  to  as  acqied  eui^ 

E^ery  30-30  feet  onf  &e*«  frroups  of  «t««nin9  hoik  of  whom  w«ri'  not  involved  i 
The   rwidents  of   Harlem,   the  overwhe! -hHmeTed  |«)l(re.  with  bulfrint-  arms 

C(  the  KKlctenU  uf  itm^ider.  *ii. 

ttMted   nol   bke   Amrrlcsn   ciii- 

temtoi}.     Thu     wm>     brutal  ii>      l' 
-  «hown      in      the      indite 


ihtK 


by 


lh«  police  on  SaturtUy  nlsnt  jnd 
uuuidc  Ihi  luiwnl  bocnc  it  Ihi? 
bigbt  Of  tbc  servvM. 

Polic«  CuOUT^iwiODcr  Mi<-tia(-l 
J.  Uurp^iy  has  appolra  f'>r 
"calm"  but.  as  Jama  r«nncT. 
naiimaj    diivrtu;    o(   CORK    and 


pointed 


fablislt^d  twie«  we«kly,  Tuesday  and  Sunday 

?«i  KXIX— No.  2W  -C       "  Joiy  21.   1914     Z^r^^^ 


acntmnatrl)  baaic 

iJiamcful    otatUi 


Tti»rrm  Ii*s  nol  aUri»  thr 
ntAt^y  M  itw  bJoodj'  wvdtcnd, 
tMii  :)••  «vm  gnratar  rliinpii  »• 


'  '1 

P 

r 

PIPP^V,..       ,^ 

■l^^1 

M 

i 

«««i 

9 

1 

1 

H 

nswt  ':•  *r  .. 

"  ■>-'"*  '•">■  •" 

Ui     Mt.i  ■«> 

t'<r-^vr■Tu■>^    CAl^n. 

Hit 


T^r  hri 


hiPiic  uf  u  :3-.- 


I  JsmM  Powtli  **bt>  wa*   4 

luti  U)  fufnmcr  Mh(>ol.  by  l.tC^ 
tniarl  Th<>ma«  R  Cllll(an.  • 
rariai  cop,  (rt  wll  thf  aec-jmui.* 
tlon  (rf-yp*"  "*  WKplnftvc  rw*t" 
mCsl  unaitiit  a  rvwrupi  and  -iv-.r 
btarlnc  0ntic*  ton*  in  Har!*iT» 
Thl<  p"lnt  »■»>  madr  rm!>t..^ 
li.  allv  ;it  a  ntws  conlercmr  !.^' 

Hidtfbrand     pr«»Kl«n(     <•( 


M« 


N\AC*P 

Htldcbranii  vtalrd  Ihat  "thi- 
vv4enr*>  dtd  m>t  bcetn  lad  ni|hl  . 
aid  irtrr>'»ed  thi*!  11  "»  t**»  «"«• 
pt.wtim  of  fommuniiy  Miwnt- 
n.fnl    rooird    In    Uck    of  rwpis ' 

j^oc  Gray,  Harlem  rent  utrikr 
M-Nder.  \\Vi  (ace  bruu«d  and  vt-vA- 
\yn  from  a  beatin«  by  police  u»» 


pntnt#d  lo  'he  hundreds  i. 


Murphy's  Gestapo  Cops 


(Oaoltosad  rn«  »•««  II 


He  called  for  i 

■nam    Gflll. 


of  Ueu. 


btark  people  of  Harten  Bcrc(iUi( 
tAWitrds  tha  dlffotry  %■«  all  want". 
Hr  blJdlMl  tbr  police  Defiart* 
Bwni   for  "tacUckl  errors." 

Number  one,  be  uid  wax  (h« 
'waiter  lechntquc".  whkti  is  to 
beat  every  TM»e  ta  rtjht  Thi. 
u  no  accidenl  ll  1»  dona  und^r 
tnrtrucliunj  by  the  police  c»-.ti- 
mi>->it(nfr  tn  beai  all  bUck  pe^k- 
pie."    Yuurjc    declared. 

Ted  Vel«.  a  Puerto  RicSn 
«aid  UMt  Ihrar  Puvrto  Ibcan* 
b«d  been  killed  hy  .poUre  lo  ihc 
put  Uirar  morUhi. 

arr  oi'cupiad  by  Murphv'i 
1  po4ire  wfao  mtend  to  rr- 
«)Mii  in  UarJem  votil  we  vtop 
telkinc  aboui  jt  and  b<«in  tr>  lu 
declared 
forttfed      applause      sr«eted 


CaauiM 


He  placad  ihc  rnpucttlblHti 
ro(  xtki  disl.irl.ani.e-  m.  ih« 
Police  Ocpartmaot  H«  obirrved 
thai  i(  tlier«  had  been  no  thoot- 
in(  (ft  the  ^well  boy  there 
would  have  bcm  no  rajjy  with 
i:.   en-iuinf   ira^u   coiu«()uenc«a. 

Othu  apvahcn  included  l>aiah 
Hoouuon.  pres*dent  of  the  Uar- 
Icni  Parents  Commlllee  and  Ed- 
wajd  Mill!  Davu.  C«rverll« 
^kon^m    a/id    Harlan    aiMat 

The  moud  as  cxprcucd  by  the 
prots,!  mwtinc  and  by  the  maa 
in  tJ*e  street  in  Harlem  has  and* 
one  thwi<   uonitslakably  ctattr: 

■nu^  da>  has  pw««d  when  bru- 
klll  N«gro«a  and 


Thr    da>    nta    p^^ 

P'Hice     Dapwtmani 
ing  '   lueir  can   wh 


Maym-  Wacoar  and  MM  Cit/ 
«l%scll  have  It  «fibln  *elr 
power  to  restore  "calm."  m  Vbr- 
mar.    Bayard   Buatln    a^   ettiar 


VeW    when    he    aaid.     'Wr    art- 

meetimi     the  BXayor  should   ra- 

••ainst  the  pottcv  twvialily  of  i^^r 

turt,    ,fl   the  mrat   iflane  ■ 

F>U(icc   Deitanmant  "' 

He  deimanded  "suipenslon  and 

He  caltrrt  for  removal  of  Com- 

arre«l   for   mgrder-  o(  U.  GUJi- 

miscuiner  Murphy   and   all   ai>tr« 

Ran 

of    Mayur   Watmar.   and    for   die- 

He  stremed  the  tune  has  coma 

parMi     of     the    hvlmcied     polic* 

lor  «   Civilian    llevte«'    B'.ard 

aciuad 

The    alwniative    mil    br    wen 

Pc«y  Swtton  mM»e  a  plea  for 

(nur*-    explosive    outbraak*    with 

uniiv      and      diaripJine.      -What 

each  act  of  unpunuhed  brutality 

army   c\-cr   won   a   ba^le   unlvu 

*'>    '*''^'' 

1050    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

So  we  don't  have  an  interlocking  relationship  between  the  two  net- 
works, but  we  have  a  parallel  relationship.  However,  since  many  of 
the  leaders  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  now  Progressive  Labor 
Party,  such  as  Milton  Rosen  and  William  Epton,  were  former  mem- 
bers of  and  officials  of  the  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  they  received 
their  training  in  tactics  in  the  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.  We  find  a 
similar  pattern  of  activity  in  their  new  roles  as  leaders  of  the  Chinese- 
oriented  Communist  groups. 

Sometimes,  however,  the  Chinese-oriented  groups  are  much  more 
militant,  much  more  outspoken  in  their  explanations  of  what  they 
intend  to  do.  Basically  the  operations  are  the  same.  It  is  just  that  the 
Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  being  somewhat  more  under  the  gun,  so  to 
speak,  having  gone  through  a  series  of  trials  for  their  activities,  the 
Smith  Act  trials,  they  are  a  little  more  careful  in  their  phraseology 
and  more  careful  in  their  operations  in  an  attempt  to  avoid  prosecu- 
tion. The  Progressive  Labor  Movement  has  been  much  more  flam- 
boyant. 

The  tenants  group  operation  goes  back  many  years.  This  is  a  copy 
of  the  internal  magazine  of  the  Communist  Party  in  1947  called 
Contact^  and  issued  by  the  National  Organization  and  Education 
Commissions,  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  which  described  at  that  time 
in  1947  in  an  article  by  John  Lavin,  who  was  Harlem  organizational 
secretary  of  the  Communist  Party,  the  setting  up  of  an  organiza- 
tion called  the  United  Harlem  Tenants  and  Consumers  Organization, 
which  was  designed  for  agitation  in  those  days  around  the  consumer 
and  tenants  issues. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  17"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

Mr.  RoMEESTEiN.  The  Worker  of  8/15/1948  printed  a  front  page 
picture  of  pickets  of  another  consumer  organization  picketing  against 
high  food  prices.  So  this  was  an  area  of  agitation  in  those  days ;  and 
of  course  the  agitation  continues  to  date,  both  on  the  part  of  the  official 
Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  and  the  Chinese-oriented  counterpart,  the 
Progressive  Labor  Party. 

As  I  indicated  before,  the  agitation  does  continue  to  this  day.  The 
Conmiunist  Party,  U.S.A.,  for  example,  this  past  summer  issued  this 
leaflet  entitled  "End  Police  Riots  and  Bloodshed  on  New  York  City 
Streets,"  the  indication  bein^  of  course  that  the  riots  are  police  orga- 
nized. It  is  not  anybody  fighting  with  the  police  or  trying  to  burn  down 
buildings.  It  is  the  police  going  out  and  indiscriminately  attacking  the 
community,  according  to  the  Communists. 

Here  is  a  description  of  the  alleged  situation  in  the  New  York  and 
New  Jersey  area.  It  says  "Ne^ro  cabbie  beaten  by  police.  Guardsmen 
wreck  ghetto  homes."  No  indication  of  a  riot  going  on  and  that  the 
reason  why  guardsmen  were  going  into  homes  was  to  root  out  snipers. 

Reg-ardins:  New  York,  it  savs,  "Puerto  Rican  shot  dead — Tactical 


-'to' 


say 


cops  club  Puerto  Ricans,"  No  indication  that  a  real  riot  was  going  on 
and  that  only  the  timely  intervention  of  the  tactical  police  force  and 
other  factors  were  able  to  prevent  this  riot  from  l>ecoming  one  of  our 
major  riots. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  18"  follows:) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1051 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   18 


nC^ 


so>^J- 


^a 


NOW 


\cs 


NOW' 


End  Police  Riots  and  Bloodslied 

on  Now  Yorle  City  Streets 


What  happened  in  Newark  and  Detroit  can 
and  will  happen  here  unless  emergency 
measures  are  taken  at  once.      East  Harlem 
is  the  first  warning.      There  is  no  tinne  to 
lose. 

Rotten  slum  conditions,    no  jobs,    police 
brutality  are  the  root  cause  of  the  ghetto 
rebellions  - 

New  Jersey  -   Negro  cabbie  beaten  by 
police.     Guardsmen 
wreck  ghetto  homes. 

New  York  -       Puerto  Rican  shot  dead  - 
Tactical  cops  club  Puerto 
Ricans;   fling  racist  insults 
that  incite  community. 


New  York  is  being  torn  apart  by  a  too  little, 
too  late  policy  of  the  City  Administration 
and  by  official  police  brutality. 


The  only  way  to  prevent  bloodshed  is  to  stop 
police  brutality  and  take  effective  steps  to 
provide  decent  jobs,    schools  and  housing 
for  the  ghetto  poor. 


The  Mayor  says  he  is  doing  all  he  can       But 
if  New  York  were  hit  by  a  tornado,    epidemic 
or  earthquake,    we  would  get  the  money  for 
the  emergency.      The  emergency  is  here 
This  city  must   ACT    NOW! 


We  demand   that  the  Mayor  call  a  special  meeting  of  the  City  Council 
and  take  immediate  steps  to; 

•  Abolish  the  anti-labor,    racist  Tactical  Police  Force. 

•  Stop  all  police  brutality.      As  a  first  step,    disarm  all  oH-duty  police. 
Remove  white  police  from  Black  and  Puerto  Rican  neighborhoods. 

•  Provide  jobs  and  job  training  at  once  for  all  unemployed  at  union  pay 
rates.      Start  a  crash  program  of  renovations  and  build  low  rent 
housing,    schools  and  hospitals. 

•  Demand  a  return  of  Federal  tax  money.  Billions  are  spent  for  an 
immoral  war  in  Vietnam.  New  Yorkers  pay  $15  billion  each  year 
in  Federal  taxes:    only  $1  billion  comes  back  for  city  use. 

WE  NEED  FEDERAL  FUNDS,  NOT  FEDERAL  TROOPS! 


People  of  New  York!      We  who  are  white  bear  a 

speci.il  responsibility  in  the  present  crisis. 
Hy  allowing  the  oppression  of  the  Negro  and 
Puerto  Rican  people  we  have  only  hurt  our- 
selves.     We  have  let  Big  Business,    the 
banks  and  real  estate  interests  reap  huge 
profits  from  slum  housing  and  use  the 
ghetto  unemployed  to  lower  wages  for  all 
workers 


The  trade  union  inovemenl.    in  the  interests 
of  all  the  working  people  of  New   York,    must 
end  discrimination  in  membership,    hiring 
and  job  upgrading.      New  York  labor  has  the 
power  to  compel  the  Adnninistration  to  act 
in  the  present  crisis. 

Our  tax  money  now  used  to  kill  innocent 
people  in  Vietnam  can  provide  jobs  and 
build  cities  and  homes  fit  to  live  in. 


WRITE  OR  WIRE  THE  MAYOR  AND  CITY  COUNCIL  TO  TAKE  IMMEDIATE  ACTION  AND  HOLD  PUBLIC  HEARINGS! 


Isiued  h>;      COMMUNIST   PARTY   OF   NEW   YORK    STATE.    33  Union  Squ«ie  Weit.  New  Yoik,  NY,  10003 


1  052    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  This  is  a  book  issued  by  James  Jackson,  who  is  one 
of  the  top  leaders  in  the  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  entitled  U.S. 
Negroes  in  Battle:  From  Little  Roch  to  Watts,  in  which  he  analyzes 
a  number  of  the  riots  which  have  taken  place,  including  the  riot  in 
New  York  in  1964.  Many  of  these  chapters  in  the  book  are  articles 
he  wrote  at  the  time  of  the  incident. 

Interestingly  enough,  the  book  was  published  by  Progress  Pub- 
lishers in  Moscow  in  the  year  1967.  Progress  Publishers  is  an  official 
Soviet  publishing  house  which  publishes  in  foreign  languages,  in  this 
case  English,  and  was  formerly  called  the  Foreign  Languages  Pub- 
lishing House  in  Moscow. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  19"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

Mr.  Tuck.  Irrespective  of  whether  or  not  they  have  an  interlocking 
directorship,  they  do  have  a  common  allegiance.  Most  of  them  are  or- 
ganized through  agencies  of  the  Communist  Party;  is  that  correct? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir,  most  of  the  fronts  do  have  interlocking 
directorates  with  their  parent  body,  the  Communist  Party.  They  are 
organized  to  carry  out  the  work  of  the  Communist  Party.  We  have  two 
separate  Communist  parties  in  existence,  the  official  Communist  Party 
and  the  Progressive  Labor  Party.  They  are  rivals  to  some  extent.  There 
is  no  interlocking  between  their  parallel  organizational  structure,  but 
there  is  an  interlocking  between  each  party  itself  and  its  fronts. 

Now  we  have  developed  information  about  interlocking  between  the 
two  Communist  parties  and  various  black  nationalists  and  black 
power  groups.  But  the  two  parties  themselves  do  not  interlock. 

The  statement  that  was  read  by  Mr.  Mehaffey  yesterday  was  ex- 
tremely interesting.  The  Communist  Party  is  attempting  to  gain  new 
inroads  into  the  black  power  movement.  They  have  discovered  that 
there  is  a  certain  amount  of  pro-Peking  orientation  in  the  black 
power  movement  and  they  would  like  to  win  these  people  back  to 
Moscow.  The  Communist  Party,  U.S.A.,  has  now  openly  come  out  in 
favor  of  violence  in  cities,  has  now  openly  come  out  in  favor  of  rioting, 
whereas  usually  the  Communist  Party  is  more  circumspect  and  more 
careful  how  they  phrase  things.  The  latest  directive  says  that  people 
have  a  right  to  riot  in  the  cities. 

Progressive  Labor  continued  its  agitational  activity  after  the  Har- 
lem riot.  This  is  an  issue  of  Challenge,  April  27,  1965,  that  was 
referred  to  in  the  testimony  of  Mr.  Luce  that  was  put  in  the  record 
yesterday.  It  contains  a  picture  showing  the  headquarters  of  the  Har- 
lem Defense  Council,  which  was  simultaneously  the  headquarters  of 
the  Harlem  Progressive  Labor  Club  with  a  sign  "Self  Defence," 
indicating  they  had  a  karate  training  school  at  their  headquarters. 
The  sign,  "KETSUGO  DO  JO  H.D.C."  indicates  this  is  a  karate  train- 
ing school  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  20"  follows:) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1053 


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1  054    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Then,  too,  another  shooting  incident  took  place  in 
Brooklyn  which  did  not  result  in  a  riot.  Progressive  Labor  tried  once 
again  to  create  that  climate  of  opinion.  They  put  out  a  "Wanted  for 
Murder"  poster,  "Wanted  for  Murder,  Liebowitz,  the  Cop."  He  had 
shot  a  man  who  was  using  a  knife  in  a  street  altercation. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  21."  See  p.  1055.) 

Mr.  RoMERSTEnsr.  One  factor  that  we  found  and  that  we  constantly 
find  in  much  of  this  agitation  is  sometimes  very  subtle  but  sometimes 
very  flagrant  falsehoods,  deliberate  falsehoods,  attempting  to  incite 
a  riot  situation.  For  example.  Progressive  Labor  knew  the  truth — 
because  they  had  sent  Detective  Hart  to  attend  a  meeting  of  the  Mal- 
colm X  organization,  and  Detective  Hart  had  reported  back  to  them 
that  Malcolm  X  had  stated  that  he  had  information  that  there  was  a 
plot  against  his  life  on  the  part  of  certain  members  of  the  Black 
Muslim  organization  which  he  had  broken  away  from. 

Nevertheless,  in  the  spring  of  1967  Progressive  Labor  issued  a  leaf- 
let entitled  "Democratic  Circus  Comes  to  Harlem,"  in  which  they  state, 
"Malcolm  was  gunned  down  by  bullets  paid  for  by  the  C.I.A." 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  22."  See  pp.  1056, 
1057.) 

Mr.  Romerstein.  At  a  later  date  we  find  Stokely  Carmichael  telling 
an  audience  that  Malcolm  X  was  shot  by  white  Cuban  counterrevolu- 
tionaries in  the  payroll  of  the  CLA.. 

The  fact  is  that  the  men  who  assassinated  him  were  identified  as 
members  of  the  Black  Muslim  organization  and  have  been  tried  and 
convicted  of  murder.  The  case  is  now  on  appeal. 

We  had  one  major  altercation  in  the  New  York  area  this  past  sum- 
mer. This  was  the  Puerto  Rican  riot  situation  in  East  Harlem.  To  a 
great  extent,  for  a  number  of  reasons,  we  have  not  had  major  disturb- 
ances in  the  New  York  area.  This  was  a  relatively  minor  disturbance 
compared  to  some  of  the  riots  which  have  taken  place  in  other  cities. 

I  believe  that  one  of  the  factors  entering  into  the  relative  tranquility 
of  New  York  was  the  fact  that  out  of  16  summer  weekends,  it  rained  14 
of  them.  In  addition — and  I  believe  that  the  New  York  City  Police 
Department  deser\^es  a  good  deal  of  credit  for  this — the  police  depart- 
ment has  developed  a  considerable  amount  of  intelligence  informa- 
tion concerning  the  people  who  might  attempt  to  trigger  off  a  riot. 
They  have  developed  this  information  over  a  period  of  years,  so  that 
they  are  very  close  to  the  situation  and  they  know  what  the  problems 
will  be. 

In  addition,  the  community  relations  operations  of  the  New 
York  City  Police  Department  have  been  developed  to  a  very 
great  extent.  They  are  able  to  go  to  community  leaders,  phone  commu- 
nity leaders  when  problems  are  developing,  in  order  to  quiet  down  a 
difficult  situation.  These  I  think  are  basically  the  factors,  in  addition  to 
the  fact  that  the  tactical  police  force,  which  is  a  highly  mobile,  highly 
trained  unit,  is  immediately  moved  in  in  any  crisis  situation  and  veiy 
often,  by  the  use  of  the  minimum  force  necessary  to  cope  with  the 
immediate  situation,  is  able  to  prevent  it  from  becoming  a  major  prob- 
lem. 

However,  this  relatively  minor  skirmish  in  Harlem  was  immediately 
picked  up  by  the  columnists.  And  The  Worker  of  July  30,  1967,  head- 
lines, "Cops'  Murderous  Attack  Told  by  Harlem  Witness." 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  23."  See  p.  1058.  Ex- 
hibits Nos.  21, 22,  and  23  follow :) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1055 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  2  1 

WANTED 

FOR 
MURDER 


LIEBOWITZ,THE  COP 

Ptl.  Sheldon   Liebotcitg   of  the    Grand  Ave.   Precinct, 
teho  murdered  Nelion  Erby,   July  15,  1965 
—  the  Jirtt  anniversary  oj  the  murder   of  Jamet    Powell,    July  16,    1964 


Harlem  Defense  Council 
107  West  116  St.  Harlem,  U.S.A 


1056    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   22 


(The  following  is  issued  by  the  Harlem 
branch  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party, 
336  Lenox  Avenue,  FI  8-2254.  It  will  ap- 
pear in  the  April  issue  of  CHALLENGE. 
Call  the  above  niunber  or  924-8848  for 
the  newstand  nearest  you  that  carries 
CHALLENGE.) 

The  people  of  Harlem  and  the  Black 
people  in  general  correctly  interpreted 
the  denial  of  Adam  Powell's  seat  as  an- 
other racist  act  on  the  part  of  the  Congress. 
They  also  correctly  saw  this  racist  act  as 
another  open  attack  on  the  Black  people— 
but  this  is  exactly  what  the  U.S.  govern- 
ment wanted  them  to  know  and  to  react  to. 

In  1963  the  government  and  its  "uncle 
torn"  lackeys  pulled  off  the  "march  on 
Washington' '  to  change  the  struggle  of  the 
Black  people  for  their  liberation  to  a 
meaningless  "march"  that  sapped- up  a 
lot  of  the  energy  of  the  people.  Now,  in 
1967  the  government,  its  lackeys  and  some 
mis-guided  civil  rights  workers  plan  to 
pull-off  a  "support  Pqwell"  campaign, 
whose  purpose  will  be  to  again  divert  the 
struggle  away  from  national  liberation  to 
one  of  supporting  a  man  whose  role  has 
consistently  been  that  of  collaborator  with 
U.S.  imperialism. 

It  was  another  Powell  that  the  people 
of  Harlem  rallied  around  in  1963— his 
name  was  James  and  he  was  16  years  old 
and  he  was  murdered  by  Thomas  Gilligan, 
a  New  York  cop. 

The  people  rightfully  protested  and 
demonstrated  their  support  for  young 
Jimmy.  And  as  a  result,  many  were  shot 
down  and  brutally  attacked  by  the  police 
for  their  support.  We  didn't  hear  one  word 
from  the  other  Powell  (Adam),  and  very 
little   from   the   "civil   rights   leaders." 


Every  day  in  the  United  States,  both 
north  and  south.  Black  people  are  being 
murdered  by  the  agents  of  the  U.S.  gov- 
ernment—either in  blue  uniforms  of  the 
police,  hiding  under  white  sheets  or  by 
"Justice"  lynchings  in  the  courts  of  this 
country.  Every  day  our  Black  youth  are 
being  dragged  from  our  homes  to  go  into 
the  U.S.  army  to  kill  and  be  killed  in 
foreign  wars  (against  other  colored  peo- 
ples), especially  in  Vietnam.  Where  is 
the  mass  protest  on  the  part  of  these  so- 
called  leaders?" 

*  Medgar    Evers   was    shot   to   death'. 

*  Malcolm  X  was  shot  to  death  right 
here  in  New  York'. 

*  Wharlest  Jackson  was  just  blown  to 
bits  in  Natchez,  Miss.'. 

These  are  only  three  of  countless 
thousands.  Where  were  the  mass  protest 
on  the  part  of  the  so-called  "leaders"? 
There  were  none,  except  for  cynical  state- 
ments to  the  press.  We  must  therefore  ask. 
Why? 

The  answer  is  clear.  Powell  has  worked 
within  this  corrupt  system  and  gotten  rich 
olt  01  It.  At  the  same  time  the  condition 
of  the  vast  majority  of  the  Black  people 
has  gotten  worse.  Powell  has  been  as 
corrupt  as  those  thieves  who  denied  him 
his  seat.  Therefore  it  is  safe  to  come 
all  out  in  his  support,-  because  it  is  safe 
to  defend  crooks  and  gangsters  rather 
than  genuine  militants. 

Malcolm  X  was  a  potential  revolu- 
tionary and  that  makes  a  lot  of  difference '. 
No  great  rallies,  money  collections,  and 
big  speeches  by  the  so-called  civil  rights 
"leaders,"  when  Malcolm  was  gunned 
down  by  bullets  paid  for  by  the  C.I. A. 
Only  empty  statements '. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1057 


RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  22 — Continued 


THE  FAKE  MEREDITH  CAMPAIGN 

The  vast  majority  of  the  so-called 
"leaders"  read  the  signs  correctly  that 
the  people  knew  tliat  Congress  is  racist 
and  acted  that  way.  They  therefore  knew 
that  anyone  who  would  run  for  Powell's 
seat  in  Congress  would  be  labeled  an 
"uncle  torn"  by  the  Black  people.  So, 
despite  the  fact  that  any  one  of  them  would 
give  their  right  arm  for  Powell's  seat  they 
had  to  "bide  their  time"  and  wait  for  a 
better  opportunity.  James  Meredith,  who 
first  came  Into  Harlem  as  a  stooge  for 
Robert  Kennedy,  could  not  resist  the  money 
that  was  dangled  in  front  of  him;  he  first 
accepted  with  great  fanfare,  and  then  de- 
clined with  an  equal  amount  of  fanfare.  The 
New  York  Times  of  March  13th,  in  an 
interview  that  covered  almost  three- 
quarters  of  a  full  page,  attempted  to  make 
Meredith  look  and  sound  like  a  complete 
idiot,  so  obviously  they  were  not  going 
all-out  to  support  him.  Under  pressure 
from  the  so-called  "civil  rights  leaders"  . 
he  withdrew  and  left  the  field  open  to 
Powell.  They  wanted  to  save  him  for  a 
better  time.  The  government  has  suc- 
ceeded in  doing  just  what  it  wanted  to  do. 
They  were  successful  in  making  Powell 
and  his  seat  in  the  house  of  Representa- 
.  tives  the  major  issue  and  news  item  in  the 
Black  communities . . .  while  Black  youth 
are  being  drafted  for  Vietnam . . .  while 
Black  people  are  being  murdered  in  this 
coxintry  and  the  investigations  of  all  of  the 
other  thieves  in  Washington  become  back 
page  news.  ^ 

Adam  Powell  becomes  the  1967  Torsion 
of  the  "March  on  Washington." 

WHAT  IS  A  LEADER? 
If  these  "  leaders' '  want  the  Black  people 
to  rally  around  Powell  then  why  doesn't 
he  have  a  program  for  the  people  to  identify 
with,  rather  than  the  silly  slogan,  "Keep 
the  faith,  baby"?  If  Powell  is  a  "leader," 
let's  put  him  to  the  test.  Let  him  publicly 
denounce  the  racist  and  fascist  war  against 
the  Vietnamese  people.  Let  him  tell  Black 
youth  not  to  go  into  the  U.S.  army.  Let 


him  come  out  in  defense  of  the  "Harlem 
Six,  "framed-up  and  jailed  these  last  three 
years.  Let  him  investigate,  or  protest  the 
countless  acts  of  brutality  and  murder 
that  occur  in  the  32nd  precinct  (three 
blocks  from  his  church).  Let  him  offer 
bills  to  jail  the  many  slumlords  in  his  18th 
Congressional  District.  Yes,  let  him  de- 
fend the  interest  of  the  Black  people.  This 
is  the  only  criterion  to  judge '. 

To  say  that  we  must  defend  him  because 
he  is  "Black,"  and  that  we  must  unite 
behind  him  because  the  "man"  is  out  to 
get  him,  is  a  weak  argument.  Should 
we  defend  a  Black  dope  pusher  that  poisons 
our  children  because  he  is  Black  and 
because  the  "man"  is  "out  to  get  him"? 
Should  we  defend  a  stick-up  killer— who 
robs  us— because  he  is  Black  and  the 
"man"  is  out  to  get  him?  Should  we  de- 
fend one  of  "our  own"  by  saying,  "why 
did  they  pick  on  him,  he  is  just  as  crooked 
as  the  rest  of  them"?  Yes,  we  always 
agree  that  the  biggest  crooks  and  gang- 
sters in  this  country  sit  in  high  offices 
in  Washington.  • 

But  the  point  is:  They  ALL  should  be 
in  jaill  -  \        ■"  ''  . 

NATIONAL  LIBERATION    "     .' '    . 

But  we,  Black  people  fighting  for  our 
national  liberation,  have  only  one  yard- 
stick to  judge  those  that  we  will  accept 
as  our  "leaders"  and  that  is  whether  or 
not  they  have  devoted  their  lives  in  the 
interest  of  our  liberation,  and  have  de- 
veloped programs  and  organizations  to- 
wards that  end. 

So  there  are  important  lessons  to  be 
learned  from  this  circus  that  is  taking 
place.  We  must  learn  to  choose  our  own 
leaders  from  among  the  ranks  of  the  peo- 
ple that  will  be  beholden  only  to  us— not 
to  the  Democratic  or  Republican  parties. 
We  must  choose  militant  revolutionaries 
who  will  not  sell  themselves  to  U.S.  im- 
perialism and  who  have  only  one  thought, 
goal  and  desire— and  that  is  for  the 
national  liberation  of  the  Afro-American 
peoples  of  the  United  States. 


ISSUED  BY  THE  HARLEM  BRANCH  OF  THE  PROGRESSIVE  LABOR  PARTY 
336  LENOX  AVENUE  -  Fl  8-2254 


1058    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   23 


Page  12 


THE   WORKER,   SUXDAY,    JULYJ01D87 


Cops'  Murderous  Attack 
Told  by  Harlem  Witness 


By  TIM  WUEfcttR 

AJVGEL  SIERRA  v  ■«.-;  av.  ..>,<■- 
witness  )o  the  i-vi-til,.s  !na;  i'j:- 
iowt'ft  tiv?  mur<!i-i  uT  25-.var- 
old  Ri.-nal(io  Iv.'j'Jrifii!".'  ii'.  t^a^' 
Harlem   Suntio; 

Sierra,  a  rcsi 
borhood     popui>,, ,  ■ 
Spanish  Harlem,  Uj\a:  'IMi    V.  .ik- 
er   that   the   poi:cc,    alter    n.ivri, 
slain     Kodriguei^.     ;i''.   f 
people      dcmonsl-ra ! 
stret'l  against  Uk-  nii 
Puerto  Rican  yf^ifh. 

Sierra    \va^    staii'imR    at    Ktfith 

and    Third    Ave.     S;,-   ' -■" 

when   he  saw   a   crc  ' 
street   dcmon'itrr;tf/r' 
Third     Ave.      from 
•housing  project   v,hi  :  ■ 
was  sIkA. 

He  said,  "I  looked  iluwii  TiiiiU 
Ave.  and  coming  toward  me 
right  up  the  middle  r.f  •-■-  '■■■■•' 
was  a  crowd  of  2(>'< 
Puerto  Ritans.  They 
attention  to  the  Irallu .  iTe.'v 
were  mad.  They  shouted  agairtst 
the  police. 

"Then  1  saw  the  Tactical  Po- 
lice come  clrarging  up  from 
three  directions.  They  just 
charged  into  the  crowd.  Ttiey 
beat   people  over  the   head. 

"I  saw  them  knock  one  guy 
down  and  they  .tust  kept  boating 
him  i-nd  kicking  him.  They  were 
.shoutinjj  iiUhy  racist  nam«s  at 
the  man  as  he  lay  on  the 
ground. 

"The  people  were  ju.st  half  a 
block  away  watch iiig  the  cops 
beat  the  man  lying  on  the 
ground.  A  man  started  yellirui 
at  the  cops  to  stop  beating  thi' 
man,  but  the  cops  didn't  stop, 
and  more  cops  were  cliargmg 
dowii  the  street  toward  .the 
people.  .So  the  people  siarte.l 
pt<tii>i»  t!te  cops  wit*i  e\ory- 
tlnng  they  could  pick  up.  ix)t- 
tles.  bricks,  rocks  and  Kari>a«e 
can-s.  " 

The  police  retreated  under 
the  barrage  ol  flying  miisiles, 
rf>x;rouped  and  atiacKeri  a«aui, 
Sierra  said.  This  time  the  crow.i 
broke  and  ran. 


ne  .said,   "ran   in 

1   the  (■  Jp.s  -.vere 

.-I      foi'     ^rid     m 

>  jtinp: 

ran,. 

■quad 

..■    .-..devvalk 

,    were   Iry- 

,,o\^n   in    "he 


AN'OTUEK    ATT  V<  K 

Ins'ead  of  qii:-  ti).,;  'ne  i\-j,nr^ 
if  ai:yi  .',  thi.s  ve/ii"i'  di.per';al 
)f  t!ie  erov\d  sv  'nt.'  raiiipasini; 
i^.l'   •■   ^:. ■■!■:, ,i   •  !,■    ,1  i_.:r  to  Other 

■.OO'l 


the    fir.sl 


n'.rk  a!i  1  tireri  ot  being  treated 
Ilk.-    nirt    hy    the    rop-i." 

-lenti;. 

,    shot 
....    ,,.._   ,..:.,      ..   ,..L  J     . ....  .lurin? 

such  a  lime,  generally  place 
their  hands  agaiii.5l  buildings 
and  wait  for  the  poUee  to  ap- 
proach. 

He  said.  "I  put  my  hands 
against  a  buiHiiiK  when  the  po- 
lice came  up.  but  one  fat  cop 
gave  me  a  push  and  sa^id.  "Got 
the  hell  but  of  here.  Got  mov- 
ing.' ■■ 

RISING  TERROR 

Mayor  Lindsay  has  painted  a 
picture  of  restrained  police,   but 


resident.'^  of  the  neighborhood 
report  a  sharp  increase  in  po- 
lice harassment,  arrests,  racist 
insult.?,  and  ph.vsical  attack. 
This  attack  is  being  carried  out 
on  a  whole.scale  basts  in  all  sec- 
tors of  East  Harlem. 

Manuel  Dones.  1809  Lexing- 
ton Ave.  told  mo: 

"Police  will  chase  anybody 
!iii  matter  what  you  are  doing. 
1  IK  V  a: -_'  suspicious  of  every- 
;j')!iy.  Last  night  I  was  stand- 
ing v'.at.ching  a  tire  that  broke 
out  on  the  corner.  The  cops 
came  toward  me  in  a  car.  They 
were  v.earing  helmets  and  shoot- 
ing their  guns  out  the  windows. 
I  turned  around  and  started 
running  end  they  chased  after 
nic  down  the  street.  They  came 
up  On  the  sidewalk  and  almost 
ran  mc  down,  but  I  ran  behind 
a  fire  hydrant  and  jumped  down 
an  alley." 

Another  youth,  Eric  Sanjurjo, 
told  The  Worker  he  and  five 
friends  were  picked  up  by  tJie 
police  as  they  sat  talking  in  a 
park  at  115th  St.  and  Third  Ave. 

"They  came  up  and  told  us 
to  get  moving,"  Sanjurjo  said. 
"We  said  this  was  the  park  we 
always  come  to.  They  said,  'This 
park  is  private  property.'  When 
we  Ined  to  reaion  with  them 
they  .<aid,  "You  boys  have  mari- 
juana.' They  put  handcuffs  on 
us  and  took  us  to  the  station. 
But  we  didii";  have  marijuana 
They  were  lying.  They  just 
wanted  to  arrest  u.h."_ 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 059 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Progressive  Labor,  in  the  latest  issue  of  their  news- 
paper Challenge,  the  issue  of  October  196Y,  revealed  something  inter- 
esting. 

As  pointed  out,  Challenge  appears  both  in  English  and  Spanish. 
This  picture  and  caption  do  not  appear  in  the  English  section  of  Chal- 
lenge newspaper,  but  only  in  the  Spanish  section.  They  show  Dejesus, 
who  is  identified  as  a  Progressive  Labor  Party  member,  out  on  the 
Greets  during  the  demonstration,  allegedly  attempting  to  give  aid  to 
a  young  Puerto  Rican  who  was  shot  by  the  police.  The  caption  indi- 
cates that  it  was  impossible  for  them  to  advance  against  the  police 
at  this  point  because  of  the  shooting  that  was  going  on.  So  the  three 
people  you  see,  one  of  them  identmed  as  Felipe  Dejesus,  are  lying 
on  the  groimd  in  the  picture. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  24"  follows :) 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   24 

[Challenge,  October  1967,  p.  8] 


Felipe   Dejestis   ( al   eer.tro\    del   PLP,    trata  de    anxlllar  ur 
Joven  herldo   por    la   Folic  la  durante    la  Febellon  en  El   Ba- 
rrio,   pero   la  talacera  no  les   perrr.lte    avanzar  y  el   Joven 
mnere,    BOSOTPOS   «0   OLVIHAilOS;    HO   POIEVOS    OLV I  DAP. 

[Translation:  Felipe  Dejesus  (center),  of  PLP,  tries  to  aid  a  youth  wounded 
by  the  police  during  the  Rebellion  in  the  Quarter,  but  the  bullets  do  not 
permit  them  to  advance,  and  the  youth  dies.  WE  SHALL  NOT  FORGET; 
WE  CANNOT  FORGET] 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Another  person  out  on  the  streets  during  the  1967 
clashes  in  East  Harlem  was  Ted  Yelez,  whom  we  ran  across  during 
the  1964  riots  organizing  demonstrations  in  the  streets  and  making 
speeches  at  the  United  Nations  offices,  demanding  that  the  United 
Nations  intervene  in  the  situation  in  the  United  States. 

Mr.  Velez  is  one  about  whom  we  have  a  considerable  amount  of  in- 
formation. But  I  think  the  most  interesting  thing  at  the  moment  is: 
on  September  13,  1963,  he  was  present  in  the  hearing  room  of  this 
committee  during  the  hearings  on  the  illegal  traffic  to  Cuba  and  was 
one  of  those  that  had  to  be  forcibly  removed  from  the  hearing  room 
for  trying  to  organize  a  demonstration  during  the  hearing. 


1 060    SUBVERSIVE  IKFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

An  important  factor  in  preventing  the  riots  from  becoming  a  major 
altercation  was,  as  I  said  before,  the  community  relations  of  the  police 
department.  Spanish-speaking  Catholic  priests  in  the  area  were  con- 
tacted by  the  police  and  were  able  to  organize  a  parade  in  the  East 
Harlem  area  which  calmed  down  the  people;  the  priests  went  out 
among  the  people  and  calmed  them  down. 

The  Catholic  Standard  of  8/10/67  carries  a  story  about  Police  Com- 
missioner Howard  R.  Leary,  the  police  commissioner  of  New  York 
City,  giving  awards  to  a  number  of  Catholic  priests :  Monsignor  Robert 
J.  Fox,  coordinator  of  the  Spanish  Community  Action  in  the  New 
York  archdiocese ;  Fathers  Raymond  J.  Byrne  of  St.  Paul's  Church, 
Vincent  A.  Resta  of  Holy  Rosary  Church,  and  Patrick  J.  Carroll  of 
St.  Luke's  Church  in  the  Bronx  who  had  come  into  the  Harlem  area, 
and  many  of  them  worked  for  a  long  time  in  the  East  Harlem  area 
and  were  able  to  make  contact  with  the  people  and  prevent  the  riot 
from  becoming  any  more  serious  than  it  was. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  25"  follows :) 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   25 

[Catholic  Standard,  \\i^u%\  10,  1967] 


]3  Priests  Cited 
For  Helping 
To  Calm  Riots 


NEW  YORK  mC)  —  Four 
*  Catholic  priests  credited  with 
calming,  recent  disorders  |n 
the  Harlem  and  Bronx  sec- 
tions of  New  York  received 
Operation  Friends  Awards 
from  Police  Commissioner 
Howard  R.  Leary. 

The  awards  sponsored  by 
radio  station  WBNX  are 
given  monthly  to  a  police 
officer  and  civilian  who  have 
helped  promote  better  rela- 
tions between  the^  police  and 
the  community. 

The  honored  priests  are 
Msgr.  Robert  J.  Fox,  coordi- 


nator of  Spanish  Community 
Action  in  the  New  York  arch- 
diocese;  Fathers  Raymond  J. 
Byrne  of  St.  Paul's  Church, 
Vincent  A.  Resta  of  Holy 
Rosary  Church  and  Patrick 
J.  Carroll  of  St.  Luke's 
Church  in  the  Bronx. 

They  have  been  active  In 
•'Summer  In  The  City."  "a 
part  of  the  war  on  poverty 
program,  and  involved  in  a 
year  -  round  neighborhood 
community  action  program 
sponsored  by  the  New  York 
Institute  For  Human  De- 
velopment. 

During  recent  disorders  in 
Spanish  Harlem,  the  priests 
si>onsored  nightly  processions 
•which  brought  out  hundreds 
of  people  in  peaceful  demon- 
strations and  which  police 
said  "did  a  great  deal  to  calm 
the  neighborhood." 


SUBVERSIVE  INELUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  061 

Mr.  EoMERSTEiN.  One  thing  that  Detective  Wood  indicated  this 
morning  is  that  many  of  these  groups  are  dissatisfied  with  the  activities 
of  other  groups.  There  is  a  rivalry  going  on.  So,  when  the  people  from 
the  Revolutionary  Action  Movement  complained  that  Progressive 
Labor  did  not  do  enough,  what  they  mean  is,  "How  come  you  didn't 
burn  down  the  whole  city?  If  we  were  there  we  would  have  had  the 
ability  to  really  tear  the  place  apart;  you  only  had  the  small  riot 
going." 

Progressive  Labor  replies,  "Where  were  you  when  we  were  out  in 
1964  in  a  real  riot  and  you  were  not  doing  enough  to  help  us  at  that 
time?" 

One  of  the  most  militant  groups  we  have  run  across,  although  rela- 
tively small,  has  been  an  organization  which  has  created  many  prob- 
lems. 

(At  this  point  Mr.  Watson  entered  the  hearing  room.) 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  On  that  point  quite  often  we  hear  it  said  because 
they  are  a  small  group  they  are  not  dangerous.  Isn't  this  a  most  fal- 
lacious argument  to  be  advanced?  Doesn't  your  experience  indicate 
it  does  not  take  5,000  people,  but  only  10  or  15  terrorists  can  do  a  good 
job  ?  We  hear  that  there  are  only  150  people ;  this  is  really  meaningless. 

Mr.  EoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir;  a  relative  handful  of  people  who  are 
trained  and  prepared  to  commit  acts  of  violence  can  always  be  con- 
siderably more  dangerous  than  a  large  mob  that  has  no  direction  and 
that  can  be  controlled  by  the  police.  The  testimony  of  Detective  Wood 
this  morning  related  to  a  handful  of  people.  Had  their  plans  been 
carried  out  they  would  have  destroyed  the  Statue  of  Liberty  and  the 
Liberty  Bell  and  might  have  killed  quite  a  number  of  people  in  their 
bombing  of  these  shrines.  Now  they  are  a  relatively  small  group  of 
peoplCj  but  the  damage  that  they  can  inflict  can  be  a  great  deal. 

Durmg  a  riot  situation  the  relative  handful  of  people  can  be  snipers, 
can  be  the  throwers  of  Molotov  cocktails.  While  the  police  are  trying 
to  cope  with  a  large  number  of  people  on  the  streets,  this  handful  can 
do  a  considerable  amount  of  damage. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  I  am  glad  you  stated  that  because  that  needs  to  be 
reiterated  all  the  time.  You  always  hear,  particularly  if  they  are  on 
campus  or  elsewhere,  there  are  35  million  Democrats  or  32  million 
Republicans  or  50  Communists.  You  are  not  playing  a  numbers  game 
here,  because  200  revolutionaries  may  disrupt  a  city  of  7  million.  This 
needs  to  be  reiterated  time  and  time  again  because  people  pla^  a  num- 
bers game  and  think  because  there  are  only  a  few  it  makes  no  difference. 
What  we  have  developed  in  the  last  2  days  indicates  that  a  handful 
of  people  bent  on  destruction  have  the  capability  of  really  wreaking 
havoc. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  One  of  the  concepts  of  the  Communist 
organization  is  the  concept  of  the  lever.  They  actually  discuss  this  in 
their  own  circles.  A  man  may  not  be  able  to  pick  up  a  large  rock,  but  by 
putting  a  lever  under  it  he  can  move  it  quite  a  distance. 

We  saw  a  very  interesting  example  of  this.  This  is  somewhat  off  the 
topic  of  the  riots  in  Harlem,  but  only  about  10  days  ago  at  Brooklyn 
College  in  New  York  Jeff  Gordon,  who  was  one  of  the  very  boisterous 
witnesses  we  had  during  the  Pool  bill  hearings  last  year,  brought  in  a 
group  of  about  15  people — this  was  a  week  ago  last  Friday — ^to  Brook- 
lyn College  to  prevent  the  Navy  recruiters  from  operating  on  campus. 


1 062    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Gordon  refused  to  identify  himself  to  one  of  the  deans,  would 
not  say  whether  he  was  a  student  of  the  school,  which  in  fact  he  was. 
The  dean  called  the  policemen  and  pretty  soon  a  demonstration  devel- 
oped. At  one  point  at  least  a  thousand  young  people  were  milling 
around  the  Brooklyn  College  campus.  There  were  attempts  to  prevent 
the  paddy  wagon  from  moving  Jeff  Gordon  away.  Eventually  50 
people  were  ai*rested.  A  number  of  people  were  injured.  There  were 
attacks  on  the  police.  The  police  were  compelled  to  use  force  in  order 
to  take  their  prisoners  in  and  the  school  was  tied  up  for  days.  They 
attempted  a  student  strike,  which  not  only  disrupted  the  school  for 
days,  but  prevented  it  from  functioning  as  an  educational  institute.  All 
of  this  because  one  Progressive  Labor  Party  member  was  able  to  orga- 
nize a  situation  on  campus,  then  inflame  the  students  against  the  police. 

So,  sometimes  relatively  few  people  can  be  extremely  effective 
against  the  power  structure  if  they  can  utilize  other  people  to  do  their 
work  for  them. 

But  the  Revolutionary  Action  Movement  is  perhaps  one  of  the  most 
interesting  of  these  organizations.  If  I  may  go  into  that,  I  know  we 
have  had  in  the  record  before  information  concerning  this  group,  but 
just  to  round  out  the  picture.  The  Revolutionary  Action  Movement 
was  organized  by  Robert  Williams,  who  was  an  exile  in  Cuba.  Mr. 
Williams  was  involved  in  a  racial  demonstration  in  Monroe,  North 
Carolina,  in  which  he  kidnaped  a  white  couple  and  held  them  as 
hostages.  He  was  subsequently  indicted  for  kidnaping  and  fled  to 
Cuba.  This  is  an  FBI  "wanted"  notice  on  Robert  Williams.  "Wanted 
by  FBI,  interstate  flight — kidnaping,  Robert  Franklin  Williams." 
They  describe  him  as  follows : 

CAUTION,  Williams  allegedly  has  possessed  a  large  quantity  of  firearms, 
including  a  .45  caliber  pistol  which  he  carries  in  his  car.  He  has  previously 
been  diagnosed  as  schizophrenic  and  has  advocated  and  threatened  violence. 
"Williams  should  be  considered  armed  and  extremely  dangerous. 

He  did  get  out  of  the  dragnet  set  for  him  and  escaped  to  Com- 
munist Cuba.  He  then  made  trips  back  and  forth  to  Red  China.  He  is 
now  permanently  living  in  Red  China. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  26"  follows:) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  063 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   26 


>A/anted  by  FBI 


INTERSTATE    FLIOHT   -     KIDNAPING 

ROBERT  FRANKLIN  WILLIAMS 


ASES     BOB   "li-'ulAMS.  ROBERT  F    WILLIAMS 


Phot&gr«p^   taken  M&j .    IM 


^'WTiU-JdL^  (jj 


DESCRIPTION 

»«:       *.    tw" 
HEIOHI:     6' 
«1GMT:     2W  i 
eUlUD:     ne,,, 
HtiR:     biKk 
EYES:      brown 


^«^ 


tO«:      darn   browr 

OCruHriMS:     frM  Urr.« 
urilF'.    (r»9M   hi'ijlor 

janiU>r    machinist 


i»»t 


tlril 


CAUTION 

WIUItMS   »LLfGfDLV    H»'.    TOSSsSC    >    ti-j-     /■."    ^    i    ^-    --,■..-",. 
mCLUOmO  t  .»5  C»i.i!ltll  PIS'Ol.  i«"iCH   "-    rt^.-fs    :ii  His   cm.      -it 

ms  parvKWii.'  KE«  ononoSEn  »^  «<:Ki/oi'<«si  r  wo  h»*  »ovociifo 

wo    IM»E»TEIIED    ViOLtKCt.       »ILv   W,        V,. '.    fj    :0«"'^FSrr    IRMFO 
IND  emiBltLr  DMGtSOUS. 


H  TOO  HAVI   INrOUMATION    CONCflNINO   THIS  MISON.  PUASi    NOnrr   Ml    Ol   CONTACT    TOUC 

loCAi  F«i  omci.  ntoNf  numm«  is  ustid  uiow.  OTMfi  omcis  All  usno  on  (ACK. 


^ 


DIRECTM 


Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  In  1963  while  he  was  visiting  China,  the  New  China 
News  Agency  issued  the  following  statement  on  September  27,  1963, 
which  is  about  6  weeks  before  the  assassination  of  President  Kennedy. 
The  statement  said : 

The  American  Negro  leader  Robert  Williams,  now  visiting  China,  today  sent 
a  message  to  the  U.S.  President  Kennedy,  protesting  against  the  savage  persecu- 
tion of  American  Negroes  by  U.S.  racialists  enjoying  Kennedy's  aid  and  comfort. 

The  message  reads :  "From  the  Liberated  People's  Republic  of  China,  staunch 
supporter  of  the  Negro  struggle  for  freedom,  as  a  former  official  of  the  National 
Association  for  the  Advancement  of  Colored  People — 


88-083  O — 68 — pt. 


1 064    SUBVERSIVE  INrLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTESTG,  AND  BURNING 

And  might  I  interject  lie  was  removed  as  an  official  because  of  his 
advocacy  of  violence.  [Continues  reading:] 

again  I  add  my  voice  to  the  many  peoples  of  the  world  who  are  protesting  the 
savage  persecution,  murder  and  unjust  imprisonment  of  Afro-Americans.  The 
barbaric  conduct  of  U.S.  racists  enjoying  the  aid  and  comfort  of  your  govern- 
ment exposes  your  pious-sounding  speeches  as  the  vilest  sort  of  hypocrisy.  Is 
Birmingham  indicative  of  the  democracy  the  USA  would  like  to  export  to  Latin 
America,  Asia  and  Africa?  Let  me  remind  you  that  these  heathen  racist  crimes 
against  black  humanity  shall  be  avenged." 

(Document  marked  "Komerstein  Exhibit  No.  2Y"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Mr.  Williams  was  also  active  before  he  fled  the 
United  States  in  the  Fair  Play  for  Cuba  Committee  and  was  deeply 
involved  in  many  other  leftist  activities.  While  in  Cuba  he  published 
a  newsletter  called  The  Crusader^  a  copy  of  which  was  introduced  yes- 
terday by  Detective  Hart. 

This  is  another  issue  of  the  same  magazine  which  indicates  "pub- 
lished in  Cuba  as  a  private  publication,"  dated  February  1964,  wliich 
states : 

When  massive  violence  comes,  the  USA  will  become  a  bedlam  of  confusion  and 
chaos.  The  factory  workers  will  be  afraid  to  venture  out  on  the  streets  to  report 
to  their  jobs.  The  telephone  workers  and  radio  workers  will  be  afraid  to  report. 
All  transportation  will  grind  to  a  complete  standstill.  Stores  will  be  destroyed 
and  looted.  Property  will  be  damaged  and  expensive  buildings  will  be  reduced 
to  ashes.  Essential  pipe  lines  will  be  severed  and  blown  up  and  all  manner  of 
sabotage  will  occur.  Violence  and  terror  will  spread  like  a  firestorm.  *  *  * 

This  was  prior  to  any  of  the  riots  in  our  major  cities — Williams 
anticipating  these  types  of  riots  at  that  time. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  28.") 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  This  is  an  issue  of  The  Crusader  now  published  in 
Red  China.  It  is  dated  October  1966. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  Do  you  know  how  these  come  into  the  United  States? 
Do  they  come  in  surreptitiously  or  through  the  front  door  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Most  of  them  are  shipped  to  Canada  where  they 
are  then  mailed  first  class  into  the  United  States.  In  this  issue  in  1966 
he  raises  a  new  and  interesting  slogan.  He  says : 

The  most  noble  cry  to  come  out  of  racist  Ajn erica  since  the  Boston  Tea  Party 
is  the  cry :  BURN  BABY,  BURN.  It  is  a  good  starter  for  more  than  just  fires. 
It  is  a  point  of  origin  for  a  mighty  evolutionary  process. 

He  later  says, 

Our  objective  must  be  to  destroy  the  enemy  and  his  property  while  saving 
our  people.  The  brothers  also  must  sharpen  their  marksmanship.  Yes,  BURN 
BABY,  BURN,  like  the  Boston  Tea  Party,  is  a  good  point  of  origin  but  in  the 
final  analysis  the  brutal  oppressor  must  go  and  the  cry  KILL  BABY,  KILL  must 
prevail. 

This  is  out  of  Red  China  and  was  distributed  by  the  Revolutionary 
Action  Movement  in  the  U.S. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  29."  Excerpts  from 
Exhibits  28  and  29  follow :) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1065 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   28 


^f)t 


xumotv 


MONTHLIJ  NEIVSLEJTER 


ROBERT  F.   WILLIAMS,  Publisher  —IN   EXILE— 
VOL.  5  —  No.  2  FEBRUARY  1964 


(Excerpts  firem  "Revolution  Without  Violence?"] 


The  present  hope  of  Airoamericans  to  cure  the  mahgnant  ills  ot  savage  lacia; 
oppression,  by  so-called  peaceful  methods,  approximates  mild  medication  wherft 
surgery  is  needed.  Turn-the-other-cheekism  is  tantamount  to  treating  psycholics 
with  homicidal  tendancies  by  playing  a  childish  game  of  "fag"  or  touch  loot  bull 
when    a   dose   of   elec.'rical   shock    is    needed. 


Total  integration  means  assimilation.  Is  the  American  society  based  upon  the 
premise  of  nonviolence?  No  I  It  is  an  insensate  and  violent  society.  It  is  a  society 
whose  symbol  is  the  marauding  eagle.  There  is  no  place  in  the  eagle's  nest  for 
a  peace  dove.  The  timid  peace  dove  is  the  symbol  that  the  liberals  would  have 
u.'  adopt.  Pacifism  is  alien  to  the  American  mode  of  life.  Pacifism,  adopted  by 
a  people  already  set  aside  from  the  mainstream  of  American  life  because  of  a 
blood  and  color  differential,  adds  another  distir.ci  feature  to  broaden  the  discrim- 
inatory chism.  If  not  in  color,  at  least  in  social  conduct,  we  must  reflect  similarities 
in  order  to  become  assimilated  into  North  American  society  and  its  culture.  The 
culj  of  nonviolence  is  a  religion  thai  brings  glory  and  gratification  to  latent 
machochists. 


Yes,  we  should  all  advocate  peaceful  and  nonviolent  demonstrations  ir\  order 
to  mobilize  the  masses  of  our  people  and  to  expose  the  true  nature  of  U.S. 
racism  to  the  world,  but  let  us  not  be  so  naive  as  to  believe  that  we  can 
conduct  a  revolution  without  violence.  Let  us  not  be  so  asinine  as  to  believe 
that  we  can  appeal  to  the  conscience  of  a  brutal  oppressor  to  the  extent  that 
he  will  voluntarily  release  our  people  from  almost  400  years  of  shackles  and  the 
dark  dungeon   of  slavery   and  misery. 


We  must  defend  ourselves.  We  must  fight  back.  We  must  reject  the  unwritten 
committment  that  so-called  Negro  leaders  have  made  guaranteeing  our  brutal 
oppressors  immunity  from  retribution  for  their  henious  acts  of  violence  against  our 
defenseless  people.  Not  only  must  we  defend  ourselves  violently,  but  we  must 
do  it  collectively.  We  must  condition  ourselves  for  defense,  both  physically  and 
psychologically.   We  n^ust   become   adept   in    the   methods    of  massive   defense. 

There  are  those  mercenary  Uncle  Toms  and  masochists  among  us,  whose 
missions  are  to  demoralize  our  people  and  encourage  them  to  reject  the  first  law 
oj  nature.  They  are  quick  to  inform  us  that  we  cannol  win  any  conflic;  that  may 
degenerate  into  a  state  of  massive  violence.  Why  do  they  not  tell  the  racist 
oppressors  that  they  cannot  win?  Why  do  they  not  tell  them  that  they  constitute 
a  minority  in  the  world?  the  faci  is  that  the  racists^are^lhe  ones  who  will  lo'se^ 
such   a  conflict.   America  is  too  sensitive  to  withstand   such   a   shock.   The   oppressors 


1066    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  28 — Continued 

have  more  to  lose  than  the  dehumanized  and  oppressed  in  such  a  conflict.  Our 
people    have    nothing   to   lose   but   their   chains. 

We  prefer  peaceful  negotiations,  but  our  oppressors  have  proved  to  us  thai 
they  are  not  susceptible  to  such  mild  pressures  for  reform  and  thai  they  will 
utilize  massive  violence  to  a:tempt  to  contain  our  struggle.  When  massive  violence 
comes,  the  USA  will  become  a  bedlam  of  confusion  and  chaos.  The  factory 
workers  will  be  atraid  to  venture  out  on  the  streets  to  report  to  their  jobs.  The 
telephone  workers  and  radio  workers  will  be  afraid  to  report.  All  fransportaiion 
will  grind  to  a  complete  standstill.  Stores  wjll  be  destroyed  and  loolfed.  Property 
will  be  damaged  and  expensive  buildings  will  be  reduced  to  ashes.  Essential 
pipe  lines  will  be  severed  and  blown  up  and  all  manner  of  sabotage  will  occur. 
Violence  and  terror  will  spread  like  a  firestorm.  A  clash  will  occur  inside  the 
armed  forces.  At  U.S.  military  bases  around  the  world  local  revolutionaries  will 
side  with  Afro  G.  I.'s.  Because  of  the  vast  area  covered  by  the  holocaust,  US 
forces  will  be  spread  too  thin  for  effective  action.  U.S.  workers,  who  are  caught 
or  their  jobs,  will  try  tc  return  home  to  protecl  their  families.  Trucks  and  trains 
will  noi  move  the  necessary  supplies  to  the  big  urban  centers.  The  economy  will 
fall   into   ft  state   of   chaos. 

This  racist  imperialist  oppressor  will  not  be  brought  to  his  knees,  simply 
because  of  the  fighting  ability  and  military  power  of  Black  FreedoiTi  Fighters  and 
Iheir  allies  inside  the  U.S.,  but  because  of  the  creation  of  economic,  chaotic 
condiiions,  total  disorganization,  frustration  of  his  essential  and  ultra  vital  organs 
of  production,  and  adverse  conditions  created  by  the  world  wide  liberation 
struggle.  Such  a  formidable  enemy  will  fall  prey  to  the  new  concept  of  revolution 
because  o:  hii  ultra  modern  and  automated  society  and  the  lack  Oi  psychological 
conditioning  of  his  forces.  Our  people  have  already  been  conditioned  by  almost 
400   years  oi   violence,   terror  and  hunger. 

The  new  concept  oi  revolution  defies  military  science  and  tactics  The  new 
concept  is  lightning  campaigns  conducted  in  highly  sensitive  urban  communities 
with  the  paralysis  reaching  the  small  communities  and  spreading  to  the  farm  areas. 
The  old  method  of  guerrilla  warfare,  as  carried  out  from  the  lulls  and  countryside, 
would  be  ineffective  in  a  powerful  country  like  the  USA.  Any  such  force  would 
be  wiped  out  in  an  hour.  The  new  concept  is  to  huddle  as  close  to  the  enemy 
as  possible  so  as  to  neutralize  his  modern  and  fierce  weapons.  The  new  concept 
creates  conditions  that  involve  the  total  community,  whether  they  want  to  be 
involved  or  not.  It  sustains  a  state  of  confusion  and  destruction  of  property.  It 
dislocates  the  organs  of  harmony  and  order  and  reduces  central  power  to  the 
level  oi  a  helpless,  sprawling,  octopus.  During  the  hours  oi  day  sporadic  rioting 
takes  place  and  massive  sniping.  Night  brings  all  out  warfare,  organized  fighting 
and  unlimited  terror  against  the  oppressor  and  his  forces.  Such  a  campaign  will 
bring  about  an  end  to  oppression  and  social  injustice  in  the  USA  in  less  than  90 
days  and  create  the  basis  for  the  implementation  of  the  U.S.  Constitution  with 
justice   and  equality    for   all   people. 

Of  course,  there  would  be  great  losses  on  the  part  of  our  people.  How  can 
we  expect  liberation  without  losses?  Our  people  are  already  being  admonished 
by  the  nonviolent  forces  to  die  for  Freedom.  We  are  being  told  to  sacrafice  our 
lives  in  situations  of  diminishing  returns.  If  we  must  die,  let  us  die  in  the  only 
way  that  the  oppressor  will  feel  the  weight  of  our  death.  Let  us  die  in  the  tried 
and  proven  way  of  liberation.  If  we  are  going  to  talk  about  revolution,  let  us 
know    wha;   revolution    means.  # 


It  is  no  longer  a  truism  that  our  people  cannot  win  such  a  struggle.  The 
world  has  changed  and  the  favor  oi  the  situation  has  shifted  to  the  sitle  oi  the 
A.roameiican.  Those  who  cry  that  we  cannot  win  ure  ei  her  agents  of  the  oppressor, 
latent  masochists  or  ignorant  of  the  new  facts  of  life.  We  do  not  need  paternal 
white  "b!g  daddies"  for  our  friends  now.  What  we  need  are  some  fighting 
John   Browns. 

Our  friends  are  growing  throughout  the  world,  while  those  of  our  oppressors 
are  diminishing.  It  is  important  that  we  immediately  create  stronger  ties  with  our 
brothers  of  Latin  America,  Asia  and  Africa.  It  is  important  that  our  people  slop 
cooperating  with  our  oppressor  and  exert  more  effort  to  expose  his  beastly  ways 
to  the  peoples  oi  the  world.  Yes,  we  can  win  because  our  struggle  is  jus.  and 
our  .'riends  are  many.  The  hand  writing  is  already  on  the  wall.  Victory  is  now 
within   our   reach     LET  US  PREPARE  TO  SEIZE   IT! 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1067 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  29 


^^^ 


NEWSLETTER 


ROBERT   F.   WILLIAMS,   Publisher  -  IN    KXIIE - 
VOL.  8  — No.  1  OCTOBFK  19<)() 


CHINA'S    mil    ANMVKRSARY:    AFRO-AMKRICANS    RIJ'RKSKN  TE1> 

The  Chinese  r*roletarian  Cultural  KevoluiiDn  is  biingint,'  many  progres- 
sive ihantJes  to  the  new  suciuty.     It   is  establishing  a  new  basis  for  world 
revolution.     Hie  colossal  mass  celebration  of  the  17th  Anniversai;. 
People's   Republic   of   China,   compi  ising   one  and   a   half   million   partM 
ipants,    offers    strong    proof   of  th<'    new    emphasis    on    people's    stru-Jt4!i' 
and  universal  solidarity  on  all  anli-imperialist  and  anti-racist  fronts.     Fur 
the  first  time  in  its  17  year  history,  some  foreign  frefd'in  f;   b- 
also  invited   to  speak  lo  the  mammoth   Annivers.iry   rally. 


<  hairman    Mao    looks    on    as    Afro-.Vmtrican 
addri'ssts    171h    Anniv«'rsar.\     Rall\ 


1068    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  29 — Continued 

[Excerpts  from  Robert  Williams  speech  as  printed  in  October  1966  issue  of 

The  Crusader] 

SfEECH   OF  ROBERT   F.   WILLIAMS: 

Comrades,   Revolutionaries   and   Friends: 

In  the  name  of  all  the  revolutionary  American  people,  and  especially 
in  the  nanie  of  the  brutally  oppressed  and  victimized  Afro-American 
freedom  fighters,  I  salute  our  glorious  Chinese  brothers  and  the  might> 
Chinese  People's  Republic  on  this  historical  17th  Anniversary.  To  salute 
our  glorious  Chinese  brothers  and  the  mighty  Chinese  People's  Repvibiic 
is  to  pay  tribute  to  its  great  architect,  liberator,  helmsman  and  universal 
leader  and  teacher,  whose  thought  is  transforming  the  whole  world.  On 
this  great  National  Day.  revolutionaries  throughout  the  world  reuli?."* 
more  than  ever  how  much  we  are  indebted  to  the  architect  of  pe«^pl<'  s 
warfare,  the  immortal  leader  and  teacher,  Chairnlan  Mao  Tse-tung. 


We  call  upon  our  opFMressed  people  to  further  inten.sify  the  batth;  and 
to  coordinate  their  revolutionary  activity  with  the  liberation  forcet;  of 
Asia.  Latin  America,  Africa  and  the  justice  and  peace  loving  peoples 
of  all  races  throughout  the  world.  We  do  not  seek  F>eace  and  fr.>iernity 
with  the  devil  and  a  favored  lackey  status  in  his  hell.  Instead  we  ^eek 
his  resolute  and  total  destruction  and  the  glorious  heritage  of  a  Peo- 
ple's World.  Contrary  to  what  some  cynics  would  have  us  believe,  our 
vicious  enetny  is  not  invincible.  Chairman  Mao  has  said,  he  is  "a  paper 
tiger"  and  our  people  have  come  to  realize  this  incontrovertible  truth. 
And  the  thunder  of  BLACK  POWER  echoes  throughout  the  land,  while 
U.S.  imperialist  tyrants,  armed  with  horrible  death  weapons,  tremble 
from  the  terrifying  shock  of  a  confrontation  with  wretched  and  angry 
masses,  armed  with  a  common  household  match  and  a  bottle  of  gasoline. 

(Excerpts  from  editorial  comments  by  Robert  F.  Williams  in  same  issue) 
USA:  THE  IMPENDING  CRISIS 


The  nearer  imperialist  America  comes  to  her  doom  the  more  fcrociou.s 
she  will  become.  Yes,  she  will  become  ever  more  aggressive  ;»nd  brutal 
with  her  butcher's  knife.  The  Alro-American,  due  to  his  pro.ximity 
to  the  raging,  wounded  and  doomed  beast,  will  bear  the  full  brunt 
of  its  savage  ferocity.  There  will  be  no  margin  left  to  even  hope 
for  the  faintest  possibility  of  reconciliation.  All  means  and  lines  of 
communications  will  be  severed.  Integration  will  be  a  dead  word  of  the 
past.  The  watchword  will  be  do-or-die.  Mass  violence  is  coming  to  the 
Afro-American,  whether  he  wants  it  or  is  prepared  for  it  or  not.  The 
only  possible  salvation  for  our  people  is  a  strong  united  front,  total 
organization  and  a  total  mobilization  for  black  power.  Our  people  must 
become  fully  armed,  solidly  organized  and  psychologically  prepared  for 
one  of  the  most  unorthodox  and  bloody  wars  in  the  history  of  the  world. 
There  can  be  no  love  or  mercy  for  the  brutal  savage  enemy.  There 
can  be  no  hesitation  on  the  part  of  our  fighters  to  kill  or  be  killed. 
Such  a  violent  and  destructive  conflict  will  not  be  a  conflict  of  choice 
but  will  be  thrust  uf>on  us  by  a  savage,  callous,  spiteful,  racist,  impe- 
rialist  and   doomed   devil. 

Racist  and  imj>erialiHt  America  will  soon  be  besieged  from  the  four 
corners  of  the  world  while  the  mainland  itself  becomes  engulfed  by  a 
horrible  fire  storm  sweeping  away  the  last  vestiges  of  a  barbaric  slavoc- 
racy.     Afro-Americans    must    understand    that    the    U.S.    racial    conflict 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1069 

RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  29 — Continued 

is  a  sector  of  the  world-wide  struggle  against  the  world  devil.  The 
sworn  and  proven  enemy  of  the  black  people  of  racist  America's  pocket- 
sized  colonial  ghettoes  is  the  common  enemy  of  peace  and  justice  loving 
people  throughout  the  world.  The  Afro-American  cannot  afford  to 
harbor  any  reservations  as  to  the  final  solution  to  the  present  oppres- 
sive status-quo.  Four  hundred  years  of  relentless  racial  tyranny  and 
injustice  can  leave  no  illusions  as  to  the  intransigent  nature  of  the 
stone  hearted  brute.  The  man  must  go.  Afro-Americans  must  be  done 
with  him  and  stretch  out  their  hands  in  unity  with  their  struggling 
brothers  throughout  the  world.  There  is  pressing  need  for  an  inter- 
national liberation  front  to  sp>eed  the  doom  of  the  world's  devil.  U.S. 
imperialism. 


LIE  DOWN  WITH  THE  DEVIL  AND  DIE 


In  Watts,  in  Cleveland,  Chicago.  Detroit,  New  York,  Atlanta,  Grenada 
and  a  zillion  other  places  too  numerous  to  mention,  the  story  is  the  .same. 
Charlie  is  out  to  lay  a  whammy  on  black-  people  who  seek  elementary 
human  rights.  How  can  a  brutish  society,  harboring  and  abetting  vicious 
beasts  who  savagely  brutalize  m.ore  babies  for  attempting  to  attend  "free 
world"'  public  schools,  truly  be  interested  in  protecting  and  fostering 
"democratic  institutions"  in  Uncle  Tom  Ky's  occupied  Vietnam?  What 
does  whitey  devil  mean  when  he  so  hypocritically  brays  about  freedom 
and  democracy?  Governments,  like  men.  must  be  judged  by  deeds  rather 
than  pious  sounding  deceptive  words  and  slogans.  In  raci.st  America,  in 
the  year  1966,  before  the  eyes  of  a  disbelieving  world,  almost  200  year.-, 
after  a  black  man  first  died  in  a  white  man's  war  for  freedom  and  in- 
dependence, black  babies  are  maimed  and  mauled  by  while  savages  f«)r 
executing  the  implementation  of  a  so-called  civil  rights  bill.  In  almost 
the  same  breath  whitey  filibusters  another  civil  rights  bill  in  a  show  of 
white  power  and  a  flagrant  rejection  of  the  Afro-American's  demiind  lor 
luiman  rights. 

A  200  years  truth  looms  graphic.nlly  before  us.  This  cold  truth  is  the 
hard  fact  that  the  only  constant  and  inalienable  right  accorded  black  men 
by  racist  America  is  the  right  to  die  for  the  white  man's  freedom  to 
continue  oppressing  colored  humanity.  The  white  man's  concept  ut 
democracy  is  the  right  to  practice  genocide  and  dehumiinization  nyaioia 
black   people   without   retribution. 


KILL  BABY,  KILL 


We  could  try  to  reason  with  Charlie  a  thousand  >ears  and  he  would 
never  concede  the  fact  that  colored  people  have  the  right  to  engage  in 
any  form  of  violence  not  sanctioned  and  supervised  by  the  white  god- 
man  of  the  earth.  Charlie's  kept  nigras,  the  Uncle  Toms,  would  sell 
their  mammies  into  hell's  brothels  just  to  be  the  errand  boys  and 
'•resp>onsible"  pimps  in  the  boss's  ghetto  slave  camps.  In  this  type  of 
situation  reason  is  dead.  Those  who  "peacefully"'  submit  are  also  dead. 
Violence  is  the  only  medium  of  communication  between  an  intransigent 
brutal  oppressor  and  the  ever  suffering  oppressed.     The  most  noble  cry 


1  070    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  29 — Continued 

to  come  out  of  racist  America  since  th^e  Boston  Tea  Party  is  the  cry: 
BURN"  BABY,  BURN.  It  is  a  good  starter  for  more  than  just  fires.  It 
IS  a  ix)int  of  origin  for  a  mighty  evolutionary  process. 


Yes,  our  glorious  youth  are  concerned  with  saving  black  life;  this  is 
why  they  are  willing  to  die.  Yes,  they*  are  truly  concerned,  for  it  is 
written  that  there  is  no  greater  love  than  that  of  one  who  will  lay  down 
his  life  for  a  friend.  The  cry.  BURN  BABY.  BURN  will  do  more  to 
transform  racist  America  than  all  the  love  and,  nonviolence  in  the  Vf^ld. 
My  greatest  concern  is  that  too  many  of  our  people  are  being  killedf  arid 
injured  due  to  the  lack  of  organization  and  the  experience  of  urban 
combat.  This  weakness  must  be  overcome.  /  Our  objective  must  be  to 
destroy  the  enemy  and  his  property  while  saving  our  people.  The 
brothers  also  must  sharpen  their  mark.vmanship.  Yes.  BURN  BABY. 
BURN,  like  the  Boston  Tea  Party,  is  a  good  point  of  origin  but  in  the 
final  analysis  the  brutal  opprestor  must  go  and  the  cry  KILL  BABY. 
KILL  must  prevail. 


Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  The  field  secretary  of  the  Revolutionary  Action 
Movement,  Max  Stanford,  writing  in  an  issue  of  their  publication 
BLACK  AMERICA  in  the  fall  of  1964,  said  that : 

In  order  to  free  ourselves  mentally,  we  must  Icnow  the  power  black  people  have 
in  this  country. 

These  powers  are,  one,  the  power  to  stop  the  machinery  of  government — that  is, 
the  power  to  cause  chaos,  and  make  the  situation  such  that  nothing  runs.  Two, 
is  the  power  to  hurt  the  economy.  With  black  people  creating  mass  chaos — espe- 
cially in  the  major  urban  areas  in  the  North— and  disrupting  the  agricultural 
setup  in  the  South,  the  economy  of  the  oppressor  would  come  to  almost  a  stand- 
still. Three,  is  the  power  of  unleashing  violence.  This  is  the  power  that  black 
people  have  to  tear  up  "Charlie's"  house — 

Charlie  is  a  colloquial  term  for  white  man  frequently  found  in  black 
nationalist  literature.  [Continues  reading:] 

This  is  something  that  probably  every  Asian,  African,  and  Latin  American  rev- 
olutionary wished  he  could  do.  But  this  goody  is  left  to  the  AfroAmerican. 

The  Chairman.  Mr.  Romerstein,  I  have  an  impression  that  RAM 
recognizes  this  man  Robert  Williams  as  a  leader.  Is  that  your 
information  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir.  The  issue  of  the  official  RAM  publication 
BLACK  AMERICA  for  the  summer  and  fall  of  1965  prints  the  pic- 
ture of  Robert  Williams  and  says,  "Robert  Franklin  Williams — chair- 
man-in-Exile  of  the  Revolutionary  Action  Movement ;  Premier  of  the 
African-american  govemment-in-exile."  He  also  has  elected  himself 
premier. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  30"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

Mr.  Watson.  Mr.  Romerstein,  do  you  know  whether  or  not  RAM 
has  complete  diagrams  of  the  utilities,  and  so  forth,  in  New  York  City 
and  Chicago  ?  And  of  course  we  recognize  the  danger  of  having  such 
information  in  the  hajids  of  irresponsible,  violent  people  as  that.  Do 
you  know  whether  they  have?  I  nave  heard  they  nave. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1071 

Mr.  RoMERSTBiN.  Sir,  I  do  not  have  the  answei'  to  that  question. 

Mr.  Watson,  You  do  not? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  No,  sir.  But  the  same  issue  of  BLACK  AMERICA 
that  printed  the  picture  of  Robert  Williams  has  a  very  interesting 
statement  in  the  light  of  later  developments  in  New  York.  It  says: 
"As  the  struggle  becomes  more  intense,  a  Mau-Mau  of  a  political  form 
will  probably  have  political  ambitions  which  the  house  mggers,  (uncle 
toms) " — this  is  a  term  they  use  for  responsible  Negroes  wno  are  part 
of  our  society — "and  the  public  racist  will  be  unable  to  fulfill."  Re- 
garding the  new  Mau  Mau  organization :  "It  will  probably  assassinate 
racist  leaders  and  house  niggers  who  don't  follow  its  line.  The  cry  in 
the  black  community  will  be  'Liberation  or  Death !'  " 

In  the  summer  of  1967,  lY  members  of  the  Revolutionary  Action 
Movement,  including  Max  Stanford,  were  arrested  in  New  York  and 
Philadelphia  for  plotting  the  assassination  of  Whitney  Young  and 
Roy  Wilkins,  Whitney  Yoimg  of  the  Urban  League  and  Roy  Wilkins 
of  the  NAACP.  That  trial  is  still  pending.  One  of  the  prime  leaders 
in  the  group  that  was  arrested  was  a  man  named  Ferguson. 

In  1963  there  were  demonstrations  conducted  at  the  site  of  a  co- 
operative housing  project  in  Jamaica,  which  is  called  Rochdale  Vil- 
lage. This  cooperative  housing  development  has  as  part  of  its  program 
that  at  least  20  percent  of  the  apartments  must  be  filled  by  Negroes.  The 
housing  development  itself  is  in  the  middle  of  a  large  Negro  com- 
munity; the  immediate  surrounding  area  of  the  development  is  one- 
family  Negro-owned  homes.  There  is  a  great  deal  of  contact  between 
the  residents  of  Rochdale  and  the  surrounding  Negro  community ;  both 
the  Negroes  in  Rochdale  and  white  people  are  in  such  contact. 

There  were  demonstrations  against  the  building  of  this  housing 
development.  This  is  an  article  from  the  AmsterdaTn  News  in  New 
York,  December  Y,  1968  [page  29] .  It  says : 

All  120  demonstrators  arrested  at  the  Rochdale  Village  summer  agitation  for 
jobs  won  freedom  by  last  week  as  Queens  Supreme  Court  Judge  Joseph  M. 
Conroy  likened  them  to  "the  patriots  of  the  Boston  Tea  Party"  and  dismissed 
indictments  against  the  remaining  nine. 

It  states : 

The  dismissal  of  the  nine  indicted  persons  Nov.  26,  followed  the  refusal  of 
the  grand  jury  to  indict  the  other  111  on  November  22.  These  nine  were  the 
crane  climbers  charged  with  trespass — 

They  had  climbed  on  a  crane  to  prevent  work  on  the  buildings. 
[Continues  reading :] 

Among  them  is  Herman  B.  Ferguson,  who  is  the  vanguard  of  the  movement. 

Four  years  later  Herman  Ferguson  was  in  the  vanguard  of  the 
Revolutionary  Action  Movement  in  their  plot  to  assassinate  moderate 
Negro  leaders. 

Mr.  Watson.  You  should  not  be  surprised  that  the  activity 
has  increased  when  we  have  a  member  of  the  judiciary  refer  to  them 
as  great  patriots,  and  so  forth.  That  is  just  adding  fuel  to  the  fire 
and  encouraging  them. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Ycs,  sir. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  31,"  follows :) 


1072    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


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SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  073 

Mr.  KoMERSTEiN.  May  I  point  out  that  Mr.  Ferguson  is  assistant 
principal  of  a  New  York  City  school.  A  number  of  the  EAM  people 
arrested  in  connection  with  this  plot  were  not  of  the  working  class  by 
any  stretch  of  the  imagination  but  intellectuals,  people  who  held  ex- 
tremely good  white-collar  jobs. 

Mr.  Watson.  So  he  was  involved  in  this  demonstration  and  all  of 
that.  So  far  as  you  know,  had  he  been  denied  proper  housing  and  job 
opportunities,  and  so  forth,  this  man  Ferguson  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  No,  sir.  He  has  not.  He  has  risen  to  assistant 
principal  of  a  school  in  New  York  City.  He  has  been  given  a  great 
deal  of  opportunity. 

The  indictment  of  the  KAM  leaders  resulted  in  a  broad  united 
front  being  formed  to  support  them.  And  a  demonstration  was  sched- 
uled to  take  place  in  Harlem  on  August  27,  1967,  but  was  called  off 
because  it  was  one  of  the  weekends  that  it  rained,  and  the  rain  just 
came  down  and  it  was  impossible  for  them  to  hold  a  demonstration. 
But  the  list  of  scheduled  speakers  to  defend  RAM  is  rather  interest- 
ing :  Bill  Epton  of  Progressive  Labor ;  Paul  Boutelle  of  the  Socialist 
Workers  Party,  who  was  mentioned  this  morning  by  Detective  Wood 
as  the  man  who  put  him  in  touch  with  Robert  Collier;  Jesse  Gray; 
LeRoi  Jones,  who  is  currently  on  trial  in  New  Jersey  for  his  con- 
nection with  the  riot  in  Newark. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  32,"  appears  on  p. 
1074.) 

Mr.  Watson.  LeRoi  is  the  one  that  wrote  that  play  to  teach  the 
colored  man  how  to  kill  the  white  man  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir.  He  has  written  more  than  one  on  that 
theme  and  has  written  a  number  of  poems  also  indicating  the  same 
type  of  thinking. 

Mr.  Watson.  The  Government  provided  resources  for  production 
of  that  play? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Yes,  sir;  the  Black  Arts  Theater  in  New  York 
was  a  recipient  of  poverty  funds.  This  was  a  theater  organized  by 
LeRoi  Jones.  He  was  actually  the  recipient  of  those  funds.  However, 
those  funds  have  since  been  cut  off. 

Mr.  Watson.  Certainly  LeRoi  and  his  art  production  never  in- 
tended to  encourage  responsible  citizenship  on  the  part  of  people, 
did  it? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  No,  sir.  As  a  matter  of  fact,  at  one  point  the  police 
were  forced  to  raid  the  premises  of  the  Black  Arts  Theater  while  they 
were  chasing  somebody  who  had  gunned  down  a  RAM  member.  There 
was  a  split  within  the  RAM  movement  which  resulted  in  a  shooting 
altercation  between  members  of  RAM.  The  police,  in  trying  to  appre- 
hend the  culprits,  entered  the  premises  of  the  Black  Arts  Theater 
where  they  confiscated  a  number  of  weapons.  So  this  theater  was  also 
a  storage  house  for  weapons  that  were  being  used. 

But  the  poverty  program  did  cancel  out  the  funds  to  this  particular 
group.  However,  when  Jones  was  arrested  in  Newark  this  past  sum- 
mer, arrested  with  him  there  were  people  in  this  car  allegedly  firing 
weapons  out  of  the  window.  The  car  was  stopped  and  Jones  and  a 
Charles  McCray,  also  listed  as  a  speaker  at  this  meeting,  were  ar- 
rested. Mr.  McCray  is  an  employee  of  the  poverty  program  in  New- 
ark, New  Jersey.  He  is  presently  accountant  for  the  United  Com- 
munity Corporation,  the  OEO  agency  in  Newark. 


1074    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  32 


SUPPORT  AND  DEFEND 
■  TRESEVENTEENI! 

%   Seventeen  Afrlcan-AmerlcanB  have  b'^en  falsely  accused 
of  plottlni^  to  kill  other  African- Americans .   The  Ja- 
maica Flfle  and  Pi.Ttol  Club,  cf  whi'^h  some  of  the  Se- 
venteen are  members,  has  been  falsely  charged  with 
being  a  front  organization  for  a  "Terrorist  Group.'' 
The  SevFnteen  are  beln^;  framed.   The  racist  press 
has  trleu  and  convicted  tiie  .Jeventeen  before  the 
trial. 

T^EMEM?e^rrieTRhW£UP  OF  TWl  HARLEM  9ix/ 

Thiis  ycHv   the  Harlem  '.omrnunl  "y  has  been  stripped  of 
Its  Conpreosman.   Miihamnif^d  All  was  convicted  because 
he  refused  to  kill  his  Vletnaner,e  brothers,  and  Hlack 
people  flirhtlnp;  thp  oppression  rC   the  phetto  are  be- 
ing ruthlessly  I'rprensed. 

liH\T£  T6  Slop  ^^Cl^TG6MOaT)£  ACAIMH 
guAc+i.  PEOPLE- 


ATTEND  TME 


yNfDATAOC.27 

5  to  &  py\ 
Top  of  MT  MoRRiS  ?^AI?K  ftT  112^ 


Partial    List   o/'   Srealf^rr-. 
Floyd   M'^KIsnlci^  i.l  1  1    lipton 

Lerol    Joneg  Tai'l    "o'ltelle 

Jesse   Gray  Mae   Hal  lory 

Charles   Mc'ray  i-^ueen   toother 

Osfr.Ieran    AiJIfuml 


I.eslle    Campbell 
Jim   Hauphton 
I^wls   Mlcheaux 
Gilbert    l«\nka 


Sponsored    by:      The    f31ack    United    Action    I'^ront 

1^9  West    l,-?^-t»i   :.;t.    -    Rm.    /|    -   666-07^-7 
With   Co-Sponnorship  of  The    Dlaok    feople's    Parliament 


SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  075 

Mr.  Watson.  Of  course  they  canceled  the  funds,  terminated  giving 
funds  to  them,  but  the  cast  had  already  been  assembled,  and  the  play 
had  already  been  produced.  Audiences  had  seen  it  on  numbers  of 
occasions,  had  they  not  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  Watson.  This  is  like  locking  the  bam  after  the  horse  is  already 
out. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Not  only  did  audiences  see  the  play,  but  white 
people  were  barred  from  the  audience  of  this  federally  paid  for  theater. 

Mr.  Watson.  I  am  sure  they  should  have  been  barred.  If  they  had 
gotten  in  there  with  that  kind  of  atmosphere  and  emotion,  they  may 
have  been  killed  right  there  on  the  spot.  Of  course,  people  are  not 
worried  about  that. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  In  the  course  of  the  attempt  of  E.AM  to  defend 
itself  against  charges,  numerous  leaflets  were  issued.  Once  again  we 
find  the  same  example  of  consistent  falsehoods,  consistent  lies  in  order 
to  inflame  the  situation.  Now,  this  is  a  RAM  leaflet  describing  the 
arrest  of  their  leaders.  It  says  this: 

The  New  York  police  department  and  Philadelphia  police  department  are 
almost  totally  controlled  hy  the  John  Birch  Society,  Minutcmen  and  American 
Nazi  Party.  *  *  * 

This  will  come  as  a  big  shock  to  all  the  members  of  both  police 
departments.  It  goes  on  in  that  vein,  one  lie  after  another. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  33"  appears  on  pp. 
1076,1077.) 

Mr.  Romerstein.  A  meeting  took  place  on  a  street  corner  in  Brook- 
lyn, at  Fulton  Street  in  Brooklyn  on  August  13,  1967,  once  again  to 
defend  the  RAM  people  who  were  arrested.  Among  the  speaker  were 
Mae  Mallory,  who  had  been  arrested  with  Robert  Williams  in  the 
Monroe,  North  Carolina,  kidnaping  case ;  Paul  Boutelle  of  the  Socialist 
Workers  Party — we  have  run  across  him  before  in  the  testimony  of 
Detective  Wood — and  Herman  Ferguson,  the  key  man  in  the  New 
York  RAM  organization  that  was  responsible  for  organizing  the 
group. 

Mr.  Watson.  Do  you  know  whether  or  not  the  Mae  MaUory  was 
related  to  the  rapist  Mallory  in  Washington  that  the  Supreme  Court 
gave  a  special  commendation  to  and  released  him  so  he  could  go  out 
and  commit  another  rape? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Sir,  I  have  never  seen  any  such  indication.  I 
have  no  knowledge  of  that. 

This  is  a  leaflet  that  was  issued  in  Harlem  with  no  signature  during 
this  past  summer.  Our  investigation  revealed  that  it  was  in  fact  paid 
for  and  designed  by  Progressive  Labor,  and  William  Epton  spe- 
cifically had  been  involved  in  the  printing  of  this  leaflet. 

It  prints  the  picture  of  four  people  and  says,  "HAVE  YOU  SEEN 
THESE  PEOPLE?"  It  reads : 

danger,  black  MILITANTS  BEWARE ! ! ! ! !  THE  FOUR  PEOPLE  PIC- 
TURED AT  THE  TOP  OF  THIS  PAGE  ARE  AGENTS  WORKING  FOR 
UNCLE  SAM.  THESE  PEOPLE  WERE  DIRECTLY  RESPONSIBLE  FOR 
THE  ARRESTS  OF  OUR  17  BROTHERS  AND  SISTERS  IN  QUEENS,  N.Y., 
ON  THE  WILKINS-YOUNG  ASSASSINATION   SET-UP. 


1076    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


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SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 077 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.   34 

"WAVE         YOU         SEEN         THESE       PEOPLE? 


llcKINLBY  WELCH 


DON/.U)   DUNCAN 


KWARD  BOdlXrVS,  JR. 


DANGER 

BUCK  HIUTANTS  BBWARE!!!!! 

TOH;  four  PBCPLE  pictured  at  tub  top  or  this  page  AKE  agents  working  tor  UMCLK  SAM.  THESE  PECPtii 
WERE  DIRECTLY  RESPONSIBLE  FOR  THE  ARRESTS  OF  OUR  17  BROTHERS  AND  SISTERS  IN  flPEENS,  N.T.,  CN  TUS 
WILKINS-IOLTNC  ASSASSINATION  SOT-UP. 

RgADIt.G  FiiOM  LEFT  TC   RIGHT  VE  KNOW  TlUTt 

HC  DNLEY  iJELCH     WAS  ONCll  IN  THE  BLACK  PANTHER  PAOTT  OP  HK<I  TORK.    RE  HAS  INFILTRATED  MINT 
CROUPS  AND  ORGANIZATIONS.   HE  WAS  AN  ACTIVE  KKKBES  OP  THE  JAMAICA  RIFLE  AND  PlbTOL  CLUB,    INC. 

THIS     NBCRESS  HAS  BKEH  SBBi  IN  1BE  COHPAHY  OF  WELCH  AND  DUMCAN.   HJiR  NAME  IS  NOT  KNOWN     BS 
BSPSCIAUT  COOL  WITH  HSR. 

EDWA-iD  HOWLCT'TE.    JR.    WAS  THE  BDOKIE  COP  ASSIGNED  TO  INTILTRATB  THE  JARAICA  KJFLE  AND  PISTOL 
CLUB,    INC.,    THREE  fSABS  AGO,   HE  BBCAHE  TRZ  nCB-PRSSIDKNT  OF  THIS  CLUB,    A  KEKRES  OF  T"S  BCIRD 
OF  DIRSCTORS,    AND  THE  LEADER  OF  THE  JUNIOR  DIVISION  OF  THE  KIFLE  CLUB.    HE  WAS  BCRN  IN   RICHNOND 
VIRGINIA  U  TSARS  AGO.   HB  IS  5'    lOj"  TALL  AND  H»  WCGHS  170  LBS.   HB  SE.WED  T^H  FIVS     liARS  IN  ' 
T!iE  U.S.A.    AIR  FORCE  AND  HE  WAS  STAnCNED  IN  CRESBLAJiD  DURING  A  PART  OF  HIS  TC^7i  OP  DUTY     HE 
HAS  RELATIVES  IN  «JEBNS  AND  BROOKLYN,    N.T.   THIS  MAN  IS  SJCTRatELT  DANGEROUS  TC  ALL  BLACK  PEOPLE. 

RatajBEHj::  THESJE  4  PSOPLa  ARE  SXTRBELI  DANCBROUS:  I J !  J 

PASS  THIS  INPOPJUTICN  ON  WHERE  IT  WILL  DO  30RB  REAL  COODIJll        WATCH  OUT!':      38  COCL;;; 


B  E     COOL 

Then  it  goes  on  to  name  these  people.  Then  it  says : 

REMEMBER!!!  THESE  4  PEOPLE  ARE  EXTREMELY  DANGEROUS  !  !  ! !  ! 
PASS  THIS  INFORMATION  ON  WHERE  IT  WILL  DO  SOME  REAL 
GOOD  ! ! ! !  WATCH  OUT ! ! !  BE  COOL  ! ! ! 

And  then  again  in  big  letters,  "BE  COOL." 

I  interpret  this,  sir,  as  a  call  to  do  away  with  these  four  people  that 
they  believe  will  be  the  witnesses  against  them.  I  don't  know  whether 
they  are  correct  in  this  assmnption,  but  at  least  they  believe  these  are 
the  witnesses,  and  I  believe  this  is  a  call  to  do  away  with  these  people. 

So  I  think  the  chairman's  statement  earlier  concerning  the  Detec- 
tives Wood  and  Hart,  that  they  did  in  fact  get  into  groups  which  are 
potentially  dangerous,  the  groups  that  they  got  into  are  obviously 
quite  well  prepared  to  commit  very  serious  acts  of  violence  against 
those  people  that  they  believe  are  turning  information  over  to  the  Gov- 
ernment against  them. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  34"  follows:) 


1 078    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 
RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  33 — Continued 


f»^T'  V'  >?'!'^'q,  y"»T»A"7~f""'"«"!P» 


Lefky  Probe  Finds  Minutemen  Full  of  lawmen 


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RAM 


Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  A  demonstration  took  place  on  June  1,  1966,  in 
Washin^on  at  the  time  that  the  President  of  the  United  States  called 
the  White  House  conference  on  civil  rights.  A  number  of  the  more 
boisterous  black  nationalist  militant  groups  disrupted  the  White 
House  conference.  One  of  these  groups  was  a  busload  of  people,  ap- 
proximately 30  persons,  who  came  down  from  New  York.  The  bus  was 
paid  for  by  Jesse  Gray's  Community  Council  on  Housing.  The  leaders 
of  the  group  or  the  people  who  headed  the  group  in  the  bus  were 
Jesse  Gray,  Maxine  Green,  who  at  that  point  was  the  secretary  of 
Jesse  Gray,  and  Maxwell  Stanford,  who  was  the  field  secretary  of  the 
Revolutionary  Action  Movement.  Miss  Green  is  now  a  member  of  the 
board  of  directors  of  a  group  called  the  Neighborhood  Backstreet 
Youth. 

In  August  1967  when  Jesse  Gray  came  down  to  Washin^on  carry- 
ing rats  to  demonstrate  against  the  House  of  Representatives,  one  of 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLXJENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 079 

the  members  of  the  group  demonstrating  with  him  advised  the  press 
that  the  demonstrators  represented  two  organizations,  Harlem  Back- 
street Youth  and  Housing  Action  Team.  He  said  Harlem  Backstreet 
Youth  is  supported  by  the  Office  of  Economic  Opportunity. 

The  New  York  Times  reported  on  August  8, 1967,  that  the  Office  of 
Economic  Opportunity  stated  that  $10,633  of  Federal  money  had  been 
given  to  the  Harlem  Backstreet  Youth  which  Miss  Green  was  a  direc- 
tor of.  It  was  later  ascertained  that  Miss  Green's  close  associate  and 
former  employer,  Jesse  Gray,  had  been  put  on  the  payroll  of  this 
organization  at  $50  a  day  as  a  consultant. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  35"  and  retained  in 
committee  files.) 

In  1964  Jesse  Gray  and  Maxine  Green  went  to  Chicago  where  they 
met  with  the  leaders  of  an  organization  called  ACT,  which  I  believe 
we  have  a  background  on  which  will  be  submitted  for  the  record. 
This  is  one  of  the  militant  black  nationalist  groups  that  functions  on 
a  nationwide  basis,  but  primarily  in  Chicago. 

While  in  Chicago  they  participated  with  the  ACT  members  in 
organizing  a  street-comer  meeting  without  a  permit.  They  were  ar- 
rested. The  following  persons  were  arrested :  Marion  Barry,  Stanley 
Branch,  Jesse  Gray,  Maxine  Green,  and  Lawrence  Landry,  who  was 
the  leader  of  ACT. 

Also  in  1964,  in  August,  Mr.  Landry  and  other  members  of  ACT 
came  from  Chicago  and  visited  the  home  of  Maxine  Green  in  New 
York.  So  there  was  a  close  association  between  these  groups. 

In  addition,  the  Student  Nonviolent  Coordinating  Committee  also 
got  into  the  act  in  defense  of  the  RAM  people  who  were  arrested  in 
the  assassination  plot.  H.  Rap  Brown  pledged  at  the  black  power 
conference  in  Newark  that  he  would  undertake  to  raise  the  funds  that 
were  necessary  to  support  the  RAM  members  who  were  arrested. 

On  August  6,  1967,  he  came  into  New  York  and  made  a  speech  on 
a  street  comer  in  Queens  organized  by  the  Friends  of  the  Sixteen 
Accused.  There  is  a  variation  on  the  number  16  and  17  because  16 
were  arrested  in  New  York  and  Max  Stanford  was  arrested  in 
Philadelphia. 

In  the  course  of  this  speech  he  made  on  the  street  corner  Rap  Brown 
said  the  following : 

America  has  made  that  infinitely  clear,  that  the  only  thing  we  respect  is  armed 
forces — Plainfield,  New  Jersey.  The  only  reason  that  Plainfield  was  successful — 
and  it  is  the  most  successful  rebellion  today,  was  only  one  tragedy,  the  honky  cop. 

May  I  interject  at  this  point,  sir,  that  the  policeman  that  was  mur- 
dered in  Plainfield  during  the  riot  had  gone  out  on  a  police  call  to 
intercept  a  gi^oup  of  white  youths  who  were  going  to  throw  Molotov 
cocktails  into  the  homes  of  Negroes.  He  succeeded  in  intercepting 
this  group  and  turned  them  back  and  sent  them  home  when  he  was 
attacked  from  the  rear  by  the  Negro  riot  group  and  was  beaten  to 
death  and  shots  were  fired  into  his  body. 

Rap  Brown  goes  on  to  say : 

And  the  reason  that  they  are  successful  was  because  they  were  armed  and  the 
honky  pointed  it  out  every  time  he  talked.  He  said  them  niggers  got  46  weapons 
over  there.  We  ain't  going  to  take  'em — we  can't  do  that,  we're  going  to  negotiate. 
They  control  their  community — control  your  community  is  important.  *  *  * 


88-083  O— 68— pt. : 


1  080    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Then  later  in  the  same  speech  he  went  back  to  this  theme  and  he 
said  that — 

the  only  example  of  true  control  will  be  the  time  when  we  were  in  Plainfield, 
when  they  had  the  weapon,  and  that  stands  for  me,  that  before  you  could 
address  yourself  to  controlling  internally  you  would  have  to  keep  the  external 
forces  off.  And  the  only  way  you  could  do  that  is  to  arm  yourself. 

The  only  reason,  in  case  you  didn't  know — the  only  reason  that  the  National 
Guardsmen,  State  troopers,  and  the  honky  cops  didn't  go  into  Plainfield  and 
shoot  up  everybody  was  because  the  brothers  had  46  automatic  weapons.  Each 
one  of  them  shoot  9,000  times  and  chunk  bricks  for  a  half  hour.  And  I  don't 
care  if  they  control  it  today — they  controlled  that  community  and  they  did  it 
because  they  were  armed.  So  it  seems  to  me,  brothers,  you  may  have  to  begin 
to  adjust  yourself  on  how  we  can  control  our  community,  because,  as  I  said 
before,  the  man  is  escalating  his  war  against  blacks.  He  is  escalating — he  is 
stepping  up  his  move  to  get  black  people  and  he's  gonna  get  everybody  in  that 

lir>p        ♦      ^      ^ 

So,  we  have  had  this  kind  of  agitation  by  SNCC  people  as  well  as 
the  other  groups  in  New  York  City. 

Mr,  Watson.  Mr.  Eomerstein,  do  you  know  the  sentence  Max  Stan- 
ford received  when  he  was  indicted  for  the  attempts  to  destroy  the 
Statue  of  Liberty  and  also  the  Washington  Monument  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  No,  sir.  Stanford  was  not  one  of  the  defendants 
in  that  group. 

Mr.  Watson.  He  was  not? 

Mr.  Eomerstein.  No,  sir.  He  was  a  defendant  in  the  assassination 
plot  against  T^Hiitney  Young  and  Eoy  Wilkins. 

Mr.  Watson.  So  we  can  get  it  in  context,  '\Yliitney  Young  and  Eoy 
Wilkins  are  responsible  Negro  leaders.  They  are  Negroes,  are  they 
not? 

Mr.  Eomerstein.  Yes,  sir,  they  are  Negroes. 

Mr.  Watson.  Eap  Brown,  of  course,  and  his  group  organized  a 
group  to  provide  bond  money  and  lawyers  and  everything  else  to 
defend  these  people  who  plotted  to  kill  their  own  Negroes? 

Mr.  Eomerstein.  Yes,  sir;  and  they  plotted  to  kill  them  pursuant 
to  previous  statements  by  EAM  that  it  would  be  necessary  to  kill  the 
people  that  they  call  "house  niggers,"  that  is,  tliose  Negroes  who  are 
part,  of  the  community  and  are  responsible  and  respected  in  the 
community. 

The  Chairman.  At  this  point,  in  the  light  of  Eap  Brown's  actions, 
don't  you  think  that  SNCC  should  change  their  name  by  calling 
themselves  the  Nonstudent  Violence  Coordinating  Committee? 

Mr.  Eomerstein.  Yes,  sir.  I  think  that  might  be  a  suggestion.  This 
is  typical,  though,  of  these  types  of  movements,  to  have  names  which 
are  directly  contradictory  to  what  they  are  planning  to  do. 

The  Viet  Cong  in  South  Vietnam  call  themselves  the  National 
Liberation  Front  Avhen  in  fact  they  want  to  enslave  the  people. 

This  is  a  copy  of  the  publication  of  the  Communist  International 
Union  of  Students  from  Prague,  Czechoslovakia,  dated  Summer  1067, 
and  it  i-eports  the  following : 

The  Student  Nonviolent  Coordinating  Committee  (NCC)  [sic]  has  made 
an  appeal  to  Afro-Asian  delegations  of  the  United  Nations  for  help  against  "un- 
warranted and  brutal  suppression"  of  Americain  tsicl  Negroes  by  police. 

Mr.  James  Foreman,  SNCC's  director  of  international  affairs,  said:  "This 
is  an  appeal  in  the  form  of  direct  and  indirect  pressure  on  the  United  States 
Government." 

The  appeal  was  made  following  the  recent  brutal  attack  on  Negro  communi- 
ties by  police  in  several  states  of  the  country. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1  081 

Of  course  this  has  reference  to  the  riot  situation  when  police  had  to 
move  in  and  quell  the  riots.  We  have  had  before  in  1964  and  now  again 
this  attempt  to  create  a  situation  at  the  United  Nations  where  perhaps 
the  U.N.  will  move  in  and  investigate  the  situation  in  the  United 
States.  In  particular  this  was  an  appeal  to  the  Afro- Asian  delegation 
to  move  this  issue  into  the  United  Nations. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  36"  appears  on  pp. 
1082,1083.) 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Another  group  that  has  been  involved  in  the  de- 
fense of  the  RAM  people  is  a  group  that  actually  calls  itself  the  Mau 
Mau  Society.  This  is  headed  by  a  man — well,  his  real  name  is  Charles 
Morris.  Wlien  he  was  a  Black  Muslim  he  was  called  Charles  37X.  He 
now  calls  himself  Charles  Kenyatta  after  Jomo  Kenyatta,  the  former 
head  of  the  Mau  Mau  in  Kenya,  now  head  of  the  Government  in 
Kenya. 

Charles  Morris  has  a  long  record  of  arrests  and  convictions  for  var- 
ious criminal  activities,  including  a  sentence  of  5  to  7  years  for  rob- 
bery. He  had  a  case  involving  impairing  the  morals  of  a  minor.  He 
got  a  discharge  from  the  United  States  Army  for  AWOL  and  escaped 
from  confinement  and  so  on. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  37"  follows:) 

Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  37 

The  arrest  record  from  the  Police  Department  of  the  City  of  New  York  revealed 
the  following  concerning  Charles  Morris : 


Date  of  Arrest 

Place  of  Arrest 

Charge 

Disposition 

X  7-2-37 

X  11-9-38   __    __ 

Raleigh, 

N.C.S.Pr. 
Burlington,  N.C- 
Raleigh,  N.C__. 
USDS  Camp 

Rodon,  Ga. 

Bronx 

Ilonsebreak 

Larc[eny]. 

Larceny     __ 

8  Mos. 

90  days. 
5-7  yrs. 
Disch. 

Dismissed. 

X 

Robbery 

X  12/22/44 

4/29/57___ 

Att.  Aslt 

Att.  Mutiny 

Disrespect  officer 

AWOL 

Escape  confinement. 

1897  PL  [Penal  Law] 
[carrying  and  use  of 
dangerous  weapons]. 

Impairing  Morals 

1851  PL  [Penal  Law] 
Asslt.  3rd  [resisting 
public  officer  in  per- 
formance of  his 
duty]. 

11/28/59 

Bronx.-  

D.O.R.  [Dis- 

X 4/29/65 

Manh 

charged  on 
own  recogni- 
zance]. 
[  Reduced  to  dis- 

orderly con- 
duct]. 

1082    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  36 


SO^^f^ 


No.  13  —  14,  1867 


ne\A/s 
service 


Union  Internationale  des  Etudianti 


lUS  OBSERVES  DAY 
OF  SOLIDARITY  WITH 
SOUTH  AFRICAN  PEOPLE'S 
STRUGGLE 

A  wave  of  protests  hits  South 
Korea 

lUS  representative  visits 
Turkey 

Students  condemn  Israeli 
aggression 

An  appeal  against  repression 
of  American  Negroes 

Education  and  culture 

New  officers 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1083 


RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  36 — Continued 


AN  APPEAL  AGAINST  SUPPRESSION 
OF  AMERICAN  NEGROES 


The  Student  Nonviolent 
Coordinating  Committee 
(NCC)  has  mdde  an  appeal 
to  Afro-Asian  delegations 
of  the  United  Nations  for 
help  against  "unwarranted 
and  brutal  suppression"  of 
Americaln  Negroes  by  police. 

Mr.  James  Foreman,  SNCC's 
director  of  international 


affairs,  said:  "This  Is  an 
appeal  in  the  form  of  direct 
and  indirect  pressure  on  the 
United  States  Government." 

The  appeal  was  made 
following  the  recent  brutal 
attack  on  Negro  communities 
by  police  in  several  states 
of  the  eountry. 


Published  by  tbe  International  Union  of  Students,  Vocelova  3,  Prague  2 
Czechoslovakia. 


1  084    SUBVERSIVE  mELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  This  is  from  a  statement  that  Charles  Kenyatta, 
real  name  Charles  Morris,  made  on  June  22,  1967,  to  a  group  of  re- 
porters who  were  standing  outside  the  courthouse  during  the  arraign- 
ment of  the  RAM  people  w'ho  were  arrested  in  connection  with  that 
case. 

He  was  asked,  "Is  there  a  Revolutionary  Action  Movement  in  this 
comitry  ? "  He  answered,  "There  is  no  one  organization  planning  rev- 
olution. The  entire  country  is  in  a  revoluntionary  period  now."  He  was 
asked  what  he  thought  of  the  plot  to  assassinate  Roy  Wilkins  and 
Wliitney  Young.  He  said,  "Roy  Wilkins  can't  go  among  his  own 
people  now.  Wliitney  Young  can't  go  among  his  own  people  now. 
It  would  be  a  waste  of  time  to  kill  them." 

He  was  asked,  "Wliat  about  Martin  Luther  King?" 

"The  people  are  beginning  to  accept  Martin  Luther  King  since  he 
has  changed." 

He  was  asked  about  riots.  He  said,  "There  is  no  such  thing  as  riots." 

Mr.  AsHBRooK.  What  people  do  you  think  he  meant  there  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  I  think  he  was  referring  to  the  people  who  thought 
the  way  he  did,  the  black  nationalists.  All  of  these  groups,  the  Com- 
munists and  black  nationalists,  have  a  tendency  to  speak  of  themselves 
as  if  they  represented  the  majority  of  the  American  people.  In  fact, 
they  represent  a  very  tiny  minority. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  What  is  the  date  on  this  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN".  This  is  June  22, 1967. 

He  was  asked  about  riots.  He  said,  "There  is  no  such  thing  as  riots. 
A  revolution  is  when  what's  at  top  has  to  go  to  the  bottom."  He  was 
asked,  "Do  you  believe  in  assassination  ?  Do  you  think  it  is  necessary  ?" 
He  said,  "You  use  any  means  necessary." 

He  was  asked,  "Is  assassination  necessary  ?" 

He  answered,  "How  did  Stalin  get  to  the  top  ?  How  did  Mao  Tse- 
tung  get  to  the  top  ?  Long  live  Mao  Tse-tung.  People  in  the  country 
are  scared  of  revolution  and  they  do  anything  to  suppress  it." 

He  was  asked,  "Do  the  Mau  Mau  possess  weapons  f 

He  replied,  "The  only  way  to  gain  freedom  is  tlirough  the  barrel 
of  a  gun,"  which  is  a  paraphrase  of  a  Mao  Tse-tmig  quote  that  power 
comes  out  of  the  barrel  of  a  gun. 

They  asked,  "Did  you  say  that  Negro  youth  must  take  the  macliete 
and  slay  moderate  NegTo  leaders?" — because  Charles  Kenyatta  fre- 
quently runs  around  the  streets  wearing  a  machete. 

He  said,  "They  must  take  machetes  and  destroy  Uncle  Toms.  When 
the  Government  does  not  represent  the  people,  the  people  must  rise 
up  and  oveithrow  the  Government." 

He  was  asked,  "Do  you  personally  know  the  RAM  people  that  were 
arrested?"  He  said,  "Do  I  personally  know  them,  they  are  my 
brothers." 

This  is  a  picture  taken  during  the  April  15  Spring  Mobilization 
[against  the  war  in  Vietnam]  demonstration  in  New  York.  This  was 
of  a  group  called  the  Black  United  Action  Front  which  led  a  dem- 
onstration away  from  the  main  line  of  march  and  eventually  got 
into  an  altercation  with  the  police.  Pictured  in  the  demonstration 
and  walking  side  by  side  are  James  Haugbton,  William  Epton  of 
the  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  both  wearing  dark  glasses,  and 
Charles  Kenyatta  dressed  in  a  helmet  liner  and  uniform  of  sorts. 
At  this  point  he  did  not  have  his  machete  with  him, 

(Photograph  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  38"  follows:) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1085 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  38 


[No.  1,  James  Haughton;  No.  2,  William  Epton;  and  No.  3,  Charles  Kenyatta] 


Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  During  the  black  power  conference  in  Newark  he 
and  his  other  members  carried  their  machetes.  It  was  his  group  that 
invaded  a  press  conference  during  the  black  power  conference  and  beat 
up  some  of  the  white  reporters  that  were  present. 

Here  he  was  walking  together  with  Bill  Epton.  He  has  been  closely 
associated  with  Epton  and  the  Progressive  Labor  people  in  some  of 
these  activities. 

This  is  another  poster  that  was  put  up  on  walls  in  Harlem,  "Charles 
Kenyatta."  It  says,  "Let's  Use  Black  Force  Now!"  It  is  headed  Mau 
Mau  Society. 

It  carries  a  picture  that  purports  to  be  Lyndon  Johnson.  It  quotes 
Johnson  as  saying  "Niggers  ain't  dy'n  fast  'nuff  in  Viet  Nam !  But 
we'll  do  better  m  the  Mid-East!"  The  answer,  "IF,  'WE'  LET 
HIM ! ! !"  The  implication  being,  of  course,  that  there  was  some  con- 
nection between  the  Middle  East  war  between  Israel  and  the  Arab 
countries  and  the  war  in  Vietnam — and  this  was  opposing  both.  That 
Lyndon  Johnson  is  deliberately  trying  to  kill  black  people,  and  Arabs, 
in  the  case  of  the  Middle  East  war.  Once  again  we  find  the  grotesque 
type  of  lies  being  told  by  these  people. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  39"  follows :) 


1086    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  39 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1087 


RoMERSTEiN  EXHIBIT  No.  39 — Continued 


1  088    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  There  is  a  leaflet  distributed  this  past  summer  by 
the  Mau  Mau  Society  in  Harlem.  It  is  called  concentration  camps 
FOR  HARLEM.  Let  me  explain  what  was  actually  happening. 

Mt.  Morris  Park,  which  is  a  park  in  the  center  of  Harlem,  is  having 
a  swimming  pool  built  for  the  Negro  children  for  next  summer.  In 
the  course  of  building  the  pool  they  put  a  large  fence  around  the 
earthmoving  equipment  and  excavation.  It  reads : 

HAVE  YOU  WALKED  BY  OR  THROUGH  MT.  MORRIS  PARK,  LATELY? 
IF  YOU  HAVE  NOT,  THEN  YOU  SHOULD  TAKE  A  WALK  UP  THAT  WAY 
RIGHT  NOW.  IT  WILL  BE  THE  FIRST  TIME  IN  YOUR  LIFE  THAT  YOU 
WILL  BE  ABLE  TO  SAY  THAT  YOU  HAVE  SEEN  A  CONCENTRATION 
CAMP  UNDER  CONSTRUCTION.  .  .  "UNDER  OPEN  CONSTRUCTION" 
FOR  THAT  IS  WHAT  IS  NOW  UNDER  CONSTRUCTION  IN  MT.  MORRIS 
PARK,  A  CONCENTRATION  CAMP  FOR  "YOU".  I  KNOW  THAT  YOU  WILL 
NOT  BELIEVE  IT.  YOU  WILL  NOT  BELIEVE  IT  EVEN  AFTER  YOU  SEE 
THE  FENCES  YOURSELVES.  YOU  WILL  SAY  THAT  THERE  IS  NOTHING 
SINISTER  ABOUT  BUILDING  A  FENCE  AROUND  THE  PARK.  THE  FACT 
THAT  THE  PARK  ALREADY  HAS  A  FENCE  HAS  NOTHING  TO  DO  WITH 
IT.  THE  FACT  THAT  THE  EXISTING  FENCE  IS  NOW  BEING  SUR- 
ROUNDED BY  AN  8  FOOT  CHAIN  LINK  FENCE  WILL  NOT  IMPRESS 
YOU  AT  ALL.  THE  FACT  THAT  THIS  CHAIN  LINK  FENCE  IS  ALSO  BEING 
USED  TO  QUARTER  OFF  SECTION  WITHIN  THE  PARK  ITSELF  WILL 
MEAN  NOTHING  EITHER.  BUT  IF  YOU  HAVE  EVER  SEEN  PICTURES  OF 
CONCENTRATION  CAMPS,  IF  YOU  HAVE  EVER  SEEN  OR  BEEN  IN  AN 
ATMY  [SIC]  STOCKADE,  YOU  WILL  RECOGNISE  THE  CONSTRUCTION  IN 
MT.  MORRIS  PARK  TO  BE  WHAT  IT  IS,  THE  PARK  IS  BEING  CONVERTED 
INTO  A  CONCENTRATION  CAMP  COMPLETE  WITH  COMPOUNDS. 
LIGHTS  ARE  BEING  INSTALLED  THAT  WILL  TURN  NIGHT  INTO  DAY 
AS  FAR  AS  THE  PARK  IS  CONCERNED.  THE  GUN  TOWERS  WILL  BE  OF 
THE  PORTABLE  TYPE  AND  WILL  NOT  BE  PUT  UP  UNTIL  YOU  ARE 
BEING  DRIVEN,  LIKE  CATTLE,  INTO  YOUR  FINALE  [SIC]  DETAINMENT 
PLACE. 

This  is  utter  nonsense. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  40"  appears  on  p. 
1089.) 

Mr.  Watson.  Is  that  circulated  in  any  appreciable  quantity  or 
what  is  the  printing?  Is  it  done  by  the  Tri-Line  Offset  printing  out- 
fit? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Tliis  was  mimeographed  in  a  few  hundred  copies 
and  handed  out  on  street  corners  in  Harlem.  It  is  not  the  only_example. 
There  are  many  such  very  inflammatory  things. 

I  will  try  to  conclude.  One  group  was  called  the  Committee  to  Save 
Negro  Lives  in  Foreign  and  Domestic  Battlefields.  This  one  claimed 
that: 

We  have  a  germicidal  case  going  on  in  which  live  tuberculosis,  cancer,  other 
contagious  germs,  in  food  sugar,  etc.,  poisonoius  gas  were  forced  into  a  window 
to  contaminate  and  cause  the  death  of  a  whole  family.  *  *  *  These  germs  were 
even  given  on  a  frankfuter  [sic]  in  the  Jamaica  store  *  *  *. 

This  goes  on  to  say  that  there  is  a  plot  by  the  white  people  to  poison 
and  kill  all  the  Negroes  by  infecting  them  with  germs. 

This,  sir,  is  basically  the  kind  of  material  that  is  currently  being 
distributed  in  the  Harlem  area. 

(Document  marked  "Romerstein  Exhibit  No.  41"  appears  on  p. 
1090.) 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1089 

ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  40 


"^r.'C-^NTHATICK   CAXPS   FCR  HARI-EK 
\ 


THEODORE  ,  CO-CMA 1  un.iN  , 

ajfi**  7tR  /.re*  l!a.fl,,..*,  K.r# 


Hi-.Vi  you  -..-ALKSD  BY  OR  ThKO'JJK  Kf ,  KJ.'-..^I5  PARK,  UiTiiLy ;  I?  Yv'".!  KaV),  KOC, 
THJiN  YOC  ShOULD  TAKE  A  UliLK  UP  THAI  ■.VAY  RIGHT  NOh.  IT  WILL  B3  TK£  yiPSr  Ti- 
KK  IN  YOUS  IIFL  THAT  YOU  WILL  Bii  ABLE  TO  CAY  TKaT  IC'J  KAV2  Sl-Jf?  A  CC.NCt,NVO;.- 
TIOK   f^/.I-.F  Ura;:i?   CONSTRUCTION.., "UNDiJR   Crj't:  CCKSTOTCTEON"      FOP   TPAT    IJ    .•■.-•.  .' 

IS  NOW  u::r;i:;i^  consthuction  in  mt..  moakis  pap.x,  a  cc?:cj;:i7r«tiok  u,.j-  fv-h  "y:-.- 

1    KNOV;   THAT   liZ    .(ILL   NOT   BELISVb   IT..  YOL'   WILL  HOT  BlXir-zt    ri.-   uvr.f    ,t-i-«..T    -c,' 
3EK  TKK  FjiKCiL.ii.  YOURSELVES..     YOO  WILL  SAY  THAT   THERE  IS  NOTHING   3;M:'..R  mS- 
OUT  BUILCIKG  A  FENCE  AROUND  THE  Pi'JK.   THE  FmCT  THAT  THE   F.-RK   ALREA'Y    f^..-:;    .-. 
lEI.'CE  K/iS   KOTHIWG  TO  LO  »ITH   IT.    THt  FACT   THAT   TPE  EXJ^I^JTING   -^.r-Ci.  IS  NOV 
BEING   SURROUNDED  BT  AN  ,8   FOOT  ClinlH  LISK  FENCE  WILL  NOT  FMFRESS   YO'o    AT    AIL. 
TKK  FACT   TH.vT  THIS   CHAIN   LINK   ?iHC£   IS  ALSO  BEING   USED   70    vl'"i'Ti:R   O.-F   St'C?- 

lON  ■,;iThi:;  the  park  itsklf  will  miihN  nothing  either,  hut  if  you  rave  ever 

SEEN  pictures  OF -CONCENTRATION  CAMPS,  IF  YOU  H«VE  EVER  SEEN  03  PE.-;N  It-  AN 
AT:-:Y  STOCKADE,  YOU  WILL  RECOGNISE  THE  CONoTRUCTIGN  IN  MT.  KORRIS  PARK  TO 
BE  WKiiT  IT  IS,  THE  PARK  IS  BEING  CONVERTED  l.NTO  A  CONCENTRATION  C/M?  CCK- 
PLETE  r.ITH  CONPCUNDS,  LIGHTS  ARE  BEING  INST/iLLED  T;iAT  KILL  TUx<N  NIGHT  INTO 
DAY  i.h   FAR  A3  THK  PARK  IS  CCNCESNEP.  THE  GUN  TOWERS  ..ILL  BE  OF  THE  FORTAlLE 
TYPE  «;D  will  not  B£   PUT  UP  UNTIL  YOU  mRE  BEING  DPIVEf:  ,  IlilE  C.ITTLE ,  INTO 
YOUR  FIKALE  Di:TAINMi:;NT  PUiCE. 

yOI!  >!t;ST  UNBiuPiT-ir.E-THAT  THESi;  -BEASTS  ARi-  OUT  TO  EXTERMIW.'.Ti;  i'OU.  YOV 
MU.TT  C02-IE  O^J'I  OF  THOSE  CIOJRCHES  AND  ThE  TRICK  BAG  OF  RELIGION,  ALL  RELIGIC;:  , 
iJit>  ;•„••;,,  THAT  THlC  FIGHT  IS  HERE.  "NOW".  THE  BET  DEFENSE  IS  OFFENSE.  WE  rOJST 
DESTROY  THIS  CONCENTRATION  CAMP  BEFORE  THE  BEAST  COMPLETES  IT  J  V/E  MUST  RIP 
DOWN  THE  FENCES  AND  BURN  THE  POSTS  AND  IF  THE  BEAST  RYS  TO  STOP  US  THEN  V.E 
MUST  BURN  Hir:  TOi  DON'T  LET  THIS  ANAMAL  INSULT  YOUR  INTELLIGENCE  IN  THIS 
WAY.  HE  IS  SAYING  TO  YOU  THAT  YOU  ARE  TOO  IGNORANT  TO  ICNOW  HRi.T  IS  GoING 
ON  E\^EN  WHEN  YOU  SEE  IT  COMING.  HE  IS  BUILDING  AN  CONCENTRATION  CAMP  RIGHT 
IN  THE  CENTSR  OF  THE  BLACK  COMMUNITY  AND  GETTING  AWAY  WITH  IT,  CAN  YOU  SET 
BY  AND  LET  IT  HAPPEN?  IS  THIS  THE  WAY  TO  BLaCK  PO.iER?  WAKE  UP  AND  LIVE.  OR 
WILL  YOU  BE  LUCE  THE  JiTiWS  IN  NAZI  GERMANY  WHO  DID  NOT  BELIEVE  IT  WAS  GOING 

TO  Happen  to  them  until  it  happened? 

CHAIR2I/J1,  CHARLES  KENYATTh ,  HAS  BUILT  THE  MAU  KAU  SOCIETY  TO  OBSERVE, 
V-ARN  ;.i^D  DEFEND,  THE  MAU  MAU  HAVE  OBSERVED,  THEY  ARE  NOW  V/ARNING,  THEY  WILL 
DEFEND  AS  BE-ST  THEY  CAN.  BUT,  THE  OVER-hLL  DEFENSE  IS  THE  JOB  OF  EVERYONE 
IN  THE  BLACK  CM-iMUNITY.  SObS  OF  YOU,  LIKE  I  SAID,  HILL  NOT  BELIEVE.  MANY  OF 
YOU  WILL  NOT  BJELIEVE  EVEN  A3  YOU  WALK  INTO  THE  GAS  CHAMBERS,  IN  FACT,  MANY 
OF  YOU  r/ILL  h^VRCH  INTO  THOSE  CHAMBERS  WITH  YOUR  BIBLES  CLUTCHED  TO  YOUR 
BREASTS  SINGING  "  WE  SHALL  OVER  COME."  THAT  IS  NO.  JOKE,  I  "WSIH  THAT  IT  WAS 
A  JOKE,  UNFORTUNATELY  THOUGH,  IT  IS  A  FACT,.  - 

NO  CONCENTRATION  CAMPS  IN  HARLEM:  ffEAR  IT  DOWN  NOW{.  WORLD  REVOLUTION  Tffi- 
ROUGH  BLACK  EVOLUTION.. .MENTAL  EVOLUTION..^  WAKE  UP  AND  ACT  NOWl  TOMORROW 
MAY  BE  TOO  LATEl 


1090    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


ROMERSTEIN  EXHIBIT  No.  41 

MURDERERS  MURDErtE.^S 

THE  V/HITE  :.'.*-N    'ND   CRIJ.'.ES   !~0E5  UNFUNI SHEO    'ND  THE  DL'aCi-N   GOES  TO 
J'lL. 

C'NCER   'ND   TUBERCULOSIS   C-E.T.  :s  GIVEN    1.'   FOOD    IN  ?JEO;iO    'RE. 
Senator  Thsyler    is    right    the  Slackmar.   a   Puerto  Ricj.ns    ar^   Guin' 


pios   nere 


Dear  Friends  and  Neighbors, 


V/e  are  faced  with  a  tragic  situation  within  our  neighborhood. 
Since  the   effects  are  injurious  to  you  at  a  v/hole^  ycu  should  clos'sly 
read  this  report. 

V/e  have  a  gernncid?.!  cpse  going  on  in  v;hich  live  tuberculosis, 
cancer,  other  contagious  gems,  in  food  sugar,  etc.,  poisonous  gas 
v/ere  forced  into  a  window  to  contaninpte  rnd  cause  the  desth  of  a 
whole  family.   Children  have  been  af  ected  by  th-;  germ  which  h^s  beur. 
distributed  by  the  police  in  the  103rd  precinct  in  Quser.s  and  police 
in  other  areas.   These  gernis  v;ere  even  given  on  a  frankfuter  in  the 
Ja/.'.aica  store  ''.nd  in  New  Yorlc.   Do  you  want  to  sit  still  and  '-/S  rnur-- 
deref'  by  your  loc^l  police?  The  case  is   nov/  in  Federal  Court,  but 
the  witnesses  have  been  threatened  evea  before  t-ie  trial  begins. 

The  case  involves  the  c?.s'tration  of  a  Nsgro  wop.?a  v.-ho  v;as  photo- 
graphed illegally  in  the  nude  and  placed  under  hypnosis,  drug  sd.  "is 
FBI,  San  Francisco  and  New  York  .oiics  -re  involved  in  this  case,   "c 
get  at  one  person  they  contaainated  the  v;ater  in  a  v/hole  Negro  area 
and  caused  the  death  of  residents.   These  -of^ricials  ?re  also  bucc.ini] 
homes  ^nd  illegally  wire  tapping  while  you  must  oay  for  a  private  plirins 
call  in  the  Negro  community,   "'ll  of  this  is  illegal.   The  racist 
police   have  used  impersonators  v/ho  force   black  woman  to  be  photrijrav? 
graphed  for  pictures  to  discredit  Negro  V'omanhood.  'V.'here  is  the  v/h  tc  ■ 
man's  pictures  of  his  sister  or  his  -lother  in  this  condition.  Do  vre  '  • 
have  to  allow  these  pictures  shov/n  to  our  youth  in  the  area  by  the  r^ciic 
to  discredit  this  woman  ^nd  her  before  she  ;Ocs  to  court?  How  long  ^'il.l 
you  be  foiled  as  a  people  to  discredit  your  brothers  'nd  sisters  wh'.le 
the  whiteman  laughs  at  the  games  he  is  playing  on  you?   In  the  ISCG 
riots  in  East  New  York,  a  Negro  boy  v/ho  v/as  later  freed,  v;as  accused 
of  a  crime  that  was  committed  by  a  policeman's  gun.  Bl^'Ck  man,   awakf 
and  expose  the  villi ans  if  those  pcitures  are  shown.   Demand  an  in- 
vestigation by  your   civil  rights  leaders.  And  demand  that  the  pictui'ns 
be  shown  to  the  accused.   Der.i?n  th^t  the  law  be  enforce  for  the 
guilty.   Jews  and  V.'hite  business'..-;en  have  wi-.>ed  germs  or.  food  for  th-; 
police.   Boycott  Stores  and  Hitlerism  Herd 

For  further  information  Call:  (Don't  re-elect  Senator 

Javits) 
CQViMITTEi:   TO    S,\VZ  NEGOR  LU^IS    IN   FOR?.!  GN 
,'JJD  D(:>f.l!iSTIC  D'TTLF.FIEDS. 

Recall      Dist.    'tt. 

Thomas  u'ackell    -  Ram  Case 

is    a   fraud. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 091 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  I  notice  you  say  "currently." 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir. 

Mr.  AsHBROOK.  I  think,  Mr.  Chairman,  if  there  is  anything  that  is 
obvious  from  these  hearings  it  is  that  Conmiunist  radicals  bent  on  an- 
archy and.  killing  are  operating  at  the  present  time.  We  have  examined 
the  1964  riots.  We  have  examined  the  effort  to  blow  up  the  Statue  of 
Liberty.  I  think  what  Mr.  Romerstein  is  pointing  out  is  particularly 
cogent ;  this  is  going  on  currently,  at  the  present  time.  It  is  obvious 
from  the  evidence  these  people  have  plans ;  they  have  their  own  arms. 
Above  all  they  have  no  scruples  against  violence,  murder,  and  inciting 
others  to  riot.  I  think  they  certainly  represent  a  clear  and  present  dan- 
ger which  has  been  highlighted  in  these  2  days  of  very  forceful  testi- 
mony by  the  Detectives  Hart  and  Wood  and  Mr.  Romerstein.  I  think 
they  should  be  commended  for  the  work  they  have  done  in  bringing 
this  to  the  attention  of  the  American  people. 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Sir,  may  we  enter  into  the  record  the  background 
reports  prepared  by  the  research  staff  on  the  Harlem  Defense  Council, 
a  front  for  Progressive  Labor;  the  Committee  to  Defend  Resistance 
to  Ghetto  Life,  another  front  for  Progressive  Labor ;  Mothers'  Defense 
Committee,  a  Progressive  Labor  front;  and  the  Harlem  Solidarity 
Committee,  which  was  a  combination  of  a  number  of  organizations. 
It  has  the  participation  of  both  Progressive  Labor  and  some  of  the 
Trotskyite  groups  such  as  the  Spartacists,  Jesse  Gray's  Community 
Council  on  Housing,  and  Charles  37X's  Mau  Mau  Society. 

Mr.  Smith.  I  request  permission  to  accept  all  of  these  documents 
used  by  Mr.  Romerstein  for  the  record. 

The  Chairman.  The  documents  will  be  accepted  for  the  record. 

(Documents  marked  "Committee  Exhibits  Nos.  4  through  9,"  respec- 
tively. See  pp.  1093-1097. ) 

Mr.  Watson.  Mr.  Romerstein,  any  responsible,  reasonably  intelli- 
gent person  would  immediately  discount  and  ignore  all  of  this  type  of 
mflammatory,  totally  false  material.  But  unfortunately  we  are  not 
dealing  always  with  people  who  are  able  to  decide  for  themselves  as 
to  whether  or  not  it  is  false  or  true.  You  have  stated  that  this  is  going 
on  now.  Some  would  discount  its  effect.  I  agree  with  my  friend  Mr. 
Ashbrook  that  I  attach  a  lot  of  importance  and  significance  to  it,  and  I 
think  the  American  people  had  better  wake  up  or  else  it  might  be  a  little 
too  late  to  avoid  a  lot  of  heartaches  and  bloodshed. 

Do  you  know  of  any  organization  in  that  area  where  you  have  been 
working  for  a  number  of  years  that  is  actively,  by  way  of  brochures  or 
leaflets  or  anything  else,  trying  to  counteract  and  put  the  big  lie  label 
to  all  of  this  material  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  No,  sir,  I  know  of  no  such  organization  that  has 
engaged  in  such  a  project. 

Mr.  Watson.  Is  it  because  responsible  citizens  in  that  area  are  fear- 
ful of  the  consequences  of  trying  to  take  a  responsible  position  ? 

Mr.  Romerstein.  Sir,  I  think  the  main  reason  is,  as  you  have  pointed 
out,  that  people  have  a  tendency  to  say,  well,  this  stuff  is  so  grotesque 
and  so  obviously  untrue,  how  can  anybody  believe  it.  Responsible 
people  sometimes  feel  it  is  beneath  their  dignity  to  answer  this  type 
of  thing.  Actually,  when  a  crisis  situation  develops  it  is  this  type  of 
untrue  material,  this  type  of  rumor  that  begins  to  start,  that  helps 
create  the  riot  situation. 


1  092    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Mr.  Watson.  There  is  no  question  about  it.  That  could  absolutely 
ruin  and  poison  the  minds  of  people,  and  any  innocent  event  may  trig- 
ger a  tragic  situation.  You  have  pointed  out  one  leaflet  where  they 
showed  the  four  pictures  of  these  people  labeled  dangerous,  and  these 
are  the  ones  supposed  to  testify  against  the  RAM  members  who  at- 
temped  to  assassinate  Wilkins  and  so  forth. 

I  was  wondering  if  perhaps  that  might  contribute  to  the  reticence  or 
reluctance  on  the  part  of  responsible  people  to  try  to  counteract  it  be- 
cause they  feel,  who  knows,  the  next  day  my  picture  will  be  on  one  of 
those  flyers. 

Do  you  think  that  that  might  contribute  to  the  reluctance  on  their 
part  ?  I  mean  fear  from  their  own  people  ? 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir,  it  might  contribute  to  the  reluctance 
of  some  of  the  private  citizens  who  might  take  the  initiative  in  answer- 
ing this.  I  don't  think  it  would  affect  the  police  department.  But  the 
police  department  does  not  answer  this  type  of  thing. 

Mr.  Watson.  The  police  department  is  in  an  impossible  situation. 
They  can  do  nothing  right ;  you  know  that. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  That  is  right.  They  are  made  the  enemy  and 
they  are  the  targets. 

Mr.  Watson.  I  think  the  police  need  a  little  help  from  the  citizens. 
I  don't  know  where  they  are  going  to  get  it.  You  paint  a  rather  grim 
picture  here. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  The  New  York  City  Police  Department,  despite 
the  difficulties  that  all  police  departments  have  in  recruiting  and  so 
on,  have  done  a  remarkably  good  job. 

The  Chairman.  There  is  no  question  about  that  in  light  of  the  rep- 
resentation by  the  witnesses  here  today. 

Mr.  RoMERSTEiN.  Yes,  sir.  They  are  typical  of  what  has  been  called 
the  new  breed  of  police  officer. 

Mr.  Watson.  We  can  bring  it  close  to  home.  The  citizens  are  not 
interested.  Did  you  see  the  picture  in  the  early  edition  of  the  Evening 
Star  yesterday  where  a  man,  totally  nude,  was  walking  here  in  Wash- 
ington, and  two  ladies  came  up  and  two  men  right  beside  him.  This 
is  not  a  racial  matter.  But  the  two  looked  as  if  such  a  scene  were 
an  everyday  occurrence.  If  I  were  there  we  would  not  call  the  police; 
that  man  would  be  dealt  with.  Of  course,  I  would  go  to  jail,  but  he 
would  be  dealt  with  right  then,  and  he  would  have  less  to  show  off 
the  next  day.  And  I  am  not  a  member  of  one  of  these  violent  groups. 

The  Chairman.  Does  that  conclude  your  examination? 

Mr.  Smith.  That  concludes  it,  sir. 

The  Chairman.  The  Chair  wishes  to  make  a  statement. 

It  has  been  said  that  things  were  so  tense  in  Harlem  in  the  summer 
of  1064  that  a  riot  was  lioiind  to  break  out  sooner  or  Inter.  Tliis  may 
be  true.  Again,  it  may  not.  Expert  testimony  received  by  the  sub- 
committee indicates  that  no  one  can  predict  a  riot  with  certainty.  It  is 
possible  to  do  no  more,  after  careful  study,  than  indicate  the  degree 
of  probability  of  a  riot. 

Perhaps  a  riot  would  have  occurred  in  Harlem  some  time  during 
the  summer  of  1964  even  if  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  did  not  exist. 
Based  on  the  testimony  and  evidence  rereivod  during  the  past  2  days, 
however,  I  would  say  that  it  is  highly  improbable  that  a  riot  would 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING   1 093 

have  broken  out  in  Harlem  on  July  18, 1964,  if  the  Progressive  Labor 
Party  did  not  exist  and  if  it  did  not  have  a  Harlem  chapter. 

I  say  this  not  only  because  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Party  rally 
just  a  few  hours  before  the  riot  broke  out  at  which  Bill  Epton  said 
that  policemen  and  judges  would  have  to  be  killed,  but  also  because  of 
all  the  actions  taken  by  the  Progressive  Labor  Party,  and  its  Harlem 
chapter,  over  a  period  of  approximately  2  months  before  the  riot 
broke  out — the  establishment  of  the  Harlem  Defense  Council  to  de- 
velop conflict  in  the  community  and  direct  the  hostility  of  certain 
segments  of  it  against  the  police,  its  concerted  campai^  to  distribute 
highly  inflammatory  racial  and  antipolice  literature  in  the  area,  the 
instruction  given  its  members  in  the  manufacture  of  Molotov  cock- 
tails, and  so  forth. 

I  do  not  believe  there  can  be  doubt  in  the  mind  of  any  reasonable 
person  but  that  these  activities  tended  to — and  were  designed  to — in- 
flame the  community  and  arouse  emotions  to  such  an  intense  pitch  that 
any  number  of  incidents  might  have  touclied  off  a  riot. 

The  Progressive  Labor  Party,  of  course,  was  not  the  only  subversive 
organization  operating  in  the  area.  Other  such  groups  took  actions 
and  distributed  propaganda  which  inflamed  the  community.  The  most 
important  role,  however,  was  clearly  played  by  the  Progressive  Labor 
Party. 

In  my  view,  there  is  no  doubt  but  that  subversive  elements  played 
a  major  and  probably  the  key  role  in  precipitating  the  Harlem  riot 
of  July  1964. 

I  want  to  make  that  statement  in  closing  the  2  days  of  hearings. 

Thank  you  so  much.  This  concludes  today's  hearing. 

The  subcommittee  will  adjourn  subject  to  the  call  of  the  Chair. 

(Whereupon,  at  12 :10  p.m.,  Wednesday,  November  1,  1967,  the  sub- 
committee recessed  subject  to  call  of  the  Chair.) 

(Committee  Exhibits  Nos.  4  through  9,  referred  to  on  p.  1091,  fol- 
low:) 

Committee  Exhibit  No.  4 

HARLEM  DEFENSE  COUNCIL 
336  Lenox  Avenue,  New  York,  N.Y. 

Origin:  June  17, 1964. 

Purpose:  The  Harlem  Defense  Council  (HDC)  was  a  front  group  for  the 

Progressive  Labor  Movement,  now  known  as  the  Progressive 
Labor  Party  (PLP).  The  HDC,  a  creation  of  William  Epton, 
an  open  PLP  official,  was  organized  as  a  "block  by  block  fed- 
eration" of  groups  of  Negroes  for  the  purpose  of  stopping 
alleged  police  brutality.  The  HDC  has  claimed  that  it  organ- 
ized Negroes  to  "intervene  non-violently  to  discourage  brutality 
by  police  officers" ;  however,  "the  possibility  of  self-defense 
in  such  cases"  was  "not  excluded."  The  council's  program 
included  the  furnishing  of  firearms  to  its  affiliates  as  a  "de- 
fensive" measure  against  law  enforcement  officers.  The  HDC 
was  also  formed  for  the  purpose  of  obtaining  recruits  for  the 
PLP. 
This  organization  is  now  defunct. 

Organization :       Small  membership.  Exact  size  unknown. 

The  HDC  operated  out  of  the  headquarters  of  the  Harlem 
branch  of  the  PLP,  which  was  also  used  as  the  office  of  the 
party's  Black  Liberation  Commission. 


1094    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

Key  Leaders:      Cochainnen : 

William  Epton  (Harlem  PLP  leader) 
William  McAdoo  (PLP  official) 

Publications:       No  newspapers  or  periodicals.  HDC  has  issued  posters,  flyers, 
and  other  literature  of  a  highly  inflammatory  nature. 

Activities  :  The  council  has — 

(1)  prepared  and  distributed  literature  creating  hate  and 
distrust  of  law  enforcement  officers,  and  has  dissemi- 
nated propaganda  falsely  charging  police  brutality ; 

(2)  called  for  violence  against  police  and  other  governmental 
authority ; 

(3)  sponsored  unlawful  and  disorderly  demonstrations  in 
which  violence  was  urged  ;  and 

(4)  conducted  training  in  karate  to  be  used  to  "flght  cops" 
under  the  guise  of  "self-defense." 


Committee  Exhibit  No.  5 

COMMITTEE  TO  DEFEND  RESISTANCE  TO  GHETTO  LIFE 
1  Union  Square  West,  Room  617,  New  York,  N.Y. 

Origin:  November  1, 1964. 

Purpose:  The  Committee  to  Defend  Resistance  to  Ghetto  Life  (CERGE) 

was  basically  a  defense  front  for  the  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment (now  known  as  ProgTessive  Labor  Party  (PLP))  and 
its  affiliates.  CERGE  has  claimed  that  it  was  formed  to  "pro- 
tect the  right  to  resist  and  challenge  a  system  that  relegates 
the  black  man  to  third-class  citizenship  in  fourth-class  ghetto 
communities."  CERGE  also  stated  that  it  was  established  to 
"defend  victims  of  police  brutality"  and  the  "victims  of  the 
Grand  Jury  Inquisition"  in  New  York.  (A  New  York  State 
grand  jury,  which  conducted  an  investigation  of  the  July  1964 
riots,  subpenaed  numerous  leaders  of  the  Progressive  Labor 
Party,  some  of  whom  were  subsequently  convicted  of  criminal 
contempt  for  refusing  to  testify.)  CERGE  publicized  cases 
of  alleged  "police  brutality"  and  raised  funds  for  legal  de- 
fense of  police  "victims." 
This  organization  is  now  defunct. 

Organization:       Small  membership.  Exact  size  unknown. 

National  office — see  above-listed  address,  West  Coast  office — 
P.O.  Box  4403,  San  Francisco,  Calif. 

Key  Leaders:  William  McAdoo,  chairman  (PLP  leader)  ;  Sue  Karp,  secretary 
(PLP  member). 

Sponsors:  Carl  and  Anne  Bra  den  (identified  members  of  the  Communist 

Party,  U.S.A.),  Maxwell  Geismar,  Vincent  Hallinan,  LeRoi 
Jones,  Leroy  McLucas,  J.  P.  Morray,  Truman  Nelson,  Marc 
Schleifer,  A.  B.  Spellman,  and  Paul  Sweezy. 

Publications:  No  newspapers  or  periodicals.  CERGE  has  issued  numerous 
leaflets  and  tracts  of  a  highly  inflammatory  nature. 

Activities:  The  committee  has — 

(1)  conducted  fundraising  rallies  for  the  defense  of  Progres- 
sive Labor  Party  leaders ; 

(2)  prepared  and  distributed  literature  in  defense  of  the 
Progressive  Labor  Party ; 

(3)  prepared  and  distributed  literature  in  an  attempt  to 
exploit  Negro  unrest ; 

(4)  prepared  and  distributed  literature  creating  hate  and 
distrust  of  law  enforcement  officers,  and  has  disseminated 
propaganda   falsely   charging   police   brutality ;   and 

(5)  prepared  and  distributed  literature  challenging  govern- 
mental authority  and  attemping  to  discredit  the  grand 
jury  system. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1095 


Origin: 
Purpose: 


Organization  : 

Key  Leaders: 
Publications  : 
Activities: 


Committee  Exhibit  No.  6 

MOTHERS'  DEFENSE  COMMITTEE 
163  West  129tli  Street,  New  York,  N.Y. 

June  1964. 

The  Mothers'  Defense  Committee  was  formed  at  the  instigation 
of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  (now  known  as  Progres- 
sive Labor  Party)  as  a  defense  group  for  six  teenage  Negro 
male  youths  who  liave  been  convicted  for  the  murder  of  Mrs. 
Margit  Sugar,  a  white  shopkeeper,  at  3  West  125th  Street, 
New  York,  N.Y.,  on  April  20,  1964. 
This  organization  is  now  defunct. 

Small  membership.  Exact  size  unknown. 
Membership  included  the  mothers  of  the  teenage  Negroes  con- 
victed of  the  crime  of  homicide. 

Mrs.  Mildred  Thomas,  chairlady  ;  Mrs.  Mary  Hamm,  treasurer. 

None. 

The  committee  has — 

(1)  sponsored  fundraising  rallies  for  the  defense  of  the  six 
Negro  defendants ; 

(2)  sponsored  street  rallies  in  which  members  of  the  commit- 
tee have  made  charges  of  "police  brutality,"  "frame-up," 
and  "police  terror,"  in  connection  with  the  case  ; 

(3)  staged  meetings  for  the  purpose  of  generating  hate  and 
distrust  of  law  enforcement  officers  ;  and 

(4)  functioned  to  undermine  the  American  judicial  system. 


Committee  Exhibit  No.  7 

HARLEM  SOLIDARITY  COMMITTEE 

Origin:  The  Harlem  Solidarity  Committee   (HSC)   was  formed  at  a 

meeting  held  at  40  East  7th  Street  in  New  York  City  on  July 
23,  1964.  The  Spartacists  claim  to  have  initiated  the  group. 

Purpose:  According  to  a  press  releapo  dated  July  25,  1964,  the  purpose 

of  the  HSC  was  "support  of  the  citizens  of  Harlem  and  Bed- 
ford-Stuyvesant  against  police  terror"  under  such  slogans  as 
"Demand  the  removal  of  the  rioting  cops  from  Harlem !"  and 
"Support  the  right  of  the  citizens  of  the  ghetto  to  defend  them- 
selves !" 

Organization  :  Number  of  individual  members,  if  any,  unknown.  Directed 
by  a  coordinator.  Address  unknown ;  telephone  given  as  SC4r- 
6052. 

Supported  as  of  July  25,  1964,  by  the  following :  Brooklyn  Civil 
Rights  Defense  Committee,  Committee  for  Peace  Organiza- 
tion, Jesse  Gray,  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  Spartacist, 
Youth  Against  War  and  Fascism,  and  Liberator  editor  Daniel 
H.  Watts. 

Key  Leader  :         Judy  Weiner,  coordinator. 

Publication:  Only  knovm  publication  was  a  mimeographed  press  release 
dated  July  25,  1964,  and  reportedly  printed  by  Tri-Line  Offset 
Co.  Inc. 

Activities:  The  only  recorded  public  activity  of  the  Harlem  Solidarity 
Committee  was  a  rally  at  8th  Avenue  and  38th  Street  in  the 
garment  center  of  New  York  City  at  noon  on  July  28,  1964,  at 
which  time  there  were  inflammatory  antipolice  speeches  by 
James  Robertson  of  Spartacist,  Conrad  Lynn,  Vincent  Cope- 
land  of  Workers  World,  Milton  Rosen  of  PLM,  Sandra  Rod- 
riguez of  Movimiento  Pro  Independencia  de  Puerto  Rico, 
and  Key  Martin  of  YAWF, 
88-083  O— 68— pt.  2 12 


1 096   SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 


Orioin: 
Purpose: 

Key  Leader: 
Organization: 
Participating 
Organizations  : 

Publications: 
Activities: 


Committee  Exhibit  No.  8 

COMMUNITY  COUNCIL  ON  HOUSING 
6  East  117th  Street,  New  York,  N.Y. 

Early  1960's. 

Organizing  of  every  slum  tenement  in  Harlem  as  a  "political 
pressure  approach  to  socialized  housing"  and  as  an  "organizing 
tool"  that  may  "even  kick  off  the  revolution  in  the  ghetto." 

Jesse  Willard  Gray,  director. 

2,300  in  January  1964. 

Lower  East  Side  Rent  Strike  Committee,^  Bedford- Stuyvesant 
Rent  Strike  Committee,^  Metropolitan  Council  on  Housing. 
No  newspapers  or  periodicals.  CCOH  has  issued  flyers  of  a 
highly  inflammatory  nature. 

(1)  In  December  1963  Jesse  W.  Gray  took  over  the  leader- 
ship of  a  Harlem  rent  strike  which  had  been  in  effect  since 
September.  In  November  1964  Gray's  plans  for  intensified 
rent  strikes  were  reported  in  the  National  Guardian.  He 
reportedly  told  the  Guardian  that  rent  strikes  "  'are  not 
intended  to  solve  the  problems  of  housing  or  of  slums,  but 
to  give  people  in  the  ghetto  a  feeling  that  they  have  some 
power.  *  *  *'  "  [Emphasis  added.] 
held  mass  rallies ; 
held  demonstrations  at  City  Hall ; 

(4)  planned  a  city  wide  Rent  Strike  Coordinating  Committee: 

(5)  agitated  against  the  police  ; 
conducted  "The  World's  Worst  Fair"  in  June  1964. 
On  July  19,  1964,  during  the  Harlem  riots,  CCOH  issued  a 
flyer  entitled  "IS  HARLEM  MISSISSIPPI?"  It  charged 
police  with  the  murder  of  three  children  in  2  weeks  and 
with  "whipping  people's  heads  for  no  reason  all  over  Har- 
lem." The  flyer  made  three  demands : 

1.  Commissioner  Murphy's  resignation 

2.  Indict  Lieutenant  Gilligan  for  murder 

3.  Remove  Armed  Forces  from  Harlem 

Another  flyer  issued  on  about  the  third  day  of  the  riot  called 
on  the  people  to  "ORGANIZE  YOUR  BLOCKS"  so  that  you 
will  be  "in  a  position  to  properly  deal  with  the  enemy."  This 
flyer  carried  the  names  of  the  Community  Council  on  Housing 
and  the  Harlem  Defense  Council.  CCOH  was  to  be  contacted 
for  information  on  a  "MASS  DEMONSTRATION  AT  THE 
UNITED  NATIONS  TO  PRESENT  *  *  *  THE  CASE  OF 
TERRORISM  AND  GENOCIDE  COMMITTED  AGAINST 
BLACK  AMERICANS,  AND  THE  CASE  OF  ORGANIZED 
POLICE  BRUTALITY  THAT  IS  RAMPANT  IN  THE 
UNITED  STATES." 

On  July  25,  1964,  Justice  Charles  T.  Marks,  New  York  State 
Supreme  Court,  New  York  County,  issued  a  temporary  re- 
straining order  preventing  further  demonsitrations  by  the 
Community  Council  on  Housing  and  Jesse  Gray. 

Statements  by  Jesse  Gray: 

the  worker.  february  4,  1964,  p.  7: 

"  'The  police  *  *  ♦  are  the  running  dogs  of  the  slumlords.'  *  *  *" 

WORKERS  WORLD.  FEBRUARY  6,  1964,  p.  1: 

"  'There's  no  law  for  people  up  here,'  said  Jesse  Gray  angrily.  'The  police  work 
only  for  the  landlords.  Blood  is  going  to  flow  if  something  isn't  done.'  " 


(2) 
(3) 


(6) 


»  Formation  announced  In  The  Worker,  1/14/64  :  1,  7. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1097 
THE  WORKER,  FEBRUARY  16,  1964,  p.  2 : 

"the  eviction  tactic  is  a  'conspiracy  between  the  police  department  and  the  slum- 
lords.' " 

THE  WORKER,  FEBRUARY  18,  1964,  p.  6 : 

"  'The  police  *  *  *  did  nothing  about  the  slumlords  who  refuse  to  fix  vio- 
lations,' *  *  *." 

NEW  YORK  TIMES,  JULY  20,  1964,  p.  16: 

Gray  (on  July  19,  during  the  Harlem  riot)  called  for  "  '100  skilled  black 
revolutionaries  who  are  ready  to  die'  to  correct  what  he  called  'the  police  brutality 
situation  in  Harlem.' 

******* 

"  'There  is  only  one  thing  that  can  correct  the  situation,  and  that's  guerrilla 
warfare,'  he  said. 

******!(: 

"Mr.  Gray  said  that  he  was  seeking  platoon  captains,  who  could  each  recruit 
100  men  loyal  to  them." 


Origin: 
Purpose: 


Organization  : 
Key  Leaders: 


Publications: 
Activities: 


Committee  Exhibit  No.  9 

MAU  MAU  SOCIETY 

1964  Seventh  Avenue,  Harlem 

New  York,  N.Y. 

Late  1966  or  early  1967. 

The  Mau  Mau  Society  is  a  tiny  all-Negro  extremist  group  that 
has  apparently  taken  upon  itself  the  task  of  providing  protec- 
tion for  well-publicized  black  power  leaders.  Its  oflScial  emblem 
is  an  octagon  insignia  within  which  is  depicted  a  black  arm 
holding  a  poised  bloody  dagger  and  the  words  "Charles  Ken- 
yatta — Mau  Mau  Soc. — Let's  Use  Black  Force  Now!" 
As  its  name  indicates,  the  group  is  patterned  after  the  famed 
dread  Mau  Mau  tribe  of  Airica  which  is  best  remembered  for 
its  merciless  killing  of  white  settlers  and  missionaries. 

10-20 members  (estimated). 

Charles    {37 X)   Kenyatta    (also  known  as   Charles  Morris), 
chairman 
Theodore  E.  Smith 
Herbert  Spencer 

None. 

The  Mau  Mau  Society  has — 

(1)  acted  as  guards  at  the  Newark,  N.J.,  National  Black 
Power  Conference  (July  1967)  and  forcibly  ejected  white 
newsmen  covering  the  event ; 

(2)  provided  guards  for  various  speaking  engagements  by 
black  power  leaders  in  the  New  York  City  metropolitan 
area ; 

(3)  participated  in  a  small  separate  anti-Vietnam  black  power 
rally  which  coincided  with  the  October  21  "Confrontation" 
at  the  Pentagon  (1967). 


APPENDIX 


The  following  is  a  copy  of  the  Pre-Conventioii  Discussion  Bulletin 
#2  of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement  ^  referred  to  on  p.  965. 

The  Biack  Libebation  Struggle  and  the  Right  To  REvoiiUnoN 

Minutes  of  the  October,  1964  meeting  of  the  National  CO-ordinating  Committee 
of  the  Progressive  Labor  Movement 

PRE-CONVENTION  DISCUSSION  BULLETIN  #  2 

BILL  EPTON: 

Since  the  formation  of  PL  there  has  been  some  criticism  from  various  quarters 
that  we  have  failed  to  come  to  grips  with  the  Negro  question,  and  that  we  have 
failed  to  come  up  with  a  definite  statement  on  it.  Part  of  this  criticism  is  justi- 
fied, because  in  other  areas  of  our  work  we  have  devoted  a  little  more  time,  and 
the  questions  weren't  as  complicated.  We  havent  fought  for  a  meeting  on  the 
Negro  question  in  general.  We  should  fight  for  a  line  even  if  we  can  only  put 
out  segments  of  a  line.  The  next  major  document  we  put  out  should  be  on  the 
Negro  question.  The  criticism  that  we  have  failed  to  come  to  grips  with  the  Negro 
question  is  not  accurate  because  in  our  publications  .  .  many  of  us  have  at- 
tempted to  deal  with  one  or  another  aspect  of  this  question. 

The  main  features  of  the  Negro  question  that  we  must  deal  with  are  1)  the 
role  of  nationalism,  which  is  a  very  strong  current  among  the  Negro  people. 
It  manifests  itself  in  many  ways.  2)  Whether  the  Negro  people  constitute  a 
nation  or  not,  or  what  do  we  mean  by  self-determination.  Does  it  have  to  mean 
nationhood,  or  can  it  mean  some  form  of  autonomy?  Of  course  self-determina- 
tion means  just  that,  that  the  Negro  people  will  determine  themselves  what  they 
want  to  be.  As  communists  we  must  have  an  outline  of  what  we  mean  by  self- 
determination,  and  what  our  line  would  be  on  this  question.  Being  a  vanguard 
means  not  leaving  things  to  chance  and  to  hoping  that  the  Negro  people  will 
choose  the  correct  path.  3)  We  must  also  deal  with  the  question  of  land,  because 
I  don't  think  the  Negro  people  will  take  up  a  real  revolutionary  stand  unless  the 
question  of  land  is  prominent.  4)  The  role  of  the  black  bourgoisie  must  be  thor- 
oughly analyzed  and  evaluated.  5)  What  reform  demands  can  we  present  to 
bring  the  people  into  struggle  against  the  ruling  class?  How  do  we  develop  these 
reformist  demands  into  revolutionary  struggle?  6)  There  is  a  lot  of  discussion 
in  our  community  around  what  the  Negro  people  actually  call  themselves  and 
what  do  they  want  to  be  called. 

I  think  the  report  that  I  presented  is  weak  in  the  sense  that  on  many  of  these 
questions  I  did  not  go  into  detail.  I  don't  think  that  the  main  substance  of  the 
Negro  question  has  drastically  changed  since  the  party  developed  the  line  on 
self-determination,  and  the  right  to  nationhood.  This  report  attempted  to  take 
out  the  essentials  of  Harry  Haywood's  line  .  .  .  and  to  sort  of  bring  it  up  to  date. 

The  six  points: 

1)  The  question  of  nationalism — There  is  almost  no  organized  expression  of 
nationalism  in  the  Negro  community.  Most  of  the  nationalist  organizations  in 
Harlem  have  been  discredited  and  command  no  following  .  .  but  there  is  a  very 
strong  nationalist  current  that  runs  through  the  Negro  community,  and  a 
strong  sentiment  along  these  lines.  This  is  a  healthy,  progressive  and  revolu- 
tionary form  of  nationalism.  I  think  that  what  is  needed  is  a  progressive,  honest 
(and  i  use  this  word  "honest"  quite  correctly,  because  the  people  in  our  com- 


1  The  committee's  copy  of  this  bulletin  was  too  poor  to  photostat.  The  many  misspellings 
and  errors  are  as  they  appear  in  the  original  document. 

1099 


1 100    SUBVERSIVE  TNTLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNINTG 

munity  are  used  to  seeing  corrupt  nationalist  organizations)  and  militant  or- 
ganizations that  could  raise  the  questions  of  joining  the  struggle  with  the  African, 
Asian  and  Latin  Americans.  I  propose  that  we  work  towards  seeing  that  such  a 
formation  takes  place,  with  a  maximum  amount  of  independence  from  PL. 

2)  Nationhood,  autonomy,  and  the  right  of  self-determination.  This  right — is  as 
valid  now  as  35  years  ago,  regardless  as  to  whether  we  have  all  the  five  pre- 
requisites as  outlined  by  Stalin  .  .  When  we  talk  of  a  nation  or  autonomous 
republic,  we  are  of  course  talking  about  a  specific  area.  That  area  could  be  the 
black  belt.  I  think  the  concept  of  an  autonomous  republic  will  relieve  us  of  many 
of  the  theoretical  discussions,  and  the  arguments  that  we  would  get  involved  in 
by  advancing  the  slogan  of  the  Negro  nation.  The  concept  of  nationhood  does 
not  appeal  to  the  people  as  being  a  home-grown  Marxist-Leninist  concept 

3 )  Land  ...  I  don't  tJiink  that  the  Negro  people  will  wage  a  truly  revolutionary 
struggle  for  integration,  or  desegregation,  or  anything  like  that.  I  think  that  if 
they  could  see  the  end  result  of  their  struggle  as  having  land  of  their  own,  then 
they  would  more  readily  take  the  revolutionary  path  to  their  liberation. 

4)  The  black  bourgoisie.  At  times  their  role  has  been  progressive  and  at  other 
times  reactionary.  Their  role  is  less  conspicuous  today  and  I  think  less  impor- 
tant, because  there  seems  to  be  a  rejection  of  them  by  the  mass  of  the  Negro 
people. 

5)  Reform  demands.  The  possibility  of  winning  partial  victories  around  these 
struggles  is  there,  but  to  create  a  mass  base  or  a  mass  following  is  not  too  great. 
This  applies  not  only  to  PL  but  other  organizations.  At  the  height  of  the  rent 
strike  season  there  were  actually  very  few  buildings  on  rent  strikes.  From  our 
experiences  these  struggles  could  not  be  sustained  for  a  long  period  of  time. 
We  should  go  into  these  struggles  with  a  view  to  recruiting  the  more  militant 
forces,  and  attempting  to  politicalize  as  many  of  them  as  possible. 

6)  Name — Among  the  more  militant  people,  the  word  Negro  does  not  have  any 
meaning  and  they  thoroughly  reject  it.  There  seems  to  be  a  preference  for  Afro- 
American,  African-American,  or  black.  .  .  The  people  seem  to  generally  prefer 
the  world  black.  I  would  like  to  raise  the  question  of  Negro-white  unity.  The 
Negro  people  reject  the  whole  concept  of  Negro-white  unity  as  it  was  advanced 
by  the  CPUSA,  and  as  it  is  being  advanced  by  the  reformist  organizations.  The 
general  line  that  Negroes  and  whites  will  work  together  in  integrated  organiza- 
tions for  Negro  liberation.  I  see  the  concept  of  developing  a  black  revolutionary 
movement  or  organization  that  will  have  almost  complete  autonomy  from  the 
white  revolutionary  organization.  Even  though  there  will  be  blacks  within  the 
white  revolutionary  movement,  I  don't  think  that  the  mass  of  the  Negro 
people  will  follow  or  be  a  part  of  that  type  of  organization.  I  think  that  what  is 
happening  in  the  south  and  among  the  back  people  today  in  this  new  upsurge 
revolutionary  struggle  is  a  feeling,  maybe  latent,  or  an  emerging  nation  or  of 
an  emerging  people,  along  the  lines  of  what's  happening  in  Africa  and  Asia. 
Finally  ...  I  think  that  the  revolution  will  take  place  in  this  country  with 
the  mass  of  the  Negro  people  in  the  Democratic  party.  I  don't  know  if  in  other 
revolutionary  situations  the  mass  of  the  people  remained  in  the  main  bourgois 
party.  We  should  sort  of  re-think  this  too.  Where  are  we  going  to  operate :  with- 
in an  independent  party,  or  within  the  mass  party  of  the  people,  which  th*^ 
Democratic  Party  seems  to  be. 

BILL  McADOO: 

I  take  strong  issue  with  Bill  Epton's  report  as  it  was  written  a  year  <Tnd  a  half 
ago  and  with  a  number  of  the  comments  made  here  today  because  I  do  not  think 
it  is  founded  upon  a  solid  base  of  Marxist-Leninist  analysis.  There  was  no  sig- 
nificant analysis  of  what  nationalism  is.  What  is  it?  What  kind  of  historical 
phenomenon  is  it?  What  is  its  dialectical  development?  There  was  mention  of 
the  black  petty  bourgeoisie  (there  is  no  black  bourgeoisie,  only  a  petty  bour- 
geoisie). There  was  no  mention  of  the  fact  that  black  nationalism  is  a  black  petty 
bourgeois  trend  and  that  nationalism  is  always,  everywhere  a  bourgeoisie  trend, 
and  this  analysis  is  basic  to  Marxism.  There  is  no  mention  of  the  relationship  of 
forces  in  the  black  community,  of  which  black  nationalism  is  only  one  of  at  least 
five  distinct  poltical  trends,  of  which  Negro  bourgeois  reformism  is  only  one  of 
five  or  six  trends,  of  which  there  are  at  least  three  or  four  other  trends.  What 
Mao  did  for  Chinese  society  was  to  seek  to  discover  the  economic  base  of  relation 
that  motivated  the  various  elements.  A  very  careful  analysis.  And  why  ?  Because 
Mao  had  a  revolution  in  mind  and  in  order  to  succeed  in  a  proletarian  revolution 
one  has  to  know  who  one's  friends  are  who  one's  enemies  are,  and  you  have  to 
have  some  predictive  ptential.  You  have  to  know  what  they  are  going  to  do  when 


SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1101 

the  deal  goes  down,  who  are  they  going  to  side  with.  How  can  you  appeal  to  each 
section  and  what  form  of  organization  would  incorporate  each  section.  Now  we 
have  failed  to  do  this.  As  much  credit  as  you  can  give  Heywood  for  being  the 
first  black  American  Mai"xist  to  attempt  to  apply  Marxism-Leninism  to  the  Negro 
question  in  U.S.A.,  I  think  that  this  error  is  cari'ied  over  from  Heywood  because 
the  most  he  says  about  the  black  petty  bourgeoisie  is  to  say  that  it  has  a  split 
social  psychology.  In  other  words  we  have  to  sink  into  non-descript  sociological 
jargon  in  order  not  to  admit  a  failing. 

We  have  failed  to  find  out  what  role  Jesse  Grey,  Malcolm  X  and  Elijah  Mu- 
hammud  plays  in  the  Negro  community.  Are  they  reactionary  nationalists,  are 
they  Negro  bourgeois  reformists,  are  they  what  I  call  classical  Uncle  Toms,  are 
they  one  of  five  or  six  political  trends?  If  so,  what  are  their  economic  base  of 
relations?  But  we  have  not  gone  into  that .  .  .  but  they  do  have  separate  economic 
bases  of  relations.  I  think  also  we  miss  a  great  point  when  we  speak  of  self-deter- 
mination. Because  we  accept  self-determination  not  as  a  dialectical  process,  as 
a  thing  constantly  going  into  being  out  of  being,  as  a  nation  is  something  always 
coming  into  being  or  going  out  of  being  according  to  Stalin,  (and  he  is  correct). 
Instead  of  speaking  of  self-detennination  as  a  process,  a  process  of  struggle,  and 
conceiving  of  it  as  something  that  may  even  begin  before  a  socialist  revolution 
takes  place,  we  think  about  some  time  in  the  future,  and  say,  well  you  know,  when 
it  is  all  done  we  are  going  to  have  self-determination.  But  I  say  it  is  not  so,  that 
self-determination  has  a  definition  which  brings  it  within  the  framework  of 
capitalism.  That  does  not  mean  that  black  liberation  is  going  to  be  achieved  with- 
in the  framework  of  capitalism  or  that  self-determination  will  be  finished  within 
capitalism.  I  think  of  it  this  way.  When  the  Negro  people  as  a  people  begin  to 
engage  in  revolutionai-y  struggle  for  black  liberation  they  have  also  begiui  at  the 
same  time  to  fight  for  self-determination  and  they  are  exercising  one  part  of  self- 
determination  and  it  has  a  direction.  It's  very  conforting  and  nice  to  think  that 
after  the  socialist  revolution  ...  all  these  problems  are  going  to  be  solved,  that 
the  Negro  people  are  going  to  have  self-determination  and  get  a  little  piece  of 
land.  If  it  isn't  worked  out  as  a  process  there  isn't  going  to  be  any  such  thing  as 
self -determina  ti  on . 

For  American  Marxists  the  work  that  has  to  be  done  in  discerning  the  rela- 
tionship of  forces  in  the  Negro  community  represents  a  frontier  in  communist 
struggle  here  .  .  .  What  is  nationalism?  It  is  a  bourgeois  trend  and  is  there 
just  one  kind  of  nationalism?  No,  there  are  at  least  two  kinds  of  nationalism. 
There  is  reactionary  nationalism  and  there  is  what  I  call  neo-black  nationalism. 
And  what  is  the  basis  for  reactionary  black  nationalism?  The  Negro  people 
before  1921  was  predominantly  an  agrarian  community  and  predominantly 
residing  in  the  south.  There  is  the  Booker  T.  Washington  trend  of  thought.  This 
is  what  I  call  classical  Uncle  Tomism  and  there  is  a  very  good  reason  for  it. 
He  represented  a  class  of  Negroes  who,  in  return  for  a  closed  market  for  their 
real  estate,  little  banks,  little  grocery  stores  helped  to  maintain  the  subjugation 
of  the  Negro  people  in  the  South  in  an  agrarian  commimity.  They  were  useful. 
They  were  blatant  Uncle  Toms.  But  there  was  no  reform  expi-ession  for  these 
Negroes  to  participate  in.  In  other  wjords  they  were  used  in  the  same  way  as  some 
of  them  in  the  South  today  and  they  urge  people  not  to  participate  in  demon- 
strations. 

Now  what  did  they  get  in  return?  A  closed  market  on  their  insurance,  on  their 
funeral  parlors,  on  their  little  stores.  There  is  plenty  of  documentation  to  show 
this  as  a  trend  particularly  in  an  agrarian  situation.  Now  what  happens  when 
the  closed  market  is  violated.  It  is  violated  in  an  urban  situation,  like  New  York. 
When  the  Met.  Life  Insurance  Company  sends  a  Negro  salesman  into  Harlem  and 
he  opens  up  this  Uncle  Tom's  closed  market.  Two  forces  are  produced.  The 
economic  basis  for  the  two  other  trends  are  evidenced.  One  is  reactionary  Negro 
bourgeois  nationalism.  As  a  result  of  the  classical  Uncle  Tom's  market  being 
opened  he  responds  by  asserting  that  only  the  black  man  has  the  right  to  exploit 
the  black  man,  and  he  has  the  exclusive  right  to  exploit  the  black  man.  Malcolm 
X,  Muhammed  Elijah — black  capitalist  designs,  and  instead  of  Jesus  this  time 
they  lead  him  to  a  black  Jesus.  And  one  dialectically  develops  out  of  the  other 
and  if  you  don't  belive  me  findout  who  Lawson  represents  ;  the  Negro  wine  sellers 
association,  the  Negro  realtors  association,  the  small  Negro  banks,  that  is  who 
Lawson  represents. 

What  is  reactionary  Negro  bourgeois  nationalism.  It  is  declassed  Negro 
bourgeois  Uncle  Tomism.  The  have  been  declassed.  Their  closed  market  has 
been  violated.  But  who  violated  it?  The  Metropolitan  Life  Insurance  Company 


1102    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

hired  a  Negro — ^put  the  Negro  businessman  out  of  business.  This  Negro  hired  in 
Harlem  represents  now  the  economic  base  of  relations  for  Negro  bourgeois 
reformism.  There  is  also  neo-black  nationalism.  It  is  new,  because  a  lot  of  its 
emphasis  comes  from  the  nations  in  Africa  that  have  now  achieved  liberation.  It 
is  more  an  external  influence  on  the  Negro  community  here  than  an  internal 
influence.  It  has  positive  features.  It  is  possible  to  discern  at  least  six  bourgeois 
trends  (all  of  these  are  bourgeois  trends,  I  haven't  gotten  to  proletarian  trends 
yet)  and  use  them  as  a  basis  for  working  out  a  program  in  the  Negro  community, 
where  everybody  stands,  predicting  what  interests  they  represent  to  see  what 
struggles  they  vpill  engage  in  and  vpill  not  engage  in  and  will  not  engage  in  in  a 
united  way. 

ALICE  JEROME: 

There  is  very  little  said  about  Negroes  in  the  trade  union  movement.  If  this  is 
going  to  be  a  concentration  of  ours  in  the  coming  period  I  think  this  has  to  be 
dealt  with  more.  Perhaps  either  one  of  the  Bills  w.ould  want  to  discuss  it. 

BILL  EPTON: 

There  is  a  brief  section  of  the  report  on  the  Negro  in  the  trade  union  movement. 
It  is  only  an  opening  gun  on  it. 

MORT  SCHEER: 

There  is  a  tremendous  gap  in  the  development  of  Marxists-Leninists  on  the 
question  of  Negro  liberation.  This  reflects  the  failure  of  Marxists-Leninists  in 
the  United  States  for  a  long  period  of  time.  This  is  going  to  require  more  serious 
study  and  experience. 

We  have  to  reject  what  is  being  put  forward  by  psuedo  Marxists-Leninists 
as  a  strategy  .  .  .  There  are  four  lines  .  . .  that  have  to  be  rejected  by  us  : 

1)  This  line  (reflects  the  Communist  Party  and  Randolidi  and  others)  that  the 
struggle  is  essentially  a  struggle  to  complete  the  bourgeois  democratic  revolu- 
tion. In  essence  it  says  that  the  bourgoisie  can  still  play  a  progressive  role  in 
this  society,  and  neglects  the  fact  that  the  bourgoisie  has  reached  the  stage  of 
an  imperialist  bourgoisie  and  imperialism  is  reactionary  all  along  the  line. 

2)  Another  line  put  forward  in  Haywood's  unpublished  manuscript,  that  the 
main  contradiction  is  between  the  Negro  people  and  the  Dixiecrats,  and  that 
there  is  a  fundamental  contradiction  between  the  Soulthern  oligarchy  and  the 
ruling  class.  That  the  main  task  is  to  direct  the  struggle  against  the  Dixiecrats — 
split  the  Dixiecrats  from  the  ruling  class — that  this  will  lead  to  a  form  of  black 
liberation,  although  not  complete.  I  think  this  is  a  false  thesis.  The  main  enemy 
is  the  ruling  class.  The  Dixiecrats  are  servants  of  the  ruling  class.  This  line 
leads  to  wrong  practical  policies — such  as  that  federal  troops  should  occupy 
the  south.  It  leads  in  effect  to  the  same  conclusion  as  the  flrst — a  reliance  on  the 
ruling  class  to  grant,  under  pressure  some  form  of  liberation. 

3)  That  the  Negro  people  can  achieve  liberation  under  capitalism.  This  has 
been  put  forward  by  Hammer  and  Steel.  It  says  that  we  are  underestimating — we 
are  failing  to  slight  the  enemy  strategically  in  the  sense  that  we're  overestimat- 
ing imperialism  to  think  that  the  Negro  people  cannot  achieve  liberation  luider 
capitalism.  That  imj)erialism  is  so  wrought  with  contradictions  that  it's  possible 
to  force  them  to  grant  self-determination,  even  before  the  overthrow  of  the 
ruling  class. 

4)  That  the  Negro  people  alone  can  achieve  liberation.  This  thesis  is  imt  for- 
•ward  by  the  Trotskyists.  It  is  also  incorrect. 

The  history  of  capitalism  in  the  U.S.  is  organically  connected  with  the  oppres- 
sion of  the  Negro  i)eople.  The  principle  source  of  primitive  capital  accumula- 
tion came  from  slavery  and  the  slave  trade.  Secondly,  when  capitalism  developed 
to  imperialism  in  the  U.S.,  a  principal  source  for  the  snstenence  of  imperialism  in 
the  United  States  was  and  is  the  oppression  of  the  Negro  people.  The  amount  of 
surplus  value  or  profits  that  they've  expropriated  since  the  Second  World  War 
is  something  like  100  billion,  from  the  exploitation  of  the  Negro  people.  If  we 
compare  it  with  what  they  take  out  of  Latin  America  and  other  areas  and  when 
we  think  of  what  they're  doing  to  save  their  base  of  oppression,  they're  not 
going  to  voluntarily  surrender  their  base  of  oppression  in  the  U.S.  This  estimate 
Is  based  on  something  like  $16  billion  a  year  wage  differentials,  higher  prices 
charged  in  the  Negro  communities  and  things  like  that.  It's  probably  more  than 
$20  billion  a  year  in  wages  alone. 

Our  starting  point  is  that  the  main  enemy  is  the  imperialist  ruling  class. 
Just  as  imperialism  oppresses  other  colonial  peoples  in  Asia,  Africa  and  Latin 
America,  there  is  a  base  and  a  superstructure  of  oppression  in  the  United  States. 
The  ruling  class,  under  pressure,  will  grant  certain  types  of  concessions  partic- 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1103 

ularly  in  the  superstructure,  but  will  never  voluntarily  surrender  their  eco- 
nomic base  of  oppression  nor  their  political  power.  Those  are  the  two  main 
things  that  the  ruling  class  will  cling  to. 

The  shift  that  has  taken  place  in  the  status  of  the  Negro  people  from  a  pre- 
dominantly agriculturally  oppressed  people  to  a  predominantly  working  class 
oppressed  people  is  of  tremendous  significance.  It  accounts  in  part  for  the  in- 
creased exploitation  of  the  Negro  people,  and  it  accounts  in  part  for  the  new  stage 
in  the  revolutionary  process  of  the  liberation  movement — the  urbanization  and 
the  working  class  development  of  the  Negro  people.  The  historic  source  of  the 
oppression  is  the  South.  The  south  was,  and  is  a  semi-colonial  area,  in  effect.  The 
heart  of  the  oppression  is  the  Negro  people,  but  also  the  entire  area,  including  the 
whites,  have  been  affected  by  this  status  of  being  a  semi-colonial  area — somewhat 
different  from  the  North.  That's  why  I  don't  agree  with  Truman  Nelson's  position 
that  the  Negro  people  throughout  the  whole  of  the  U.S.  constitute  the  nation. 

BILL  MCADDO: 

Stalin  said  nothing  about  the  heart  of  oppression  being  one  of  the  five  qualifica- 
tions for  a  nation. 

MORT  SCHEER: 

No,  but  I  think  that  the  heart  of  it  flows  out  of  the  fact  that  the  essential  base 
of  the  nation  of  the  Negro  people  is  in  the  south.  Oppression  doesn't  have  any- 
thing to  do  with  it,  but  I  think  that  historically  the  way  the  system  evolved  was 
in  the  south  and  spread  throughout  the  whole  country.  So  I  think  there  cannot 
be  a  revolution  of  the  Negro  people  without  a  revolution  to  overthrow  the  ruling 
class  and  in  particular  a  program  of  revolution  for  the  South. 

Fourthly,  I  think  that  the  question  of  the  relationship  of  the  struggle  for  libra- 
tion  and  the  struggle  for  socialism  has  to  be  very  much  explored  by  us.  In  my 
opinion  there  are  two  revolutionary  currents  in  the  United  States,  uneven  in 
development  at  this  stage.  One  is  the  proletarian  revolution  and  the  other  is  the 
liberation  revolution.  A  Marxist-Leninist  vanguard  has  to  have  an  overall  strat- 
egy for  the  destruction  of  imperialism  which  is  the  source  of  oppression.  That 
overall  strategy  can  only  lead  to  the  conclusion  that  the  main  force  for  the 
destruction  of  the  imperialist  system  is  the  working  class.  That  does  not  exclude 
the  Negro  people  because  the  Negro  people  are  a  decisive  sector  of  the  working 
class  and  in  my  judgment  will  be  the  leading  sector.  But  nevertheless  I  can't  en- 
vision imperialism  being  destroyed  in  this  country  without  the  working  class  as  a 
class  destroying  the  imperialist  system.  So  the  main  force  for  revolution  is  the 
working  class  and  the  main  force  for  liberation  is  the  working  class  sector  of  the 
liberation  movement,  the  Negro  workers,  and  the  strategy  and  tactics  have  to  be 
based  on  that.  I  think  there  has  to  be  the  development  of  mass  black  revolution- 
ary organizations,  not  a  single  all  embracing  black  revolutionary  organization. 
There  will  be  many  forms  including  self-defense  units,  Negi'O  workers  organiza- 
tions, farm  workers  organizations,  political  councils,  black  coimcils,  housing 
councils^ — in  other  words  there  will  be  many  forms  of  organization.  There  will 
emerge  a  national  liberation  fi-ont  of  all  of  these  organizations  and  through  the 
development  of  revolutionaries  in  this  movement  black  Marxist-Leninists  will 
lead  this  revolution.  We  should  not  have  the  perspective  of  a  white  revolutionary 
party  and  a  black  revolutionary  party.  That  would  be  a  mistake.  A  vanguard 
party  should  be  based  on  internationalism  and  based  on  the  working  class  and 
I  don't  think  we  should  project  a  black  revolutionary  party  as  a  vanguard  and  a 
white  revolutionary  party  as  a  vanguard.  I  think  we  should  project  a  working 
class  party,  black  and  white.  Everyone  connected  with  the  revolution  to  be  in  the 
vanguard.  However,  this  does  not  mean  no  black  revolutionary  movement  or 
black  revolutionary  organizations.  This  would  be  another  mistake. 

Secondly,  I  think  there  has  to  be  developed  a  black  revolutionary  press,  a 
liberation  press.  There  is  no  such  press  on  the  scene  at  this  point.  And  it  should 
be  national,  north  and  south. — not  just  for  the  south  as  Freedom  was  projected. 
A  press  that  will  strive  to  build  the  various  black  revolutionary  organizations 
as  well  as  the  national  liberation  front  and  a  press  that  can  become  an  organ 
for  the  liberation  movement.  There  are  two  aspects  to  the  question  of  self-deter- 
mination that  Bill  McAdoo  just  spoke  about.  One  is  that  it  is  a  process  that 
goes  on  now  and  has  been  going  on  in  the  sense  that  the  strategy  and  tactics  will 
be  determined  by  the  Negro  people  themselves.  But  I  think  that  self-determina- 
tion means  a  very  specific  thing  also  and  not  just  a  process  .  .  .  the  right  to  secede 
from  the  dominant  nation  and  set  up  the  oppressed  nation's  national  state  with 
its  own  territory.  Revolution  is  a  process  but  we  shouldn't  confuse  the  process 


1104    SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

with  the  actual  revolution,  the  culmination  of  the  process.  What  has  taken  place 
in  the  radical  movement  over  a  period  of  time  has  been  a  wiping  off  of  the  rev- 
olutionary potential  of  white  workers.  There  has  been  concentration  among  stu- 
dents and  in  the  black  community  but  there  is  a  big  gap  in  work  among  white 
workers  and  working  class  youth.  This  is  wrong.  It  is  fundamentally  opportunis- 
tic, in  the  sense  that  the  revolutionary  potential  is  highest  at  this  stage  of  the 
revolution  among  Negro  people  and  Puerto  Rican  people  and  among  idealistic 
students,  but  there  has  to  be  a  concentration  developed  by  white  revolutionaries 
in  the  white  communities  and  in  certain  shops.  The  only  way  of  building  Negro- 
white  unity  is  through  that  kind  of  work ;  it  is  not  possible  on  any  other  kind  of 
basis.  Through  struggle  unity  will  emerge  rather  than  through  any  superficial 
approaches.  The  way  we  are  going  to  build  a  base  among  white  workers  is  not 
going  to  be  on  the  basis  of  the  oppression  of  the  black  people  but  on  the  basis  of 
the  immediate  issues  confronting  the  white  workers,  the  class  issues.  Through 
mobilizing  strength  along  these  lines  will  emerge  a  unity  with  the  black  workers 
and  the  black  community.  I  think  this  has  been  widely  neglected. 

In  effect  we  are  not  combatting  the  widespread  white  supremacy  that  exists — 
The  position  has  been  attacked  that  to  raise  the  question  that  the  working  class 
is  going  to  be  the  main  force  to  destroy  the  imperialist  means  to  hold  back  the 
black  revolution  under  false  cries  of  Negro-white  unity.  There  is  a  correct  aspect 
to  that  and  also  an  incorrect  aspect  to  that.  If  we  have  the  line  to  hold  back  the 
black  revolutionary  movement  because  the  working  class  revolutionary  move- 
ment is  relatively  backward  at  this  time — that  would  be  a  mistake.  What  is  re- 
quired is  a  shifting  of  work  on  the  part  of  white  revolutionaries  to  raise  the  level 
of  revolutionary  consciousness  among  white  workers. 

BILL  EPTON: 

I  don't  propose  that  there  be  a  white  Marxist  party  and  a  black  Marxist  party. 
What  I  suggested  was  that  there  develop  a  black  nationalist  type  of  organization, 
to  pull  together  this  latent  feeling  in  the  black  community  and  give  it  its  own 
direction. 

MCADOO : 

I  think  that  the  concepts  brought  out  by  Morty  are  not  too  different  from  the 
concepts  brought  out  by  the  old  party  on  Negro-white  unity.  Now  Bill  Bpton 
has  said  that  the  Negro  community  has  rejected  this  type  of  concept  of  Negro- 
white  unity.  I  reject  it  outright  and  for  sound  revolutionary  reasons.  One  is  that 
I  do  not  conceive  of  the  Negro  people  in  the  black  belt  as  a  nation,  I  conceive  of 
the  Negro  people  as  a  nation  whether  they  be  in  the  black  belt,  the  south  side  of 
Chicago,  Harlem  or  anywhere  else.  Why  do  we  limit  the  nation  to  the  black  belt? 
One  reason  is  because  imperialism  walks  naked  there,  whereas  they  took  down 
the  signs  in  Harlem.  Well,  according  to  Stalin  that  has  nothing  to  do  with  the 
definition  of  a  nation.  The  nation  (according  to  Stalin)  is  a  historical  category, 
something  that  is  coming  into  being  and  going  out  of  being,  and  he  defines  it  very 
explicitly,  and  it  happens  historically  that  some  nations  are  oppressed  and  others 
are  not,  they  have  formed  a  state. 

One  of  the  main  things  for  defining  nation  as  a  black  belt,  is  Stalin's  proposi- 
tion that  there  must  be  a  common  territory.  Look  at  the  reasoning  here.  Stalin 
said  there  must  be  a  common  territory  after  he  explained  why — what  utility 
this  common  territory  has.  Because  there  is  a  greater  interaction  jimong  the 
people,  because  they're  together  more,  certain  other  features  that  define  a  nation, 
are  more  apt  to  occur,  and  be  sustained,  and  be  stable  in  order  to  make  a  stable 
community.  If  one  has  a  concept  that  only  the  Negro  people  in  the  black  belt 
form  a  nation  what  are  we  to  say  of  the  white  people  in  New  York  and  the 
white  people  of  California,  what  common  territory  do  they  share?  But  they  are 
part  of  one  nation.  But  when  we  think  of  Harlem  where  half  a  million  people 
live,  and  the  South  side  of  Chicago  and  the  black  bottom  of  Detroit,  we  don't 
think  of  it  in  the  same  way.  We  don't  think  that  these  areas  of  black  concen- 
tration form  a  part  of  one  black  nation  consisting  of  20  million  black  people 
in  the  United  States.  I  think  thrre's  an  artificial  application  of  Marxism-Leninism 
here.  Not  finding  out  why  Stilin  suggested  this,  but  only  taking  it  and  applying  it 
artificially.  I  .say  that  the  Negro  people  in  the  United  States  comprise  a  nation 
if  the  only  qualification  were  common  territory.  I  think  that  we  are  making 
statements  about  whether  we  should  have  a  black  revolutionary  Marxist-Leninist 
party  and  a  white  revolutionary  Marxist-Leninist  party  and  are  dismissing  the 
concept  of  a  black  revolutionary  party  because  we  see  this  as  a  reflection  of 
reactionary  black  nationalism,  which  it  is  not.  I  think  I  can  advance  a  good 
case  for  a  black  revolutionary  party  with   fraternal   relations  with  a  white 


SUBVERSIVE  INELUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1105 

revolutionary  party,  the  type  of  relations  that  are  supposed  to  exist  between 
nations  under  socialism,  and  I  don't  think  that  this  concept  will  violate  Marxism- 
Leninism  in  any  way  whatsoever.  If  you  conceive  of  the  Negro  as  a  nation 
this  conclusion  is  almost  automatic.  I  believe  it  will  evolve,  that  it  must  exist 
and  that  is  the  only  way  you  are  really  going  to  achieve  Negro-white  unity. 
Another  concept — in  a  party  we  have  democratic  centralism.  If  we  have  demo- 
cratic centralism  in  a  united  party  then  the  self-determination  of  the  Negro  people 
is  going  to  be  violated  because  they  are  going  to  fall  under  the  will  of  the 
majority.  Now  face  it,  a  white  majority. 

MORT  SCHEER: 

Do  you  conceive  of  two  separate  revolutionary  strategies  for  the  destruction 
of  the  ruling  class. 

MCADOO : 

Because  the  Negro  people  live  in  a  particular  and  special  kind  of  circumstance 
there  will  be  aspects  of  strategy  which  will  be  particular  and  not  general.  But 
there  are  aspects  of  strategy  which,  because  we  all  live  under  imperialism,  will 
be  general.  Suppose  instead  of  the  reformists  who  command  the  movement  in 
the  south  we  commanded  it  and  suppose  we  had  in  mind  not  a  patchwork  reform 
but  a  fundamental  reform,  well  what  kind  of  reform  would  we  join  in  fraternally  ? 
The  kind  of  reform  on  the  agrarian  question  that  we  would  join  in  fraternally 
is  the  struggle  for  the  complete  and  absolute  abolition  of  sharecropping  as  a 
cruel  and  inhuman  form  of  production,  much  the  same  as  slavery.  And  who 
would  this  benefit?  Just  black  people?  It  benefits  white  people  as  well.  I'd  say 
that  to  dismiss  the  concept  of  the  black  people  having  a  revolutionary  left  party, 
a  Marxist-Leninist  party,  independent,  in  a  fraternal  sense,  from  a  white  revolu- 
tionary party  in  the  United  States,  may  be  to  carry  over  a  mistake  which  pre- 
vented the  development  of  a  significant  left  force  within  the  black  community. 

MORT  SCHEER: 

What  about  the  Mexican-Americans,  the  Indians  and  the  Puerto  Rican  people  ? 
What  party  would  they  join  ? 

MCADOO : 

The  Puerto  Rican  people  are  not  a  nation  here.  I  think  it  depends  upon  your 
estimate  of  what  the  character  of  these  different  minority  groups  are,  just  as 
much  as  what  considerations  you  have  as  to  whether  there  should  be  two 
revolutionary  parties  in  the  U.S.  depends  a  great  deal  on  your  estimate  of  the 
Negro  people. 

Another  point — To  most  people  imperialism  seems  synonymous  with  capital- 
ism— ^forgetting  that  it's  the  highest  stage  of  capitalism.  When  did  it  evolve: 
at  the  turn  of  the  century.  .  .  .  Now  what  happened  in  1865?  The  Negro  people 
in  the  course  of  the  Civil  War  were  transformed  from  a  condition  of  slavery 
under  a  ruling  union  of  Southern  slaveholders  and  northern  bourgoisie —  who 
both  benefited.  They  were  transferred  to  what  I  call  black  captivity  under 
imperialism — .  Certain  things  began  after  slavery  ended.  Up  to  day  we  can 
say  that  %  of  the  Negro  people  at  least,  live  in  urban  communities  and  are  prob- 
ably proletarian.  Before  the  turn  of  the  century  %  at  least — probably  90% — were 
agrarian.  What  did  imperialism  mean  in  terms  of  the  Negro  people.  Their  condi- 
tions reached  a  new  stage.  What  role  does  the  black  play?  Is  it  just  another  ghetto, 
like  the  Jewish  people's  ghetto  on  the  lower  east  side,  or  the  Polish  people  in 
Hamtramck,  Michigan?  Or  is  it  a  special  mechanism,  as  regards  black  captivity 
.  .  .  Regardless  of  whether  you  regard  the  Negro  people  as  a  nation,  there  will  be 
a  struggle  for  black  liberation. 

WALLY  LINDER: 

If  workers  struggling  against  the  plant  manager,  like  the  auto  workers,  become 
revolutionary  and  are  ready  to  join  a  revolutionary  party,  then  it  seems  to 
me  tJiat  by  directing  them  into  separate  Marxist-Leninist  parties  you  are 
splitting  a  struggle  they  have  developed  against  a  section  of  the  ruling  class 
that  is  exploiting  black  and  white  workers ;  that  to  me  seems  illogical. 

SELMA  SPARKS: 

That  statement  is  based  on  an  incorrect  assumption,  that  there  is  bla<^- 
white  worker  unity  today.  The  point  is  that  before  this  unity  can  emerge  you 
need  two  separate  parties.  Workers  today  struggle  against  one  another  because 
they  don't  recognize  the  common  enemy.   Something  else  has  to  create  unity 


1106    SUBVERSIVE  ESTFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

and  I  don't  see  any  other  way  to  do  it  except  to  have  two  separate  groups  working 
among  their  own  people  to  raise  the  conscionsness  of  these  people. 

BILL  MCADOO: 

I  don't  see  where  my  concept  (helps  divide  the  workers  in  the  union).  Pre- 
sumably  in  that  union  there  are  going  to  be  black  Marxists  and  white  Marxists 
working  together  based  on  a  sound  revolutionary  program  and  on  a  basis 
of  fraternal  unity  and  equal  relations.  I  was  talking  about  a  party  and  not 
a  labor  union. 

WALLY  LINDBR: 

I  wasnt  talking  about  a  xmion,  I  was  talking  about  developing  revolution- 
aries in  the  working  class  and  revolutionary  work  among  the  workers,  not 
just  the  question  of  TU  demands. 

MILT  ROSEN: 

The  meeting  is  getting  interesting.  We  will  have  to  have  some  decorum. 
Stalin  and  Lenin  conceived  of  one  revolutionary  i>arty  to  embrace  all  the 
national  groups  in  Russia.  In  Cuba  you  had  a  black  and  white  revolution. 
The  point  I  think  is  more  important  is  that  you  raise  a  new  concept  of  nation- 
hood embracing  all  the  ghettos,  together  with  all  the  Negro  population  in 
the  South.  I  don't  think  the  basic  thing  in  achieving  it  (revolution)  is  whether 
you  have  one  party  or  two  parties.  More  fundamental  than  that — ^because  you 
would  say  that  we  would  all  work  together  for  a  universal  revolutionary 
program  within  which  there  would  be  different  particulars.  I  would  like  to 
hear  how  this  is  going  to  be  accomplished  and  what  would  be  some  of  the 
strategy  and  tactics. 

FRED  JEROME: 

The  discussion  is  much  too  abstract,  cut-off  from  practical  application. 
This  question  is  raised  only  in  relation  to  two  parties.  Before  you  get  to  two 
parties  there  is  a  whole  question  of  two  nations,  the  whole  question  of  what 
goes  into  two  nations,  and  so  on.  We  are  talking  up  in  the  air.  If  you  have  a 
nation  bounded  by  the  color  of  its  skin,  as  Btorold  Oruse  wrote  in  Studies  on 
the  Left,  then  have  you  got  two  nations  sharing  a  territory,  practically  speak- 
ing? What  does  that  mean?  Who  do  I  vote  for?  Where  do  I  pay  my  taxes?  What 
about  the  guy  on  110th  St.?  Is  this  a  practical  question  or  just  an  idealogical 
one?  This  has  to  be  established  first  before  you  get  into  a  hassal  on  two  parties. 

UNA  MULZAC : 

I  agree  with  Fred — it's  very  diflScult  to  see  this  with  any  clarity,  because  where 
does  it  (the  nation)  begin,  and  where  does  it  end,  if  you're  going  to  have  two 
separate  one  ( nation )  that  involve  the  entire  country  ?  There  must  be  some  boun- 
daries— some  basis  for  definition.  Where  everyone  is  in  the  same  nation  and  not 
in  the  same  nation — I  can't  visualize  any  such  thing  being  projected  in  any  scien- 
tific manner.  The  people  who  projected  the  idea  of  partition  in  British  Guiana 
were  very  specific  about  where  the  black  people  would  live  and  where  the  Indian 
people  would  live,  but  I  can't  see  this  nationhood  question  being  looked  upon  in 
any  kind  of  way  that  would  clarify  it  to  anyone  else,  unless  you  spent  a  lot  of 
time  in  trying  to  do  this — in  creating  boundaries  or  not  creating  boundaries, 
whether  or  not  it  would  have  boundaries  or  wouldn't  have  boundaries  would  be  a 
very  important  question.  If  it's  just  an  ideological  thing,  you'd  be  bringing  in  an 
ideological  question  which  would  just  say  that  because  there  is  a  population  of 
about  22  million  people  who  are  faced  with  certain  historical  developments  evolv- 
ing their  cultural,  economic  and  political  life  in  the  U.S. — if  you  want  to  say 
that  because  of  this  there  is  a  nation,  I  don't  think  that  would  be  valid  either — 
even  ideologically.  You  leave  out  the  fact  that  this  nation  takes  in  the  entire  area 
of  the  United  States,  just  like  the  white  nation  takes  in  the  entire  area  of  the 
U.S.  I  feel  that  there  would  have  to  be  much  more  scientific  basis  for  a  projec- 
tion of  this  thought  of  the  Negro  people  as  a  nation  in  the  United  States. 

BILL  MCADOO: 

People  are  confusing  the  concept  of  the  nation  with  the  concept  of  the  state. 
A  nation  may  never  become  a  state.  The  concept  of  partition  has  nothing  to  do 
with  the  concept  of  nationhood.  Hard  and  fast  lines  of  boundaries  and  separa- 
tions have  nothing  to  do  with  nationhood.  People  take  this  mention  of  two  sepa- 
rate revolutionary  parties  so  literally  and  so  extremely,  that  immediately  it 
implies  the  suggestion  of  two  real  separate  entities.  I  wasn't  talking  about  a  state. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1107 

or  bovmdaries — the  boundaries  exist  right  now.  We  want  to  eliminate  those  boun- 
daries. I  don't  understand  this  talk  of  boundaries  and  territories. 

ALICE  JEROME : 

I  think  a  great  deal  of  the  confusion  of  the  Negro  people  in  this  country  (are 
they  a  nation?  what  kind  of  nation?)  arises  because  their  position  in  the  country 
is  not  a  clear  cut  position.  There  is  an  objective  basis  for  this  confusion.  The 
part  of  the  position  which  we  will  agree  upon  is  that  the  Negro  people  historically 
and  by  virtue  of  a  special  kind  of  colonial  type  oppression,  has  constituted  a 
nation  within  a  nation.  This  colonial  type  oppression  exists  throughout  the 
country,  not  only  in  the  South,  but  wherever  there  are  Negro  people  trying  to 
live  under  capitalism  today,  and  this  is  a  cornerstone  of  the  capitalist  system. 
I  don't  think  you  could  have  a  capitalist  system  in  U.S.,  without  one  foot  firmly 
based  on  the  exploitation  of  the  Negro  people,  as  super-exploitation,  as  a  colonial 
or  semi-colonial  people.  But  it's  not  a  clear  cut  thing,  and  I  don't  think  it  answers 
Stalin's  definition  exactly,  and  I  don't  think  that's  particularly  important.  It  is 
a  special  case.  I  think  there  are  certain  things  we  could  agree  on — but  I  don't 
think  this  means  that  there  isn't  the  need  for  further  exploration  of  the  ques- 
tion. I'll  try  to  state  them  (the  things  we  agree  upon).  1).  The  Negro  people 
throughout  the  country  constitute  a  nation,  and  have  a  right  to  self-determina- 
tion, when  and  where  their  liberation  process  (and  I  agree  that  the  liberation 
process  is  in  itself  a  self-determination  process)  makes  this  possible.  The  boun- 
daries, if  there  are  boundaries  would  be  determined  at  that  time,  but  the  right 
seems  to  me  clear-cut.  The  right  is  part  of  the  process  which  they  (the  Negro 
people)  are  enacting  at  this  time.  2).  Full  liberation  will  not  come  under  capital- 
ism, it  will  require  a  revolution  to  a  socialist  economy,  because  the  Negro  is  the 
cornerstone  of  U.S.  imperialist  oppression.  3)  This  liberation  will  be  achieved  by 
the  working  class,  through  the  fraternal  unity  of  a  black  liberation  front,  and 
the  organized  working  class,  and  other  allies. 

I  see  the  black  liberation  front  as  a  separate  entity,  not  exactly  a  seimrate 
party.  I  would  see  a  party  that  would  at  least  unite  some  people  who  are  in  all 
of  these  and  in  the  organized  working  class;  there  might  be  a  Puerto  Riean 
Liberation  front,  a  Mexican-American  liberation  front,  but  they  would  unite  as 
allies  for  the  destruction  of  capitalism,  4)  The  Negro  i>eople  would  work  in  all 
aspects  of  the  black  liberation  front  in  alliance  with  the  revolutionary  working 
class  party.  I  think  maybe  it  should  be  called  a  black  revolutionary  liberation 
front. 

LARRY  PHELPS  : 

My  understanding  of  a  nation  comes  from  what  is  historically  meant  by  a 
nation — it  has  some  kind  of  territory,  some  kind  of  unified  economy,  some  kind  of 
social  characteristics.  If  you  aren't  using  those  kinds  of  criteria,  I  wish  you 
wouldn't  use  the  term  nation,  but  use  something  else.  In  Mort's  discussion,  I 
have  some  questions — In  what  way  do  you  define  a  semi-colony?  Bill  McAdoo, 
you  talked  about  transformation — ^how  is  that  related  to  nationhood.  All  sides 
seem  to  think  that  either  before  or  after  the  revolution  there  will  be  some  kind 
of  nation  created.  I  don't  agree  with  that.  What  is  crucial  is  the  kind  of  agitation 
you  will  carry  on  in  connection  with  this.  Also,  how  wiU  this  mass  black  revolu- 
tionary organization  work? 

FRED  JEROME : 

The  concept  of  two  separate  parties  presupposes  the  existence  or  coming  into 
existence  of  two  separate  states.  That  sense  is  where  the  confusion  between 
the  two  concepts  of  state  and  nation  arose,  unless  you  can  explain  the  need  for 
two  separate  fraternal  parties  without  the  need  for  two  separate  states,  or  move- 
ments toward  two  separate  states. 

MORT  SCHEER: 

One  of  the  words  that's  confusing  us  is  "revolution"— because  there  all  all 
kinds  of  revolutions  and  revolutionaries.  The  bourgeois  revolution  and  the  pro- 
letarian revolution  aren't  the  same  kinds  of  revolution.  Essentially,  the  anti- 
imperialist,  national  liberation  revolutions  are  not  proletarian  revolutions.  Essen- 
tially they  are  national  revolutions  and  not  a  working  class  revolution  as  such. 
Therefore  an  anti-imperialist  or  national  liberation  movement  you  can  have  a 
party  or  a  united  front,  or  a  national  front,  that  expresses  the  national  libera- 
tion revolution.  However,  within  the  national  liberation  movement  there  are 
classes,  and  the  working  class  sector  does  not  have  the  same  line  as  the  bour- 
geois sector,  even  though  the  bourgeois  sector  could  be  revolutionary.  When  we 


1108    SUBVERSIVE  mTLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOO'HNG,  AND  BURNING 

si)eak  of  a  Marxist-Leninist  party  or  strategy,  we  are  si>eaking  about  a  working 
class  strategy  for  national  liberation  and  a  working  class  strategy  for  socialist 
revolution,  and  our  understanding  is  that  the  national  liberation  revolution  can- 
not be  consummated  unless  it  develops  into  a  socialist  revolution,  as  it  did  in 
Ouba.  Particularly  in  the  United  States,  I  don't  think  it  can  be  consummated, 
unless  there's  a  socialist  revolution.  Therefore,  the  party  of  the  working  class 
fighting  with  the  outlook  of  establishing  a  working  class  state  and  socialism, 
should  be  a  party  of  the  entire  working  class,  and  not  fragmented,  because  the 
logic  of  that  (establishing  a  party  on  national  considerations)  would  mean  es- 
tablishing a  black  party  as  well  as  a  white  i>arty,  a  Puerto  Rican  party  as  well  as 
a  Mexican-American  party.  I  would  be  opposed  to  that.  I  think  however,  that  the 
national  liberation  movement  will  have  organizations — even  parties  and  many 
forms,  which  will  reflect  that  national  liberation  movement.  In  order  to  defeat 
U.S.  imperialism,  a  united  strategy  of  the  working  class,  to  overthrow  imperial- 
ism is  necessary.  Flowing  from  that  strategy  is  how  to  further  the  revolutionary 
currents  of  the  national  liberation  movements,  which  would  require  some  sepa- 
rate strategic  and  tactical  aspects,  in  rallying  the  people  to  the  overthrow  of 
imi)erialism. 

Now,  as  to  why  I  believe  the  South  is  the  heart  of  the  oppression  of  the  Negro 
people.  This  is  an  historically  determined  thing,  based  on  slavery,  and  the 
evolution  of  the  Jim  Crow  system,  and  so  forth.  The  reason  why  the  heart  of 
imperialist  oppression  is  in  the  South  is  because  that  is  where  the  heart  of 
the  nation  of  the  Negro  people  is  also,  which  is  historically  determined.  This 
does  not  mean  that  Negroes  from  the  North  are  excluded  from  the  national 
liberation  movement.  It  will  embrace  all  of  the  northern  metropolitan  areas — 
where  the  majority  of  the  Negro  i)eople  live.  Any  question  of  the  self-determina- 
tion process  which  vpill  lead  to  the  question  "WiU  the  Negro  people  decide  to 
set  up  a  separate  state  after  the  revolution" — is  for  the  Negro  people  to  deter- 
mine, and  it  may  only  be  a  sector  of  the  Negro  people — maybe  only  five  million 
will  want  a  separate  state.  I  say  that  a  working  class  socialist  state  could  not 
deny  5  million  Negro  people  their  right  to  have  a  separate  state.  It  will  have 
to  be  a  considerable  number  and  it  will  have  to  be  based  on  the  will  of  the 
people. 

As  for  the  reason  why  the  South  is  a  semi-colonial  area — because  the  exploita- 
tion of  the  South — both  the  economic  base,  and  the  superstructural  conditions 
of  the  South — is  dominated  by  finance  capital — Northern  finance  capital — im- 
perialism— just  as  other  colonial  areas  are  dominated  by  imperialism.  All  of  the 
characteristics  of  a  semi-colonial  area-like  retarded  industrial  development 
(even  though  there's  been  an  upsurge  in  the  post-war  period)  semi-feudal  land 
relations,  also  the  political  power  is  not  in  the  hands  of  the  Southern  ruling  class 
as  such — it  is  in  the  hands  of  the  U.S.  ruling  class.  The  Dixiecrats  are  not  tbe 
rulers  of  the  South  in  the  real  sense  but  are  protecting  the  interests  of  the  im- 
I>erialists — even  though  they  have  their  own  interests  and  there  are  contradic- 
tions. The  conditions  of  the  white  workers  and  farmers  of  the  south  are  af- 
fected by  this  semi-colonial  status. 

Summing  up — One  party  (Marxist-Leninist)  based  on  internationalism,  with 
the  recognition  that  there  is  a  national  liberation  movement,  there'll  be  many 
organizations — we  should  encourage  the  further  development  of  tbe  national 
liberation  movement — separate  in  that  sense ;  there'll  be  a  national  liberation 
front  with  a  working  class  sector  in  it  (an  Marxist-Leninist  line)  to. relate  the 
struggle  for  socrialism  to  the  national  liberation  struggle.  The  role  of  the  white 
proletarian  revolutionaries  is  to  build  a  revolutionary  base  among  white  workers, 
build  unity  of  the  working  class,  and  support  the  national  liberation  movements, 
and  eventually  develop  a  coalescence  of  these  two  revolutionary  potentials  in  the 
U.S.  for  the  overthrow  of  imperialism. 

JAKE  ROSEN : 

I  think  McAdoo  is  essentially  making  an  organizational  political  point  But 
he  ties  this  up  with  a  lot  of  ideological  talk  which  has  nothing  to  do  with  it, 
and  is  wrong.  You  (McAdoo)  conclude  separate  parties,  presumably  becjiuse 
there  are  separate  nations.  Then  you  have  to  come  up  with  a  definition  of  a 
nation,  and  you  haven't  yet  I  don't  believe  that  Negroes  in  this  country  are  a 
nation.  By  McAdoo's  definition  we  are  not  a  nation — we  are  a  collection  of 
tribes.  By  the  various  definitions,  the  only  group  in  this  country  that  is  not  a 
nation  are  the  whites.  A  nation  can  either  be  developing  or  it  can  be  dying  out. 
A  nation  that  is  developing  is  one  which  is  aspiring  to  statehood.  If  you  use 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1109 

the  word  autonomy,  that  word  means  the  same  thing  as  statehood  and  so  does 
the  word  self-determination.  The  Kurds  in  Iraq  want  statehood. 

It's  a  lot  easier  to  form  a  state  than  it  is  to  form  a  nation.  In  fact  you  can't 
form  a  nation.  You  could  have  a  group  of  people  that  wanted  a  state  who 
wouldn't  necessarily  be  a  nation.  For  example :  The  Congo  Republic.  I  don't 
think  you  can  produce  a  definition  for  the  Congo  that  produces  a  nation  out 
of  that.  You  might  have  a  state.  If  you're  speaking  of  statehood  for  the  Negro 
people,  then  you're  speaking  of  a  different  country,  or  you're  speaking  of  some 
kind  of  separate  political  subdivision  within  the  country.  Then  questions  of 
boundaries  are  the  essence.  Then  you  have  to  consider  the  South,  which  is  the 
only  place  where  black  people  have  a  direct  relationship  to  the  land  in  large 
numbers  and  have  a  great  concentration.  There  are  a  number  of  northern  ghettos, 
where  Negroes  are  inhabiting  a  particular  section  of  territory.  But  what  is  the 
developmental  status  of  these  places?  It  there  assimilation  going  on?  Is  there 
greater  concentration  going  on?  Are  there  separate  structures  being  built  up? 
I  don't  know.  You  don't  make  the  argument.  The  argument  that  there  should 
be  a  separate  party  for  black  people  because  they're  a  separate  nation  doesn't 
strike  me  as  the  right  reason.  You  might  agree  on  the  other  hand,  that  within 
the  socialist  revolutionary  front,  you've  got  to  have  some  structure  to  protect 
the  interests  of  Negro  people  in  this  country,  precisely  because  this  country  is 
founded  on  slavery,  and  developed  with  racism  as  an  organic  part  of  its  history, 
that  racism  is  an  organic  and  psychological  part  of  the  white  working  class,  and 
that  the  self-protection  of  the  black  people  requires  that  the  revolutionaries  set 
up  a  separate  protection  device  which  might  be  a  separate  party. 

For  example,  in  China,  you  have  nine  (9)  parties — a  separate  party  for 
artists,  for  intellectuals,  and  so  on,  all  of  whom  are  united  in  the  revolutionary 
front.  You  could  make  that  argument.  I  don't  know  if  it  would  require  a  separate 
party — but  it  would  be  a  lot  more  valid  to  examine  it  from  that  point  of  view. 
I  don't  see  that  you  can't  have  a  single  revolutionary  party  that  has  separate 
detachments  in  it.  Now  no  one  can  deny  that  you  need  black  organizations  at 
this  moment  to  organize  black  people.  We've  tried,  and  I  don't  say  without  suc- 
cess, but  without  the  success  that  black  organizers  would  have  had.  There 
is  the  Student  Non-Violent  Coordinating  Committee  experience  in  Mississippi 
which  is  a  different  type  of  struggle  than  ours.  They  have  less  handicaps.  White 
organizers  have  a  degree  of  success,  but  they  don't  have  the  kind  of  success  that 
black  organizers  have,  there  is  a  qualitative  difference.  You  have  to  have  a 
special  detachment  of  black  revolutionaries.  I  think  in  the  short  nm — in  the 
coming  period,  you  have  to  expect  a  rise  in  the  influence  of  the  black  petty- 
bourgeois,  precisely  because  it  is  in  the  interest  of  the  capitalist  class  to  pro- 
duce that  rising  influence  and  precisely  because  there  is  no  black  proletarian 
detachment  in  the  ranks  of  any  of  the  radical  movements.  Our  chief  task,  as 
for  example  in  the  south,  would  be  to  strengthen  the  working-class  voice — work- 
ing towards  working  class  leadership  which  becomes  revolutionary  leadership. 

MILT  ROSEN: 

When  the  giants  of  Marxist  thought  put  forward  propositions,  like  nation- 
hood, what  immediately  flowed  from  them  were  strategic  and  tactical  pro- 
grams to  make  the  theory  come  into  being.  The  ability  to  carry  forward  these 
strategies  made  the  theories  valid  or  invalid.  The  weakness  in  McAdoo's  pres- 
entation is  that  he  hasn't  presented  any  ideas  of  strategy.  That  doesn't  mean 
that  he  can't  or  won't  but  one  of  the  problems  here  today  is  that  he  hasn't 
and  therefore  it  is  too  much  of  an  abstraction  at  this  point  for  anyone  to  accept 
as  valid  unless  they  are  two  hearts  beating  as  one.  It  is  very  hard  to  debate 
out  something  without  some  further  development  of  the  idea.  In  defense  of 
Marxism-Leninism,  Marxism-Leninism  is  based  on  objective  laws  of  society  and 
nature,  and  that  theory  is  an  objective  theory.  Either  you  agree  with  it  or  you 
don't,  or  you  agree  with  some  of  it,  but  not  with  other  parts  of  it.  But  if  one  is 
a  Marxist-Leninist,  it  is  based  on  a  certain  objectivity  and  its  practitioners 
develop  and  practice  the  theory  based  on  an  objective  and  scientific  develop- 
ment. If  they  are  not  able  to  do  that  it  is  not  the  fault  of  the  theory,  it  is  the 
weakness  of  Marxist-Leninists.  Either  the  theory  is  universal  and  valid  or  it 
isn't ;  either  it  can  be  practised  with  objectivity  or  it  can't.  And  if  you  are  saying 
that  Marxism-Leninism  can't  be  practised  objectively,  based  on  its  objective  eval- 
uation of  society,  then  that's  what  you  have  to  say  and  fight  that  through  ;  other- 
wise the  concept  of  two  Marxist-Leninist  parties  in  this  particular  situation  I 
don't  think  is  valid.  More  to  the  point,  McAdoo  made  a  very  profound  observa- 


1110    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

tion — that  nationalism  is  a  very  strong  trend  among  the  Negro  i)eople  and  that 
it  is  a  petty  bourgeois  development,  and  that  in  some  instances  it  was  progressive 
and  that  in  some  instances  it  was  reactionary.  Unfortunately  he  didn't  say  where 
its  reactionary,  what  forces  today  are  reactionary  and  which  progressive,  al- 
though he  did  say  that  the  main  practitioners  are  reactionary,  but  he  didn't 
develop  who  was  positive.  In  any  event,  I  think  this  is  a  very  important  con- 
sideration. 

In  my  opinion  the  Negro  question  in  this  country  is  fundamentally  a  class 
question  and  that  in  the  course  of  any  class  struggle  various  political  tendencies 
develop  which  are  often  positive,  such  as  nationalism.  Our  task  is  to  see  what 
forces  are  positive,  encourage  them  and  win  them  over  to  a  class  point  of  view. 
In  that  sense  we  have  to  be  very  clear  what  we  mean  by  revolutionary  and  I 
want  to  underline  Morty's  point  of  view,  because  when  I  talk  about  revolutionary 
what  I  mean  is  that  you  want  to  overthrow  the  system  and  have  the  dictatorship 
of  the  proletariat.  A  bourgeois  revolutionist  wants  to  oust  one  bourgeoisie,  usually 
a  foreign  one,  and  supplant  it  with  a  native  bourgeoisie ;  that's  in  most  cases. 
While  in  many  instances  that's  a  good  thing,  that's  not  what  I'm  fighting  for ;  I'm 
fighting  for  the  dictatorship  of  the  proletariat.  When  I  talk  about  revolution  that 
what  I  mean.  The  reason  why  many  nationalists  here  are  reactionary  is  that, 
unlike  bourgeois  nationalists  in  other  countries,  bourgeois  nationalists  here  have 
no  independent  program  for  their  own  class  interests.  They  are  not  looking  to 
take  away  the  economic  base  from  the  white  ruling  class,  they  have  no  inde- 
pendent program  for  controlling  the  economy.  They  are  simply  trying  to  take  the 
rough  edges  off  the  racism  in  this  country  so  that  they  can  help  sell  it  together 
with  the  white  ruling  class,  that  is  the  so-called  American  democracy,  as  a  viable 
system.  They  say  "Look,  if  you  carry  on  these  vile  practices  you  won't  be  able 
to  fool  the  other  underdeveloped  people.  You'll  be  able  to  fool  them  better  if  you 
are  not  so  openly  racist."  The  Negro  bourgeoisie  in  the  main  is  not  advocating 
taking  away  the  economic  base  from  the  white  working  class.  There  are  some 
exceptions  but  we  will  have  to  examine  to  what  degree  they  are  moving  in  this 
direction  and  what  we  want  to  make  of  it  because  Malcolm  X  and  the  Muslims 
make  the  point  that  "Until  we  have  our  own  black  bourgeoisie  we  won't  be  free" 
and  I  don't  know  what  they  mean  by  that,  either  because  the  program  they  put 
forward  to  meet  even  that  demand  is  unrealistic,  because  the  main  position  has 
been  that  they  want  the  white  ruling  class  to  give  them  territory  and  land  where 
they  can  go  about  setting  up  their  black  bourgeoisie. 

I  personally  don't  think  that's  realistic — the  white  ruling  class  is  never  going 
to  give  anybody  anything,  certainly  not  a  lot  of  land — without  revolutionary 
struggle.  So  we  might  draw  the  conclusion  these  guys  are  phonies  and  though 
they  are  edging  aroimd  something  that  might  have  some  meaning,  they  are  not 
really  serious,  because  they  have  no  real  program,  no  serious  program  to  achieve 
it.  The  point  I'm  trying  to  make  here  is  that  I  think  that  in  this  country  we  may 
be  able  to  skip  a  stage  which  happens  in  other  countries.  In  Cuba  and  maybe 
Algeria  and  maybe  Ghana  and  a  number  of  other  areas  there  was  this  bourgeois 
nationalist  revolution  which  included  many  classes.  They  fought  against  a  colo- 
nial oppressor,  the  United  States,  and  later  moved  to  set  up  the  dictatorship  of 
the  proletariat,  as  in  Cuba.  But  in  this  country,  because  the  black  bourgeoisie 
has  no  independent  class  perspective  of  its  own  and  has  no  plans  or  aspirations, 
at  least  as  far  as  one  can  determine,  for  the  ownership  of  the  means  of  produc- 
tion, (like  taking  it  away  and  fighting  physically  with  the  ruling  clas&)  possibly 
this  particular  phase  of  struggle  can  be  eliminated  and  what  we  should  concen- 
trate on  then  is  to  build  workers  movements  and  spend  far  more  time  exposing 
the  black  bourgeoisie  than  we  have.  The  Communist  Party's  position  was  that 
the  Negro  people's  movement  was  an  "all-class"  movement  and  we  have  found 
that  in  the  main  (there  are  exceptions)  the  black  petty  bourgeoisie  have  been 
universally  a  big  stumbling  block  to  Negro  militancy,  from  the  Muslims  to  King. 
The  concept  of  an  all  class  black  liberation  movement  is  a  wrong  concept  and  I 
think  we  should  think  instead  of  a  working  class  black  liberation  front  or  what- 
ever the  proper  terminology  is.  By  developing  the  strength  of  the  workers  and 
exposing  the  vacillations  of  and  explaining  why  these  guys  vacillate,  it  could  be 
possible  to  break  away  certain  sections  of  the  black  petty  bourgeoisie  based  on 
independent  workers  strength,  and  make  some  of  these  guys  come  over  to  the 
side  of  the  workers.  I'm  not  saying  that  it  is  in  the  cards  that  all  the  black  petty 
bourgeoisie  have  to  end  up  in  the  hands  of  the  white  ruling  class.  I'm  only  saying 
that  without  a  powerful  workers  movement  that  is  where  they  will  end  up. 
Secondly,  I  think  that  the  question  of  land,  from  all  that  we've  heard  about  the 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1111 

south,  is  a  fundamental  question.  There  has  to  be  a  fight  made  for  land.  But  how 
is  a  fight  usually  made  for  land  which  is  owned  by  somebody  else. 

The  only  way  I  know  of  is  that  you  have  to  take  it  away  from  them.  At  this 
stage,  I  don't  see  a  successful  legislative  battle  to  get  the  southern  oligarchy  to 
cede  land  territory  to  the  black  people.  I  don't  think  that's  realistic.  In  the  South 
that  is  the  only  way  I  see  doing  it.  That  means  developing  a  set  of  strategy  and 
tactics  to  get  this  land.  You  got  to  be  stronger  than  they  are  and  you  have  to  have 
allies.  The  subjective  concept  that  militates  against  alliances  and  allies  is  simply 
a  disaster  and  simply  irresponsible.  You  can  get  bonaflde  allies  only  on  the  basis 
of  your  own  strength,  but  you  have  to  have  allies  and  you  have  to  find  the  ways 
of  finding  allies  even  when  they  are  hostile.  You  have  to  face  the  question,  "Can 
white  people  who  are  today  the  sharpest  chauvinists  be  won  over  to  common 
struggle?"  I  personally  think  that  it  is  possible,  but  you  have  to  face  it  frankly 
because  many  Negroes  and  whites  will  say  that  the  white  workers  are  no  good 
now,  they  were  no  good  before  and  they  are  never  going  to  be  any  good.  You 
either  have  to  refute  that  argument  or  accept  it.  If  you  are  going  to  get  allies 
which  ones  are  you  talking  about?  If  the  allies  aren't  going  to  be  the  southern 
oligarchy,  and  the  rich  and  middle  white  forces  in  the  south,  the  only  ones  left 
are  the  workers.  In  the  North  we  have  to  have  strategy,  long  range  strategy, 
where  the  Negro  workers  begin  to  control  their  communities  in  slow  but  sure 
stages.  Examples — Rent  strikes,  Harlem  Defense  Council — exposing  the  two 
party  system.  This  can't  happen  right  away.  But  when  people  begin  to  control 
their  communities  and  their  political  affairs  it  also  puts  them  in  the  position  of 
having  to  control  the  fundamental  thing,  that  is,  their  economic  affairs.  But  these 
ghettos  physically  have  no  relationship  to  the  means  of  production.  The  workers 
are  here  and  the  means  of  production  are  someplace  else.  To  have  freedom  you 
have  to  have  the  means  of  production.  To  have  freedom  and  to  starve  is  not 
exactly  the  greatest  victory. 

The  logic  of  the  situation  is  that  you  are  not  going  to  build  a  new  steel  plant 
in  the  middle  of  Harlem  when  you  have  one  sitting  in  Oamden,  New  Jersey.  How 
are  you  going  to  get  this  thing?  You  first  have  to  have  the  revolutionary  strategy 
of  taking  it  away  because  it  doesn't  do  you  much  good  to  control  the  slums  unless 
you  have  the  means  to  change  the  slums.  That  would  compel  the  Negro  workers 
into  alliances  with  white  workers.  That  means  you  have  to  start  figuring  out  now 
how  you  are  going  to  unite  these  forces,  at  least  on  a  long  range  basis,  and  what 
steps  have  to  be  taken  to  overcome  the  obstacles  to  that  unity  today.  I  believe 
this  is  the  difference  between  a  working  class  revolutionary  outlook  and  others. 
No  natioaali.st  force  is  express  these  ideas  today.  We  are  critical  of  this.  We  say  if 
you  don't  do  these  things,  how  can  you  be  free?  Suppo.se  a  black  liberation  front 
came  into  being,  what  would  we  try  to  influence  it  to  do?  If  we  were  to  help 
launch  a  black  liberation  front  or  if  a  black  liberation  front  were  to  come  into 
existence  even  without  us — which  is  probably  more  likely  the  case,  because  we 
don't  have  that  much  influence— we  have  some,  but  I  don't  put  too  much  stock 
in  what  we  could  accomplish  on  our  own.  We  could  help  it.  We'd  have  to  present 
a  class  perspective.  That's  what  Marxism-Leninism  is.  It  is  the  alliance  of  farm- 
ers and  workers  to  seize  the  means  of  production.  I  don'  think  the  people  today 
are  prepared  to  move  for  these  things  but  I  think  we  should  project  these  things 
as  viable  and  as  the  only  systematic  way  of  going  about  it,  and  develop  a  whole 
number  of  intermediate  strategies  such  as  rent  control,  taking  over  houses,  de- 
fense against  police,  seeking  to  take  over  certain  territory,  use  of  the  electoral 
process  and  so  on.  Far  more  fundamental  is  at  all  times  to  hold  forward  a  revolu- 
tionary solution  to  the  problems  that  confront  the  people.  Simply  protesting 
isn't  enough.  We've  all  said  that  picket  lines  and  just  the  mere  act  of  protest 
is  insuflScient,  because  there's  been  all  forms  of  direct  mass  action,  and  we've 
all  said  that  these  haven't  changed  anything.  We've  said,  "Look  at  the  integra- 
tion movement — thousands  in  jail,  thousands  on  the  picket  lines,  chained  to  the 
pillars,  stall  ins,  mow  downs  and  whatever,  and  while  this  reflects  a  great  deal  of 
courage  and  militancy  on  the  part  of  the  participants,  we've  all  said,  categori- 
cally, black  and  white,  that  this  ain't  getting  anybody  anyplace.  We  go  so  far 
as  to  call  people  who  do  that  phonies — which  I  don't  agree  with.  Some  of  the 
leaders  are  phonies,  but  not  the  individual  participants.  I  think  they're  good 
people. 

I  don't  think  nationalism  is  in  any  shape,  manner  or  form  a  revolutionary 
theory,  I  think  it  is  a  lower  level  of  political  struggle  which  is  a  first  step  towards 
revolutionary  struggle,  unless  you  are  talking  about  setting  up  a  new  dictatorship 
of  a  new  bourgeoisie,  and  I  don't  think  that  as  Marxists-Leninists  that  is  our 
task.  If  a  black  bourgeoisie  develops  that  comes  into  sharp  struggle  and  has  a 

88-083  O — 68 — pt.  2 13 


1112    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

program  of  its  own,  with  the  white  bourgeoisie,  then  we  see  how  to  utilize  a 
struggle  between  bourgeois  nationalism  and  imperialism  to  further  advance  the 
interests  of  the  workers.  When  Bill  refers  to  the  development  of  nationalism  in 
the  Negro  community,  I  think  in  the  main,  he's  referring  to  the  sentiments  of 
thousands  of  black  workers  who  are  fed  up,  who  are  hostile  to  white  bosses, 
white  workers,  to  anything  white,  and  want  to  do  something  about  it — not  just 
because  they  want  to  do  something  against  white  people,  but  they  see  white  as 
their  enemy,  and  they  want  to  do  something  to  help  themselves,  they  want  to 
change  the  conditions  in  which  they  live.  So  we  say  that's  positive,  even  though 
within  the  framework  of  that  there's  certain  negative  characteristics.  We  help 
move  these  i)eople.  But  what's  the  job  as  communists?  We're  not  interested  in 
moving  them  against  white  workers — we're  interested  in  moving  them  against 
the  ruling  class,  where  necessary  and  if  it  has  to  be,  yes,  to  fight  against  white 
workers — wherever  and  whenever  that  case  comes  up.  The  main  thing  is  this 
nationalism  among  black  workers- — which  is  different  than  nationalism  among 
black  petty  bourgeoisie.  This  is  the  positive  aspect  of  nationalism,  and  that's 
where  we  want  to  work,  and  that's  what  we  want  to  encourage.  It  means  orga- 
nization and  a  million  and  one  things.  It  means  a  program  for  that  movement 
which  takes  it  into  a  stage-by-stage  contradiction  with  the  ruling  class,  and 
which,  in  my  opinion  takes  it  closer  and  closer  into  alliance  with  the  white 
workers.  The  job  of  the  white  revolutionaries  is  to  bring  the  white  workers  into 
sharper  and  sharper  contradiction  with  the  ruling  class,  as  best  as  possible  to  de- 
feat white  chauvinism  among  white  workers,  not  on  a  humanistic  basic,  but  in 
terms  of  their  own  self-interest,  and  to  bring  them  to  closer  and  closer  ties  and 
alliances  with  the  black  workers.  That  may  very  well  be  what  was  said  before 
but  I  don't  know  that  that  makes  it  wrong.  I  think  that  one  of  the  things  that 
was  essentially  wrong  before  was  a  mechanical  application  of  Stalin's  theory 
of  the  national  question  to  this  country.  You  (McAdoo)  may  think  it  was  mechan- 
ical from  one  aspect  and  I  may  think  so  from  another. 
MOADOO  : — You  mean  the  white  liberal  mentality  in  the  party  ? 
MILT  ROSEN : — Yes,  I  don't  think  that  has  to  develop  now.  I  think  that  the 
basic  relationship  of  Negro  and  white  in  the  movement  and  outside  the  move- 
ment, in  terms  of  who's  running  whom  only  develops  in  the  sense  of  "does  the 
party  have  a  revolutionary  policy?"  If  the  party  has  a  revolutionary  policy  and 
program  then  these  questions  will  be  reduced  to  where  they  properly  stand. 
Therefore,  it's  the  work  of  the  party — ^black  and  white — to  evaluate  whether 
the  party  is  moving  in  a  revolutionary  direction,  whether  it's  really  expressing 
the  sentiments  of  the  black  workers  and  the  white  workers,  taking  into  account 
that  there  are  great  discrepancies  in  the  particular  conditions  of  white  workers 
and  black  workers.  If  it's  not  doing  that,  then  you're  going  to  impose  a  tailist 
position  on  more  militant  sections  of  the  people,  and  you're  going  to  come  into 
contradiction  with  them,  and  you're  going  to  sell  them  out.  I  don't  know  that  the 
safeguard  for  that  is  having  two  parties.  Otherwise,  you're  only  talking  about 
a  subjective  character  to  these  two  parties.  That's  a  subjective  thing.  The  ob- 
jective thing  is  to  put  forward  a  revolutionary  line,  because  you  could  have  a 
black  Marxist-Leninist  party,  which  could  develop  a  revisionist  line.  But  I  do 
think  that  in  this  case  where  there  are  strong  national  feelings  among  Negro 
workers,  we  have  to  be  particularly  sensitive  to  this  question,  and  to  see  how  at 
this  stage  of  the  game  not  to  come  into  head-on  collisions  with  these  sentiments. 
In  other  words,  white  people,  and  white  Marxists-Leninists  and  the_party  as  a 
whole  have  to  see  how  to  prevent  this.  We  take  steps  to  meet  this  in  the  work  in 
Harlem.  On  the  other  hand,  I  don't  think  anybody  would  think  it  was  bad  if  in 
2  years  there  were  %  a  million  black  and  white  workers  down  at  City  Hall 
throwing  Wagner  into  the  East  River. 

MOADOO: — ^My  point  what  we  should  study  what  has  happened  to  the  ap- 
plication of  Marxism-Leninism  to  this  question  in  the  past.  On  the  question  of 
two  parties,  and  on  whether  the  Negro  people  are  a  nation.  It  was  not  I  who  said 
that  the  Negro  people  were  a  nation.  I  simply  stated  that  if  one  of  Stalin's  points 
were  the  only  thing  we  had  to  consider,  and  if  we  looked  at  it  in  a  certain  way, 
then  we  would  have  to  consider  the  Negro  people  a  nation — that  related  to  ter- 
ritory. I  suggested  two  parties  as  one  possible  method  to  deal  with  a  particular 
problem.  My  thoughts  are  not  fixed.  I  think  the  tactical  criticism  is  valid,  and 
I  would  like  for  that  reason  to  talk  about  Harlem^ — the  period  from  the  18th  of 
July  to  the  25th  of  July.  In  that  period  we  made  a  lot  of  mistakes,  and  we  did 
a  lot  of  things  that  were  correct.  We  gained  a  small  victory  and  a  big  defeat.  The 
main  reason  was  because  there  was  no  concept  of  the  relationship  of  forces  there. 
We  had  the  opportunity  to  bring  multitudes  of  people  close  to  us — not  just  in 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1113 

Harlem,  but  in  Bedford-Stuyvesant,  Jamaica,  etc.  Had  we  had  the  program,  and 
skill  in  organizing.  We  failed.  The  unity  committee  joined  with  the  ruling  class 
and  opposed  us — but  there  were  people  who  wanted  to  line  up  with  us — to  come 
down  and  demonstrate  with  us.  But  did  we  go  over  there  and  debate  them?  No. 
We  spent  too  much  time  condemning  without  looking  at  the  relationship  of  forces, 
and  we  spent  our  time  with  Overton,  Lawson,  etc.  who  are  some  of  the  most 
ardent  supporters  of  the  ruling  class,  trying  to  negotiate. 

We  didn't  organize  at  that  moment — and  the  idea  of  organizing  at  such  move- 
ment is  alien  to  the  left.  They  accepted  it  as  a  riot,  and  not  a  rebellion.  They 
helped  strip  it  of  any  justification  and  dignity.  We  didn't  get  the  support  we 
needed  and  could  have  gotten  even  from  the  East  Side  Club.  Someone  said  the 
majority  of  the  Negro  people  are  in  the  Democratic  party.  Did  they  call  the 
rebellion?  No.  It's  not  in  their  interest.  So  I  don't  know  what  significance  that 
point  has.  Another  aspect  of  the  rebellion — admitted  by  all  bourgeois  writers  is 
that  it  wasn't  a  race  riot — but  a  rebellion  against  the  powers  to  be — a  class 
struggle.  Even  they  recognize  a  new  quality  of  struggle,  in  Harlem,  Philadelphia, 
etc. 

From  a  practical  point  of  view,  when  we  discuss  whether  the  Negroes  are  a 
nation,  we  have  to  examine  situations  like  this — because  it's  a  moment  of  truth 
which  let's  us  know  what  the  relationship  of  forces  are.  \^^lat  did  the  reactionary 
nationalists  do  ?  Those  that  weren't  on  the  unity  committee — ready  to  beat  the  hell 
out  of  us — kept  their  mouths  shut,  like  Malcolm  X  and  his  group.  We  just  asked 
them  to  read  a  statement  he  made  over  in  Africa.  They  wouldn't  do  it.  Lawson, 
representative  of  the  Negro  wine  sellers  association,  and  the  little  Negro  banks — 
we  know  what  he  did.  He  organized  a  goon  squad  to  beat  the  hell  out  of  us.  We 
could  have  known  that  before.  In  the  unity  committee  we  could  have  won  some 
of  them  over,  however,  we  were  inexperienced,  and  we  hadn't  done  enough 
practical  work.  That's  why  we  failed. 

FRED :  I'm  not  sure  that  the  defeat  was  bigger  than  the  victory — but  mistakes 
were  certainly  made.  I  tend  to  think  that  the  overall  result  was  positive.  Be  that 
as  it  may,  McAdoo's  criticisms  are  largely  valid.  Milt's  and  McAdoo's  remarks 
provide  us  with  a  very  interesting  structure  within  which  to  continue  this  dis- 
cussion. McAdoo  mentioned  but  didn't  stress — our  lack  of  a  theoretical  position 
at  that  point.  That  was  also  key.  That  went  hand  in  hand  with  the  organizational 
weaknesses.  Milt  has  made  an  important  theoretical  assertion.  That  is,  that  in  the 
U.S.  today,  given  the  industrialized,  advanced  capitalist  nature  of  the  country, 
that  it  is  possible  to  skip  the  separate  stage  of  the  completion  of  the  bourgeois 
democratic  revolution  for  the  Negro  people.  The  completion  of  the  bourgeois 
democratic  revolution  will  come  about  simultaneously  with  achievement  of  the 
socialist  revolution.  Not  that  all  struggles  for  one  have  to  be  the  same  as  for  the 
other.  The  emphasis  then  becomes  a  class  emphasis  in  the  struggle.  In  evaluating 
the  relationship  of  forces,  what's  your  criteria  for  evaluating  them?  Milt's 
position  becomes  framework  for  these  criteria  of  evaluation.  In  other  words, 
what  is  their  relationship  to  the  development  of  a  working  class  and  a  class 
approach  within  the  black  liberation  movement,  their  base,  their  consciousness, 
their  potential,  direction,  and  so  on?  We  may  have  been  doing  this  without  think- 
ing about  it  in  the  past  But  there  are  people  in  this  organization  who  do  n.ot 
think  it  is  possible  to  skip  that  stage.  I've  never  seen  that  proposal  written 
anywhere — or  discussed  theoretically.  I  tend  to  agree  with  it.  I  think  that  dis- 
cussion is  crucial. 

UNA  MULZAC :  I  just  want  to  make  some  remarks  on  July  25th,  etc.  I  wasn't 
in  the  country  at  that  time,  but  I  think  that  the  ruling  class  in  the  U.S.  received 
a  real  jolt  in  their  propaganda  when  they  arrested  Bill  Epton  and  the  others. 
This  is  the  way  people  in  other  coimtries  looked  at  it — the  ruling  class  was  pre- 
sented as  leaders  of  the  so-called  "free  world",  and  yet  they  prevent  people  from 
expressing  objections  to  oppression  in  their  own  country.  When  the  news  was 
flashed  over  the  radio,  it  was  presented  as  "Here  are  the  most  courageous  people 
in  the  United  States  standing  up  against  the  most  terrorist  state  forces  in  the 
world".  Millions  of  people  around  the  world  saw  this  as  a  new  stage.  As  to  the 
question  of  whether  the  results  were  more  negative  than  positive — I  certainly 
think  they  were  more  positive. 

MCADOO:  It  wasn't  an  easy  question  to  decide  whether  to  carry  out  this 
march.  We  knew  the  police  were  going  to  send  Lawson's  goons  after  us — and 
photograph  it.  We  didn't  want  to  allow  them  to  make  it  seem  as  though  black 
was  fighting  black— that  the  majority  of  the  people  in  Harlem  were  against  this 
rebellion — ^and  against  us.  Another  tactical  consideration  was  whether  we  could 
win  sections  of  the  unity  committee  over  to  us.  We  decided  to  go  ahead  with  the 


1114   SUBVERSIVE  ZNTLUENCES  EST  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

march.  We  had  the  people  to  protect  us — many  who  belong  to  various  nationalist 
organizations.  We  also  decided  that  though  we  were  going  to  carry  out  the 
march — we  were  going  to  instruct  the  people  to  allow  the  police  to  seize  us.  This 
was  the  march  which  made  headlines  all  over  the  world  and  brought  in  a  differ- 
ent concept  to  the  whole  picture.  That's  a  victory.  But  what  have  we  con- 
solidated out  of  this  victory  ?  What  new  forces  have  we  brought  to  us  and  put  into 
motion?  So  little  that  when  the  attack  came,  we  began  losing  people.  People  who 
had  been  militant  just  dropped  away.  In  terms  of  what  we  could  have  had,  we 
suffered  a  defeat. 

SELMA  SPARKS :  I  don't  want  to  be  second  guessing  you,  but  the  defeat  came 
about  because  there  was  a  lack  of  a  base  in  the  community.  You  must  have  some- 
thing of  your  own.  If  we  have  something  of  our  own  it  must  be  based  in  our  com- 
munity otherwise  its  not  ours.  No  white  led,  white  run  organization  can  have  a 
base  in  the  black  community.  When  people  know  you  are  part  of  a.  white  group, 
you  don't  have  the  support,  you  cannot.  Randolph  said  black  communists  are 
carriers  of  water  for  white  communists.  Whatever  you  may  think  of  the  man,  this 
happens  to  be  a  truth  in  the  minds  of  most  people  because  it  was  true  in  the  old 
OP.  They  are  not  for  the  integrated  left  organizations.  You  deal  with  people 
where  they  are  now  and  not  where  you  hope  them  to  be  five  years  from  now. 
VTliere  is  the  black  average  person  today?  Is  he  in  the  camp  of  black-white  unity? 
He  is  not.  Neither  is  the  average  white  worker.  You  have  to  organize  accord- 
ingly, always  knowing  that  as  the  level  raises  you  come  to  the  point  where  you 
can  unite.  You  can't  do  it  today.  You  have  to  begin  concentration  developing 
a  black  revolutionary  concept  and  a  black  revolutionary  grouping,  a  movement 
based  on  the  black  community  with  black  leadership — a  black  organization,  not 
a  white  revolutionary  group  being  kind  enough  to  incorporate  in  it  black  revolu- 
tionaries. The  paternalism  in  that  concept  defeated  the  old  left. 
MILT  ROSEN:  Just  let  me  interject — what  Selma  is  arguing  is  very  much 
to  the  point  although  I  don't  agree  with  what  she  ways.  First  of  all  the  old  CP 
(Oommunist  Party)  didn't  lose  whatever  base  it  had  among  the  Negro  people 
because  the  white  leaders  in  the  CP  controlled  the  Negro  leaders,  although  that 
was  the  case.  It  lost  its  base  not  because  of  a  subjective  factor,  but  because  it 
abandoned  its  revolutionary  outlook.  Sometimes  people  see  what  is  superficial, 
though  correct,  but  not  what  is  fundamental.  For  us  it  is  more  important  to 
see  what  is  fundamental  and  not  what  is  the  end  result  of  an  incorrect  policy. 
In  the  second  place,  there  is  a  great  contradiction  between  what  you  say  and  what 
Bill  McAdoo  says,  because  people  by  the  hundreds  came  to  the  Progressive 
Labor  Movement,  and  integrated  organization,  and  he  says  they  came  there 
whether  they  knew  it  was  integrated  or  they  didn't  know  it  was  integrated. 
Hundreds  of  people  only  came  there.  They  went  no  place  else.  And  the  reason 
they  came  there  was  because,  as  he  says,  this  was  the  only  center  which  afforded 
the  people  some  avenue  of  leadership  and  some  avenue  of  struggle  when  all 
others  abandoned  it.  Where  there  are  leaders,  black  leaders,  and  when  there  is 
a  program  to  suit  the  needs  of  the  black  people,  that  is  the  fundamental  con- 
sideration. We  didn't  make  the  breakthrough  precisely  because  the  black  cadre 
that  we  had  in  this  particular  situation  reflected  not  only  their  own  weaknesses 
of  the  Marxist-Leninist  movement  and  did  not  have  the  strength  or  the  ideologi- 
cal wherewithall  to  make  this  breakthrough.  I  dare  say  if  we  would  have  done  all 
the  things  everybody  wanted  us  to  do  we  would  have  made  that  breakthrough, 
even  though  PL  is  a  white  organization.  And  then  what  would  you  say-?  We  didn't 
win  the  people  because  we  didn't  do  the  work,  and  we  weren't  in  a  position  to  do 
the  work  both  physically  and  ideologically,  and  that's  all  of  our  weaknesses.  We 
didn't  lay  the  groundwork  and  when  it  happened  we  were  weak.  So  I  don't  see 
how  your  arguments  hold  water  except  in  the  sense  that  Negro  workers  have 
national  feelings,  and  this  is  only  one  part  of  a  big  story. 

SELMA  SPARKS:  Except  for  one  thing— had  the  group  (Bill  Epton  and 
group)  had  their  base  in  the  community,  had  they  known  that  they  had  to  depend 
on  that,  they  would  have  done  the  work  necessary  to  organize  the  people,  because 
they  would  not  have  made  a  move  without  having  the  people  there. 
MILT  ROSEN:  For  the  sake  of  fact,  Bill  Epton,  because  of  a  whole  series  of 
reasons  was  the  Negro  cadre  in  Harlem  and,  he  worked  no  place  else  but  Harlem. 
He  knew  this  before ;  that's  all  he  did.  All  this  shows  is  a  whole  combination  of 
weaknesses.  You're  saying  that  if  Bill  Epton  had  done  all  this  work,  then  this 
wouldn't  have  happened.  I'm  saying  he  did  do  all  this  work,  but  that's  all  he 
oould  produce.  That's  not  a  criticism  of  him. 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTESTG,  AND  BURNING    1115 

LARRY  PHELPS  :  What  I'd  like  to  emphasize  is  Freddy's  discussion  of  criteria 
to  evaluate  the  work,  and  the  development.  Milt  said,  "we  must  develop 
a  program  which  takes  into  account  the  stage  by  stage  struggle  against  the 
ruling  class."  You  said  that  struggles  around  rent  strikes,  HDC's,  etc.  Could 
lead  from  struggles  in  the  community  to  struggles  for  the  seizure  of  factories. 
What  I  would  contrast  with  the  stage-by-stage  theory  is  my  idea  that  we  don't 
need  intermediate  goals.  I'm  not  saying  I'm  against  such  things  as  a  third 
party  or  a  second  labor  front  at  some  future  time,  It  is  obvious  that  in  almost 
every  Southern  Negro  community,  some  kind  of  community  self-defense  will 
develop.  There  are  15  points  for  a  program  for  action  in  the  convention  bulletin. 
My  emphasis  would  be  that  it  is  not  these  demands  which  lead  to  struggle, 
but  it  is  the  political  interpretation  of  these  various  issues,  which  if  carried 
to  the  mass  organizations — people  are  struggling  over  these  things  now.  What 
is  crucial  is  that  they  don't  have  any  conception  of  the  nature  of  their  struggle. 
That  conception  comes  from  the  political  analysis  you  give  of  that  particular 
issue — the  political  conditions  which  you  describe  which  are  necessary  for  the 
completion  of  that  issue.  Now  that  doesn't  presuppose  that  your  political  analysis 
always  says  that  only  under  socialism  will  this  happen.  What  is  really  necessary 
is  not  just  calling  for  the  seizure  of  territory,  but  getting  down  to  the  hard  work 
of  politicalizing.  Trying  to  explain  the  political  implications  of  every  issue  that 
arises.  We  were  involved  in  a  number  of  issues  in  Monroe — ^the  contacts  were 
as  good  as  we  could  expect  in  the  situation.  But  there  was  no  consistent  attitude 
toward  political  agitation.  That  is  the  major  weakness  of  our  organization. 
The  level  of  our  agitation  has  been  on  the  level  of  the  consciousness  of  the  people 
where  they  are  now.  From  my  reading  of  Challenge,  it  seems  to  me  that  you're 
telling  people  in  Harlem  what  they  already  know.  Insofar  as  systematic  elevation, 
this  is  not  occurring. 

MCADOO:  Milt  is  saying  that  the  struggle  for  national  liberation  is  part  of 
the  class  struggle.  That's  fundamental  and  I  agree  with  him.  But  we  have  a 
problem  to  deal  with — the  one  Selma  posed.  On  the  25th  of  July,  we  got  a 
phone  call  from  a  group  of  people  who  want  to  come  down  and  join  the  march — 
a  white  group.  They  came  down  to  Harlem;  they  wanted  to  join  the  march. 
Our  response  was  to  send  them  out  of  Harlem.  We  said  to  them,  "Don't  you 
have  anything  in  your  commimity  you  can  do  for  us?"  They  couldn't  understand 
why  we  didn't  want  them.  We  kicked  them  out.  If  we  had  allowed  them  to  stay 
the  result  might  have  been  disastrous,  for  us  in  Harlem.  Because  we  have  to 
resolve  this  problem,  does  not  mean  we  necessarily  need  two  parties.  The  fact 
is  that  the  whole  so-called  civil  rights  movement  is  white-controlled,  white  run, 
white  liberal,  and  the  money  comes  from  them,  and  they  set  up  the  program, 
and  this  has  been  history.  Part  of  the  weakness  for  not  working  to  break  the 
ban  in  Harlem,  and  raise  money  was  because  certain  of  the  people  in  Harlem 
thought  that  the  money  was  forthcoming  out  of  a  gold  cup,  downtown.  Whatever 
we  say,  it  is  the  first  task  of  white  revolutionaries  to  confront  reaction  in  white 
neighborhoods. 

MORTY :  I  want  to  start  with  one  point  Milt  made  that  I  don't  agree  with. 
There's  two  ways  of  posing  the  question — that  the  Negro  question  is  funda- 
mentally a  national  question,  which  is  ultimately  a  class  question,  or  is  it  simply 
a  class  question.  The  question  of  skipping  the  stage  of  an  anti-imperialist  national 
revolution  (which  I  think  is  different  from  a  bourgeois  democratic  revolution), 
gives  rise  to  the  seeming  contradiction  between  what  Selma  is  saying  and  what 
Milt  is  saying.  The  difference  between  a  bourgeois  democratic  revolution  and 
an  anti-imperialist  national  revolution :  I  think  that  the  concept  of  the  comple- 
tion of  the  bourgeois  democratic  revolution  gives  rise  to  the  idea  that  the 
bourgeoisie  of  this  country  is  going  to  complete  this  revolution.  An  anti-imperial- 
ist nationalist  revolution  implies  a  struggle  against  the  bourgeoisie  for  demo- 
cratic demands.  If  we  evaluate  it  as  a  class  question,  we  will  only  take  national 
feelings  into  account  tactically.  I  think  that  would  be  an  error.  It  would  also 
lead  to  errors  of  a  sectarian  character  toward  other  class  sectors  of  the  Negro 
people.  I  view  it  as  a  national  liberation  movement.  A  movement  that  goes 
beyond  the  working  class,  involving  other  classes.  The  national  bourgeois  will 
split,  a  sector  going  over  to  the  imperialists,  another  sector  being  won  over  under 
the  pressure  of  a  working  class  leadership.  But  because  it  is  a  national  libera- 
tion movement,  whether  we  want  them  to  or  not — ^national  liberation  organiza- 
tions will  emerge  among  the  people.  The  question  is — as  Marxists-Leninists, 
who  have  the  orientation  that  in  order  achieve  freedom — the  means  of  pro- 
duction have  to  be  seized  and  the  state  power  has  to  be  smashed,  what  is  the 


1116    SUBVERSIVE  mFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

role  of  Marxists-Leninists  within  the  liberation  front  and  there  is  where  the 
class  position  emerges.  Marxists-Leninists  don't  take  a  bourgeois  nationalist 
position  within  the  national  liberation  front.  This  happens  in  all  national  libera- 
tion fronts — when  the  party  just  takes  a  bourgeois  nationalist  position,  the 
national  bourgeoisie  will  lead  the  revolution.  The  party  has  to  be  the  working- 
class  sector  which  bi*ings  forward  a  class  position,  taking  into  account  that  it  is 
objectively  a  national  liberation  movement. 

The  objective  of  smashing  the  imperialists  economically  and  politically  can 
only  be  achieved  by  the  class  as  a  whole.  The  party  of  the  class  should  be  one 
party.  I  don't  see  why  this  lessens  the  ability  of  the  black  comrades  to  build 
an  independent  black  revolutionary  movements.  One  of  the  comrades  on  the 
coast,  who  comes  from  the  Afro-American  National  Association,  tried  to  build 
a  black  liberation  front  (GOBRA),  ran  into  very  serious  problems.  Some  nation- 
alists wanted  to  do  things  for  which  there  was  no  political  base.  Other  national- 
ists just  directed  fire  at  the  civil  rights  leadership,  without  bringing  forward  an 
alternative  program,  because,  in  effect  they  didn't  want  to  work  among  the 
masses,  on  a  day  to  day  basis.  And  he  was  a  member  of  PL.  And  they  made  a 
frontal  attack  on  the  point  Selma  raised — "Are  you  still  black"?  They  kept 
asking  him  "in  that  white  man's  organization."  Theoretically  he  felt  he  was 
correct,  but  not  having  a  base,  in  practice  it  was  a  real  contradiction — they 
couldn't  resolve  it.  At  this  time,  I  don't  think  the  Marxist-Leninist  party  will 
attract  masses  of  black  people  to  it,  because  of  the  depth  of  white  chauvinism 
in  this  country,  and  because  of  the  depth  of  nationalism.  I  think  a  black  revolu- 
tionary front  can  be  developed  and  should  be  developed,  and  we  should  support 
it,  and  advocate  it.  After  all,  the  fight  to  establish  a  revolution  in  this  country 
and  the  fight  to  establish  socialism  isn't  based  on  conditions  today.  I  think  it 
wovild  be  a  real  strategic  defeat  to  launch  a  program  where  the  vanguard,  the 
most  class  conscious  forces  in  the  country,  say  it's  impossible  to  work  within 
the  same  organization.  But  I  think  that  this  would  be  capitulation  both  to  white 
chauvinism  and  nationalism,  even  though  in  an  immediate  sense,  we  must  take 
into  account  the  feelings  of  the  people.  In  the  long  range  sense  it  reflects  a 
defeatist  attitude  on  this  question.  We  should  hold  before  the  people  the  possi- 
bility of  unity  of  revolutionaries — working  class  revolutionaries. 
ALICE  JEROME  :  I  think  there  is  some  confusion  as  to  the  differences  between 
the  formation  of  a  mass  organization  and  a  Marxist-Leninist  party.  If  you  had 
today  a  completely  black  organization  in  Harlem — ^with  PL's  policies — you  would 
still  not  have  a  mass  membership,  because  the  masses  of  black  workers,  just  like 
the  masses  of  white  workers,  are  not  yet  ready  to  take  a  Marxist-Lenin  posi- 
tion. We  haven't  done  enough  work  among  them ;  we  haven't  had  enough  strug- 
gles among  them ;  we  haven't  won  them  over  yet.  But  there  is  a  difference  be- 
tween a  masis  movement  which  is  possible  to  have  today  on  a  more  minimum  pro- 
gram than  a  complete  Marxist-Leninist  party — ^which  is  what  we  are  talking 
about  when  we  say  an  anti-imperialist  liheration  front.  If  this  building  of  an 
anti-imperialist  national  liberation  movement  is  done  at  the  present  time,  in 
Harlem  and  in  other  Negro  communities,  by  black  Marxists,  as  you  gradually  re- 
cruit people  to  a  Marxist-Leninist  position,  those  people  will  be  just  as  ready  as 
yoTi  are,  as  they  become  Marxists-Leninists  to  work  essentially  within  a  working 
class  organization — an  organization  that  is  formed  on  a  class  basis  of  Marxist- 
Leninists,  both  hlack  and  white.  I  don't  think  yon  can  skip  the  stage  of  working 
with  the  national  anti-imperialist  liberation  movement.  That  is  wliathas  to  be 
built,  and  that  is  what  there  is  a  basis  for  building,  through  the  struggles  that 
were  begun.  Often  we  have  made  the  mistake  in  the  past  of  confusing  our  posi- 
tion the  feeling  we  have  to  take  the  Marxist-Leninist  position  that  matches  the 
level  of  consciousness  of  the  people  at  a  given  movement.  We  know  that  the  level 
of  consciousness  of  the  i>eople  is  not  the  same  as  the  level  of  consfiousnes  of  the 
vanguard  organization.  And  we  can't  irim  one  to  the  other.  But  that  doesn't  mean 
that  we  can  just  ignore — we  have  to  work  at  the  level  of  consciousness  of  the 
people.  We  have  to  work  with  each  group  where  they  are,  and  we  have  to  carry  on 
struggles  where  they  are,  but  we  still  do  not  have  to  trim  our  ultimate  and  stra- 
tegic program,  as  a  Marxist-Leninist  movement,  to  the  level  of  consciousnesis  of 
any  group  of  people. 

Certainly,  if  we  tried  to  trim  it  to  the  level  of  consciousness  of  the  white  work- 
ing class,  which  is  below  that  of  the  Negro  working  class — where  would  be  be? 
We'd  have  no  basis  for  a  Marxist-Leninist  program.  I  don't  think  there's  any 
need  for  assuming  that  as  tliis  Marxist-Leninist  organization  is  able  to  recruit 
people  who  really  understand  the  vanguard  position,  that  the  white  working 
clasis  is  going  to  necessarily  have  hegemony  in  that  organization.  If  we  go  by  the 


SUBVERSIVE  INTLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1117 

present  situation,  the  black  working  class  is  much  more  advanced  than  the 
white — it  is  much  more  likely  that  the  leadership  of  a  truly  Marxist-Leninist 
organization  would  be  more  largely  a  Negro  leadership  than  a  white  leader- 
ship. If  you're  realistic  about  the  world  today,  you  begin  to  see  the  whites  as 
the  minority  in  the  world.  For  the  moment  you  need  a  black  led,  mass  anti  im- 
peralist  liberation  organization  in  Harlem  and  other  black  communities  of  some 
kind. 

MILT  ROSEN  :  And  what  would  its  demands  be? 

ALICE  JEROME  :  It  would  be  very  similar  to  demands  in  other  communities,  You 
would  be  against  police  brutality,  for  jobs,  for  anti-imperialist  Negro  leadership 
in  every  phase  of  life — that  would  be  in  education,  in  jobs,  in  unions.  That  would 
be  a  struggle  that  would  be  different  than  the  struggle  just  for  jobs  and  housing, 
and  against  police  brutality.  It  would  be  for  the  leadership  by  the  Negro  people 
of  their  unions,  and  of  these  struggles,  there  would  be  differences,  but  I  can't 
spell  them  out  now.  There  are  the  two  things — and  we  shouldn't  confuse  them. 
There  was  a  time  when  we  could  have  gone  along  with  and  participated  in  and 
helped  to  stimulate  a  much  more  wide  spread  uprising  on  the  lower  east  side, 
as  part  of  our  expression  of  support  and  solidarity  to  what  was  going  on  in  Har- 
lem, and  we  didn't  do  it,  and  we  very  consciously  didn't  do  it.  We  tried  to  evaluate 
our  position  in  the  community,  as  to  who  would  go  with  us  and  who  wouldn't, 
and  we  felt  that  the  main  support  for  the  antipolice  uprising  that  was  imminent 
on  3rd  street  where  we  were  having  our  street  meetings  were  not  the  Puerto  Rican 
people  of  that  community — we  knew  the  kids  very  well,  who  belong  to  a  couple 
of  gangs  on  the  east  side,  who  came  to  our  meeting  with  their  stickballs  bats 
and  everything,  really  ready  for  action — we  did  not  go  ahead.  We  said  to  them, 
we're  going  to  give  as  much  support  as  possible  to  Harlem,  but  we're  not  going 
to  make  it  a  provocation.  They  went  along  with  it.  We  can  analyze  this — did 
we  just  chicken  out?  Why  didn't  we  go  ahead  with  it — was  it  because  we  were 
just  scared,  because  we  weren't  ready  to  give  enough  support  to  Harlem?  Were 
we  correct  in  feeling  that  we  didn't  have  enough  of  the  community  with  us,  to 
really  carry  on  something  that  would  have  been  significant?  We  felt  that  we  could 
not  carry  an  action  through  with  any  kind  of  success  or  value,  other  than  a  blood 
bath. 

BILL  MCADOO  :  We  didn't  have  a  base  in  Harlem. 
MILT  ROSEN  :  But  you  didn't  start  the  riot. 

ALICE  JEROME :  If  the  opportunity  comes  again — the  big  question  is — how  to 
consolidate  whatever  gains  are  made.  We  also  had  many  people  coming  through 
our  doors.  Why  weren't  we  able  to  hold  on  to  more  of  this  mass  interest?  You 
(McAdoo)  said  we  didn't  seize  hold  of  these  people.  Well,  you  can't  seize  hold 
of  them  physically — the  problem  is  how  you  take  it  from  this  stage  to  the  con- 
solidated stage,  where  the  people  are  ready  to  go  ahead  with  the  day  to  day 
work.  There's  no  magic  answer — but  there  is  the  thing  Larry  said — of  working 
to  raise  the  political  level  while  we're  fighting  on  the  immediate  issues. 
MIKE  CRENOVICH  :  I  would  like  to  put  forward  the  need  of  presenting,  together 
w4th  the  new  concepts  and  ideas  put  forth,  some  of  the  analysis  that  brings  those 
conclusions.  For  example — on  the  question  of  skipping  the  bourgeois  democratic 
stage — we  have  to  establish  what  is  the  position  of  the  Negro  people  in  relation 
to  imperialism.  I  would  suppose  that  it  has  certain  characteristics  that  would 
make  skipping  that  stage  valid.  The  new  countries  of  Africa  and  Asia  are 
going  through  that  process,  of  trying  to  achieve  a  bourgeois  democratic  revolu- 
tion before  a  socialist  revolution.  On  the  other  hand,  in  Latin  America,  the  Com- 
munist Parties  have  put  forth  for  a  long  time,  that  the  bourgeois  democratic 
revolutions  were  never  completed,  and  therefore  the  first  task  was  completing  it. 
That  seems  to  be  a  fallacy  and  has  been  proven  wrong. 

There  cannot  be  any  meaningful  change  unless  it  goes  in  the  direction  of  a 
socialist  revolution — because  of  Cuba  and  because  of  the  objective  conditions 
in  all  countries.  Waiting  to  complete  a  bourgeois  democratic  revolution  in  Latin 
America  before  going  to  a  socialist  stage  is  incorrect,  and  leads  to  a  misdirecting 
of  the  struggle,  and  defeat,  instead  of  achieving  victory.  As  important  as  the 
rebellion  in  Harlem  was,  we  say  that  it's  a  new  stage,  but  we  haven't  analyzed 
it — the  character  it  had,  why  it  had  that  character,  why  it  was  repeated  in  other 
cities,  how  it  was  repeated.  On  the  point  Epton  raises  about  Negroes  in  the 
Democratic  party — it  would  be  important  to  find  out  how  many  people  actually 
vote,  how  many  don't.  It's  possible  that  the  i)eople  who  never  vote  would  respond 
to  a  political  party  of  a  different  nature.  In  relation  to  the  struggle  in  the 
south — how  many  people  are  involved  in  it;  who  are  they;  does  the  character 


1118    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

of  their  involvement  in  different  instances  reveal  something  as  to  their  mood 
as  to  engaging  in  a  struggle?  Unless  we  have  some  analysis  of  the  subjective 
factors,  it  is  difficult  to  come  to  some  conclusion  on  the  other  things  we've  been 
discussing. 

MILT  ROSEN :  I  want  to  make  a  little  sharper  the  position  I  took,  and  make 
it  a  little  more  way  out.  First  of  all,  there's  never  been  a  national  proletarian 
revolution,  in  the  sense  that  we  speak  of  bourgeois  national  revolutions.  There 
never  was,  there  never  will  be.  There  are  bourgeois  national  revolutions  in 
which  the  native  bourgeoisi  emerges,  challenges  the  outside  bourgeois,  and  in 
order  to  win  the  workers  to  their  side,  says  that  when  we  get  power,  we're  going 
to  pay  you  more — we're  going  to  give  you  a  little  bit  bigger  piece  of  the  pie 
than  the  other  guys  did,  and  therefore,  those  workers  support  the  native 
bourgeois.  I  don't  think  we  have  a  national  liberation  movement  in  the  U.S. 
today — although  I've  used  the  term  as  much  as  anybody  else.  I  think  it's  just  a 
mimicking  of  a  term  that's  developed  in  the  international  movement,  that  seems 
on  the  surface  appropos  to  the  situation  here.  We  used  it  because  we  don't 
have  a  clear  position  of  our  ovni  and  it  sounds  nice.  Superficially  you  can  make 
a  case  for  it,  but  I  don't  believe  it's  what  exists  here  at  all.  My  own  feeling  is 
that  what  exists  here  is  that  the  Negro  question  is  fundamentally  a  class  strug- 
gle, and  is  being  motored  in  many  respects  by  many  national  considerations. 
EPTON  :  Do  you  take  class  as  opposed  to  national'? 

ROSEN :  No,  not  as  opposed,  I  think  that  the  class  question  is  motored  by  the 
national  question.  We  have  a  very  peculiar  logic  in  our  argument.  For  example, 
we've  said,  many  time  that  the  Negro  petty  bourgeoisie  has  been  the  main 
force  for  the  integration  movement  in  the  south,  and  we  know  that  the  whites 
have  been  able  to  unite  with  that  movement,  the  ruling  class  has  been  able  to 
identify  with  it  (not  unite,  but  identify),  and  we've  said  time  and  time  again, 
that  in  the  main,  it  has  not  been  able  to  win  the  majority  of  the  workers,  or 
poor  farmers  to  their  movement  although  there  is  sympathy.  Because,  sure, 
they're  not  against  the  Negro  petty  bourgeoisie  winning  the  right  to  eat  at  a 
restaurant,  and  they  themselves,  if  they  had  the  money,  wouldn't  mind  eating 
at  that  restaurant,  and  besides  which  there  is  the  whole  question  of  degradation, 
and  that  concerns  every  Negro.  But  obviously  some  Negroes  are  prepared  to 
fight  for  it  far  harder  than  others — especially  the  petty-bourgeoisie.  If  that's 
the  case — (and  we've  said  this  about  the  North  as  well) — whether  its  social  in- 
tegration or  whatever — we've  proven  to  ourselves  that  it  isn't  a  question  of 
integration,  although  any  Negro  who  want  to  send  his  kid  to  an  integrated 
school,  should  have  the  right,  but  we've  always  said  that  isn't  the  main  desire 
of  the  mass  of  Negro  workers.  If  these  aren't  the  main  desires — what  are  they? 
My  opinion  is  that  the  main  thing  that  concerns  the  Negro  workers  in  the  U.S. 
today  is  jobs.  That's  the  #1  issue. 

When  I  was  in  Birming'ham — ^we  evaluated  that  situation  from  other  mili- 
tants— like  for  example — Len  Holt  an  article  in  the  Guardian — he  said  very 
clearly — the  main  issue  among  the  masses  is  jobs,  although  the  masses  supported 
the  drive  for  limited  integration  and  compelled,  compelled,  remember?  the  integra- 
tion leadership  to  insert  the  question  of  jobs.  When  the  demonstrations  first 
started  there  it  wasn't  around  the  question  of  jobs.  That  question  came  into  the 
demands  later  on,  when  the  mass  of  the  Negroes  said  "Look,  what  are  we  break- 
ing our  ass  for?  We  don't  care — we  don't  care — we  have  no  work  here."  So  Mar- 
tin Luther  King  and  the  committee  said  they'd  negotiate  with  the  businessmen 
downtown,  and  we'll  try  to  get  you  some  jobs.  And  we  know  that  they  sold  out 
that  issue.  Now  we  all  agree  on  one  thing  it  seems  to  me— some  people  want  two 
parties — but  we  all  say  we  should  have  a  black  movement — based  on  black  work- 
ing class  strength.  Well,  that  would  be  the  demands  of  that  movement?  The  de- 
mands wouldn't  be  "national  liberation."  That's  baloney.  They  want  jobs,  better 
housing,  beter  schools,  and  yes,  a  lot  of  people  would  identify  with  supporting 
national  liberation  movements  in  other  countries,  because  they  don't  want  to  go 
and  fight  in  the  Congo,  etc.  Tliat's  not  national  liberation.  Every  one  of  these 
demands  are  either  of  an  international  class  character  refiecting  proletarian  inter- 
nationalism, or  reflect  their  own  class  demands.  So  how  do  you  make  that  into 
a  national  liberation  movement?  It's  nothing  of  the  kind.  I'll  tell  you  another 
thing — when  Castro  came  to  Harlem — ^a  white  man — ^he  put  those  phony  national- 
ist leaders  off  the  comer.  Tens  of  thousands  of  Negroes  came  and  stood  out  in 
front  of  the  Hotel  Theresa,  because  here  was  a  guy  who  was  the  head  of  a  revolu- 
tionary movement. 


SUBVERSIVE  rNTLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1119 

MCADOO :  You're  wrong.  He  was  a  black  man.  Just  like  there  are  650  million 
blacks  in  China. 

MILT  ROSEN  :  They  viewed  him  as  one  of  their  own,  because  here  was  a  guy  who 
led  his  people  and  defeated  the  very  same  bosses  they're  against,  and  they  hailed 
him  on  that  basis — not  because  he  was  a  white  man.  Otherwise,  why  were  they 
responding  to  him? 

MCADOO :  I'll  tell  you,  because  he's  a  black  man  in  Harlem. 
ROSEN :  That  may  be— «o  by  that  same  logic — I'll  be  a  black  man  in  Harlem. 
That's  exactly  the  point  I'm  making.  Because  the  two  basic  issues  that  emerge 
are  internationalism  with  China,  with  Cuba,  with  Africa,  with  Latin  America 
and  with  the  Soviet  Union,  if  she  pursued  a  class  program.  And  the  main  demands 
of  the  people  today  are  for  class  questions,  and  for  class  demands  and  that's 
why  I  say  it's  fundamentally  a  class  question.  Yes,  if  you  had  a  black  bour- 
geoisie— ^that  had  a  conference  and  said  "We  are  going  to  start  a  movement  to 
expropriate  the  land  and  industry  in  the  black  belt  in  the  south.  And  when  we 
take  it  over,  we're  going  to  hire  black  workers,  pay  them  higher  wages  than  they 
get  now,  and  if  need  be,  we're  going  to  fight  for  tiis,  and  we  call  upon  all  black 
workers  to  support  this,  I  say  yeah,  that's  a  national  liberation  movement^ — That 
a  black  bourgeoisie,  with  a  program,  it's  drawing  the  workers  into  alliance  with 
them,  on  the  basis  of  concessions  to  these  workers,  and  the  enemy  is  the  white 
ruling  class,  and  the  white  workers  if  they  support  the  white  ruling  class.  You  do 
not  have  that  in  this  country,  and  that's  why  this  stage  is  going  to  be  skipped, 
whether  we  like  it  or  not.  Because,  if  you  go  to  the  Negro  masses  today  with 
some  idea  of  nation,  national  liberation  movement,  I  don't  think  you're  going  to 
get  far.  Yes,  you  explain  what  racism  is— how  it's  used  to  exploit  people,  etc. 
But  the  demands  are  going  to  come  out  the  same.  Every  demand  that  was  written 
in  Harlem — that  was  successful — that  won  the  support  of  the  black  people  was 
essentially  class  demands  (and  they're  the  ones  you  wrote — Epton — and  you 
McAdoo — and  you,  and  you,  or  that  any  one  of  us  would  have  written.)  And 
that's  the  proof.  Your  policy  has  to  coincide  with  the  strategy  and  tactics.  Lenin 
and  Stalin  applied  their  analysis  of  the  national  question  to  the  Soviet  Union — 
and  they  developed  specific  strategy  and  tactics  in  terms  of  the  national  minorities 
that  exist  in  the  Soviet  Union. 

FRED :  I  think  this  is  the  key  point — for  or  against  it.  Morty,  your  remarks 
appearing  to  disagree  at  least  in  part  with  this  were  not  all  all  convincing.  You 
stated  the  difference  between  a  bourgeois  democratic  revolution  and  an  anti- 
imperialist  nationalist  revolution — I  don't  know  what  it  is.  If  a  national  revolu- 
tion is  different  from  a  socialist  revolution,  then  that's  a  key  difference.  I  don't  see 
this  other  difference.  The  specific  point  that  the  Negro  freedom  struggle  is  some- 
thing that  involves  other  classes,  well  that  doesn't  negate  the  point  that  Milt  is 
making.  Every  socialist  revolution  involves  other  classes,  has  involved  other 
classes  and  has  to  involve  other  classes.  Unless  you're  saying  it  involves  the  entire 
other  class.  Unless  you're  making  an  estimate  of  the  Negro  petty  bourgeoisie  that 
the  entire  Negro  petty  bourgeoisie  is  going  to  be  involved  in  this.  I  think  the  facts 
show  that  that's  not  the  case.  Large  sections  of  the  Negro  petty  bourgeoisie  are 
playing  an  anti-revolutionary  role.  That  doesn't  mean  entirely — section  of  it  will 
be  involved  in  this — certainly.  But  that  doe.sn't  negate  the  point  that  it  is  basically 
a  class  revolution,  and  that  this  stage  will  be  skipped.  All  I'm  saying  is  that 
haven't  proved  the  point — I  don't  say  that  the  point  is  settled.  That's  critical — 
that  means  that  really  the  development  of  organizations  based  on  a  working 
class  position,  taking  into  account  the  national  atmosphere  that  exists — that  they 
be  black  organizations.  It  means  the  development  particularly — in  addition  to 
that — of  socialist  agitation  by  black  leaders  in  the  black  community,  and  there 
can  be  a  class  group  which  is  not  a  socialist  group.  It  means  an  evaluation  of 
other  forces  in  the  commimity  based  on  this  criterion.  It  is  a  new  framework 
within  which  to  put  this.  There  are  a  number  of  question  that  have  to  be  raised, 
although  my  tendency  is  to  agree  with  it.  I  don't  think  that  this  means  that 
there  are  no  national  demands  to  be  included.  You  Mort?  criticized  this  because 
it  left  the  national  things  to  tactics.  That  (taking  Milt's  position)  doesn't  mean 
that  one  abandons  all  these  tactics  sensitivity  to  national  feelings.  This  brings  up 
the  question  that  Larry  raised — two  things :  one  that  we  need  more  socialist 
agitation,  which  I  think  is  valid  ;  but  at  the  same  time  he  was  saying  there  should 
be  no  intermediary  goals,  short  of  socialism.  That  means  when  you  were  in  that 
situation  in  Harlem,  when  nobody  else  was  doing  anything,  you  should  have 
said  "socialism  is  the  answer" — .  Unless  you  have  an  intermediary  goal,  you 
have  to — 

88-083  O — 68 — ^pt.  2 14 


1120    SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING 

LARRY :  You  don't  have  to  have  any  goal.  You  could  explain  what  the  hell  is 
happening.  FRED :  That's  my  point.  Larry  is  saying,  you  don't  have  to  have 
any  goal,  you  just  have  to  explain  what  is  happening.  I  disagree  with  that.  As 
far  as  the  question  of  two  parties  is  concerned,  I  agree  with  Bill  McAdoo — in 
that  the  question  can't  be  simply  brushed  aside  with  the  sense  that  "well,  if 
you're  truly  a  Marxist-Leninist  party,  everybody  will  be  equal".  That  true 
theoretically.  Reality  is  that  you're  a  Marxist-Leninist  party  within  the  atmos- 
phere of  a  decadent  white  suprenicist,  racist  society,  which  affects  us  all.  Even 
within  that  party  there  are  tendencies.  Just  as  there  are  nationalist  tendencies 
which  may  be  unhealthy  to  some  extent  among  black  Marxists-Leninists,  there 
are  certainly  chauvanist  tendencies  which  are  unhealthy  among  white  Marxists- 
Leninists.  It  doesn't  take  much  for  the  word  to  get  around.  These  tendencies  play 
off  on  each  other  within  a  movement.  I  don't  agree  with  Selma's  conclusion  that 
therefore,  you  need  two  parties,  because  I  don't  think  its  been  demonstrated. 
But  I  think  we  should  not  confuse  what  is  a  healthy  nation  among  the  masses 
of  people  with  what  should  be  a  correct  Marxist-Leninist  position.  We  should 
not  say  that  something  is  our  own  because  it  is  black,  in  the  sense  that  we  really 
think  it  is  our  own. 

EDDIE  LEMANSKY :  The  way  in  which  this  issue  of  the  Negro  question 
being  a  class  question  has  been  raised — it's  been  raised  with  the  proviso  that 
"of  course  we  have  to  take  account  of  the  feelings  of  nationalism  of  the  Negro 
people"  which  I  think  is  true,  but  what  hasn't  been  raised  is  the  fact  that  while 
Negroes  workers  are  members  of  the  same  class  as  white  workers,  there  are  ob- 
jective differences  in  their  interests  and  needs,  not  just  differences  of  feeling, 
or  differences  of  identity.  Just  as  there  are  real  differences,  for  example, 
between  the  needs  of  Cuban  workers  and  American  workers.  The  American 
ruling  class  in  fact,  plays  on  that,  by  speaking  to  white  workers  and  saying 
"These  Negroes  are  coming  to  take  your  jobs."  They  can  say  that  in  the  cirl- 
cumstance  of  a  lack  of  enough  jobs  for  everyone.  Now,  if  you're  going  to  make 
sure  that  our  party  maintains  a  real  fight  for  the  interests  of  the  Negro  people,  we 
have  to  be  very  clear  that  there  are  going  to  be  circumstances  in  which,  because  of 
the  super-exploitation  of  Negroes,  they're  going  to  be  put  in  the  position  where 
they're  going  to  have  to  fight  with  white  workers.  We  have  to  be  certain  that  we 
support  those  demands.  Too  many  times  the  issue  of  a  common  class  has  been 
raised  as  a  method  of  holding  Negroes  back.  This  is  precisely  the  feeling  that 
Selma  was  speaking  to,  and  Bill.  Unless  we're  clear  where  we  are  on  these  things — 
then  the  only  guarantee  will  become  separate  organizations.  If  we're  serious 
about  our  revolutionary  perspective,  then  we're  going  to  be  serious  on  those 
issues  where  there  very  well  might  be  a  conflict  between  white  and  black  workers. 
UNA :  You  (Milt)  made  the  point  that  there  is  no  such  thing  as  a  national 
liberation  movement.  Well,  what  do  you  call  this  very  strong  anti-white  senti- 
ment in  the  Negro  community?  Is  this  not  the  thing  that  we've  been  throwing 
around  as  the  healthy  national  liberation  feeling? 

MILT :  I  don't  think  that's  a  national  liberation  movement.  Take  for  exam- 
ple— the  rebellions  all  over  the  country.  Generally  what  we've  said  is  that  the 
people  were  rebelling  against  their  conditions.  The  object  of  their  rebellion 
was  in  the  immediate  sense  the  white  police,  who  represented  the  white  bosses, 
and  anybody  who  was  white.  I  also  say  that  the  national  feeling — of  common 
oppression,  etc. — which  is  propelling  the  black  workers — because  those  were 
black  workers  in  the  main,  those  weren't  the  black  petty  bourgeoisie-  out  in  the 
street.  This  is  what's  propelling  them  towards  fighting  for  very  specific  demands. 
So  therefore,  this  nationalism  is  good  because  it  helps  and  spurs  the  people  to 
fight  for  specific  programmatic  reforms,  which  include  of  course  the  whole 
question  of  certain  democratic  freedoms.  This  doesn't  necessarily  mean  that 
it's  a  national  liberation  movement.  I  don't  want  to  argue  the  semantics  of  it 
though.  It  has  many  different  features  from  what  we've  called  national  liber- 
ation movements  in  the  past. 
MCADOO  :  That  doesn't  mean  it  shouldn't  exist. 

MILT:  Absolutely,  MCADOO:  Or  that  it  should  not  exist  MILT:  It's  going 
to  exist.  We  want  it,  we  encourage  it,  we  build  organizations  on  it.  But  the 
main  demands  of  this  movement  are  going  to  be  around  class  questions. 
EPTON:  Are  you  saying  that  the  demands  and  the  work  going  on,  are  class 
demands  and  the  actions  are  around  class  demands,  but  it's  within  the  frame- 
work of  a  national  movement. 

MILT:  No.  I  would  say,  that's  based  on  the  radical  oppression  of  the  Negro 
people  by  the  white  ruling  class.  But  this  is  not  a  national  liberation  movement 


SUBVERSIVE  INFLUENCES  IN  RIOTS,  LOOTING,  AND  BURNING    1121 

iin  the  sense  that  we  have  spoken  of  one.  It  is  not  a  movement  for  the  black 
bourgeoisie  to  win  economic  control  of  sections  of  the  country  which  is  what  a 
national  liberation  movement  has  historically  been. 

EPTON:  The  class  question  in  relationship  to  the  national  question.  How  do 
you  put  the  two  together. 

MILT:  I  put  the  two  together  because  they —  EPTON:  Are  they  together? 
MILT:  Yes,  particularly  related,  but  the  main  thing  that  comes  out  of  it  is  a 
development  of  the  class  status  of  the  people,  precisely  because  they're  workers. 
It  isn't  the  black  bourgeoisie  out  in  the  streets  fighting  for  their  demands.  It's 
black  workers  fighting  for  their  demands  as  black  workers.  They're  not  fighting 
for  the  right  of  a  black  boss  to  open  up  a  steel  mill.  They're  not  fighting  for  the 
right  of  black  bosses  even  to  get  a  piece  of  the  steel  mill.  Now,  based  on  the 
strength  that  black  workers  can  develop,  and  the  development  of  a  real  move- 
ment, they  will  compel  sections  of  the  black  petty  bourgeoisie  to  come  to  their 
side,  just  as  in  other  revolutions — ^the  workers  have  been  able  to  comi)el  (by 
their  own  strength)  the  intelligencia,  the  i)etty  bourgeoisie  (sections  of),  etc.  to 
come  to  their  side.  For  example — the  Chinese  say  quite  categorically  that  the 
Chinese  petty  bourgeoisie  financed  the  Chinese  revolution — ^but  the  Chinese 
petty  bourgeoisie  wouldn't  have  if  the  peasants  and  the  working  class  weren't 
moving  in  a  revolutionary  direction. 

MORTT :  In  your  opinion,  a  natonal  liberation  movement  can  only  be  led  by 
the  bourgeoisie? 
MILT  :  In  the  main,  that's  right. 

MORTY:  Well,  who  led  the  Cuban  revolution?  Didn't  the  working  class  play  a 
decisive  role. 
CHORUS:  No, no. 
FRED :  A  decisive  role — ^but  that  doesn't  mean  that  they  lead  it. 


INDEX 

INDIVIDUALS 

A 

Page 

Adifumi,  Oserjeran 1074 

Albizu  Campos  (Pedro) 954,  976,  985 

Anderson,  Vivian 932-935,  944,  1002,  1003,  1025,  1026 

Anderson,  William 1024 

Anekwe,  Simon 1072 

Apter,  Robert 944 

Armand,  Lisa.  {See  Warren,  Susan  (Sue).) 

B 

Bailey,  Lawrence  R 1072 

Banks,  Gilbert 1074 

Bamett,  Nathaniel 931,  934,  944,  1030 

Bamett,  Ross 936,  946 

Barry,  Marion 1079 

Bassett,  T.  R 1049 

Begun,  Isadore 930,  931,  933,  934 

Bell,  Edward  U 987 

Boutelle,  Paul 1034,  1035,  1038,  1039,  1073-1075 

Bowe,  Walter 926,  971,  1038,  1040-1043,  1046,  1047 

Braden,  Anne  (Mrs.  Carl  Braden) 1094 

Braden,  Carl 1094 

Branch,  Stanley 1079 

Brazier,  Benny 941,  983 

Brazier,  Billie 956 

Brazier,  Ralph 941,  957,  986 

Brown,  H.  Rap 1079,  1080 

Byrne,  Raymond  J 1060 

C 

CaUender,  Herbert  (Herb) 926,  1032,  1034 

Campbell,  Leslie 1074 

Campos,  (Pedro)  Albizu.  {See  Albizu  Campos,  (Pedro) .) 

Carmichael,  Stokely 979,  1054 

Carnegie,  Amos 1072 

Carroll,  Patrick  J 1060 

Castro  (Fidel) 926,  1118,  1119 

Charles  37X.  {See  Morris,  Charles.) 

Chestnut,  Otis 932,  933,  935,  944,  948,  987 

Clemente,  Genoveva 949 

Cohn,  Roy 996 

Collier,  Robert 926,  971,  1034,  1037-1047,  1073 

Conner  (Eugene)  "BuU" 984 

Conroy,  Joseph  M 1071,  1072 

Copeland,  Vincent 1095 

Crenovich,  Michael  (Mike) 931,  934,  936,  944,  1027-1029,  1117 

Cruse,  Harold 1106 

D 

Davidow,  Mike 1049 

Davis,  Benjamin  J 980 

Davis,  Edward  Mills 1049 

Dejesus,  Felipe 1059 

Dickerson,  Lloyd 990 

1 


li  INDEX 

Page 

Dones,  Manuel 1058 

Douglas,  David 932-935,938,944,984,  1002,  1022-1024 

Dubinsky  (David) 975 

Duclos,  Michelle 926,  1039,  1041-1043 

Dufflar 1058 

Duncan,  Donald 1078 

E 

Edmundson,  Arlis 982 

Epton,  Beryl  (Mrs.  William  Epton) 932-934 

Epton,  William 923, 

924,  930-947,  949,  950,  954,  960,  967-971,  983-986,  988,  991, 
992,  995,  996,  1002,  1003,  1022,  1024,  1026,  1027,  1029,  1047, 
1050,  1073-1075,  1084,  1085,  1093,  1094,  1099,1100,  1102,  1104, 
1113,  1114,  1117,  1119-1121 

Erby,  Nelson 1055 

Evers,  Medgar 999,  1056 

F 

Farmer,  James  (L.) 925,989,991,1049 

Ferguson,  Herman  B 1071-1073,  1075 

Figueroa,  Alejandro 976 

Foreman,  James 927,  1080,  1083 

Fox,  Robert  J 1060 

Frazier,  Freddie 960 

Friedman,  Morton 1072 

G 

Galamison,  Milton  J 937,  990 

Geismar,  Maxwell 1094 

Gellis,  Jeremy 944 

Gibson,  Paul,  Jr 1072 

Gilligan,  Thomas  R 937, 

940,  941,  949,  958,  961,  962,  965,  968,  969,  984,  987,  990,  992,  994, 

996,   997,  999,   1006,   1009,   1010-1019,   1029,   1049,   1056,   1096 

Ginsberg,  Mitchell  I 1044 

Gordon,  Jeff 1061,  1062 

Gray,  Jesse  Willard 925, 

988-992,    996,    997,    1001,   1003,   1048,   1049,   1073,   1074,   1078, 

1079,  1091,  1095-1097,  1101 

Green,  Maxine 1078,  1079 

Griffin,  Junius 950,  951 

Guevara,  Ernesto  "Che" 926,  1037 

H 

Hallinan,  Vincent 1094 

Hamm.  Mary  (Mrs.  Daniel  Hamm) 953,954,  1095 

Hart,  Abraham 1024 

Hart,  Adolph  W 923, 

924,  929-963   (testimony),  964,  969,  971,  983-985,   1003,   1045, 

1054,  1064,  1077,  1091 

Haughton,  James  (Jim) 1074,  1084,  1085 

Haywood,  Harry 1099,  1101  S  1102 

Heckscher,  August 1044 

Heneghan,  Martin  J 1006 

Herman,  Alexander 1006 

HQdebrand,  Richard 990,  1049 

Hirch,  Roland  A 987 

Hitler  (Adolf) _     .         _  _  _     954,1076 

Hogan,  Frank  S 987,  996,  1020-1030 

Holt,  Len 1118 

Howlette,  Edward,  Jr 1078 

« Appears  as  "Heywood." 


INDEX  ill 

J  r»s» 

Jack,  Hulan 990 

Jackson,  Blyden 1032,  1033 

Jackson,  James  (E.) 1052 

Jackson,  Richard 987 

Jackson,  Wharlest 1056 

Javits  (Jacob  K.) 1090 

Jefferson,  Thomas 986 

Jerome,  Alice 934,  966,  975,  1102,  1107,  1116,  1117 

Jerome,  Carl 987 

Jerome,  Fred 93 1, 

932,  934-937,  966,  972-976,  981,  983,  985-988,  1106,  1107,  1113, 

1115,  1119-1121 

Jerome,  Victor  Jeremy 974,  975 

Johnson,  Linda  Bird 987 

Johnson,  Lyndon  (B.) 1085 

Jones  i^^Adrian  H.) 1005 

Jones,  LeRoi 1073,  1074,  1094 

K 

Karp,  Susan  (Sue) 944,  1094 

Kellum,  Leroy 1072 

Kennedy,  John  F 980-982,  1063,  1076 

Kennedy,  Robert  (F.) 1057 

Kenner,  Martin 987 

Kenyatta,  Charles.  (See  Morris,  Charles.) 

Kenyatta,  Jomo 1081 

King,  Martin  Luther 949,  1084,  1110,  1118 

Klunder 999 

Komo,  David 987 

Korf 974 

Korff,  George 987 

Kross,  Anna 951 

L 

Lacy,  Stanhope,  Jr 1072 

Landry,  Lawrence 1079 

Larkin 987 

Laub,  Levi 934,  935,  944 

Lavin,  John 1050 

Lawson 1101,  1113 

Leary,  Howard  R 1060 

Lemansky,  Eddie 1 120 

Lenin  (V.L) 1106 

Liebowitz,  Sheldon 1054,  1055,  1077 

Linder,  Walter  (Wally') 976,  1105,  1106 

Lindsay  (John) 1044,  1058 

Luce,  Phillip  Abbott 924,  936,  964,  967,  968,  970-972,  978,  992,  997,  1052 

Lynch 999 

Lynn,  Conrad 939,  940,  1001,  1095 

M 

Mackell,  Thomas 1090 

Madison,  James 986 

Malcolm  X 934,  935,  937,  946,  947,  1035,  1054,  1056,  1076,  1101,  1110,  1113 

Mallory,  Mae 1074,  1075 

Mao  Tse-tung 1067,  1068,  1084,  1100 

Marks,  Charles  T 1096 

Martin,  Key 1001,  1095 

Martinez,  Elsa 976 

Martinot,  Stefan  (Steve) 934-936,944,987 

McAdoo,  WiUiam 923,  939,  941,  944,  965,  966,  997,  1002, 

1020-1022,  1094,  1100,  1103-1109,  1112-1115,  1117,  1119,  1120 

McCarthy  (Joseph) 996 

McCray,  Charles 1073,  1074 

McKissick,  Floyd 1074 


Iv  INDEX 

Page 

McLucas,  Leroy 1094 

McNamara,  Francis  J 964-978  (statement) 

MehafFey,  Robert  H 1005 

Meredith,  James 1057 

Micheaux,  Lewis 1074 

Moore,  William 986 

Montero,  Mrs.  Carmen  Sierra 957,986 

Morales,  Camacho 987 

Morray,  J.  P 1094 

Morris,  Charles  (also  known  as  Charles  Kenyatta  and  Charles  37X) 927, 

1081,  1084-1086,  1089,  1091,  1097 

Muhammad,  Elijah 937,  1101 

Mulzac,  Una 1106,  1113,  1120 

Murphy,  Michael  J 957,  973, 

975,   984,   985,   987,  990,  992,  994,  996-1000,  1022,   1049,   1096 

N 

Nelson,  Truman 1094,  1103 

Newman,  Pete  J 1072 

Nkrumah  (Kwame) 1076 

O 

O'Brien,  Michale 986 

Overton 1113 

P 

Phelps,  Larry 1107,  1115,  1119,  1120 

PhiUips 1002,  1020-1023,  1025,  1026-1029 

PoweU,  Adam  Clayton 1049,  1056,  1057 

Powell,  James 958, 

974,  979,  984,  987,  996,  998,  999,  1005,  1006,  1008-1018,  1049, 

1055,  1056 

Q 

Queen  Mother 1074 

R 

Randolph 1102,  1114 

Resta,  Vincent  A 1060 

Rivera,  John 984 

Roberts,  Lloyd 987 

Robertson,  James 1001,  1095 

Robinson,  Isaiah 1049 

Robinson,  James  E 1072 

Rockefeller  (Nelson  A.) 980-982 

Rodriguez,  Francisco,  Jr 957,986 

Rodriguez,  Renaldo 1058 

Rodriguez,  Sandra 1095 

Rodriguez,  Victor 957,  982,  986 

Rogers,  J.  A 1035 

Romerstein,  Herbert ^..      924, 

925,  927,  978-1030  (testimony),  1048-1097  (testimony) 

Rosen,  Jake__ 936,  946,  1108 

Rosen,  MUton  (MUt) 934,936,937,988, 

997,  1001,  1050,  1095,  1106,  1109,  1112-1115,  1117,  1120,  1121 

Rustin,  Bayard 1049 

Rutledge,  Richard  B 1072 

S 

Sanjurjo,  Eric 1058 

Saunier,  Michelle 1039-1041 

Sayyed,  Khaleel 926,  1038,  1040-1043,  1046,  1047 

Scheer,  Mort  (Mortimer) 1102-1105,  1107,  1110,  1115,  1119,  1121 

Schleifer,  Marc 1094 

Screvane,  Paul 975,  996 

Shapiro  (Fred  C.) 989 

Shapiro,  Mark 976,  987 

Sharpe,  W.  Eugene __ 1072 


INDEX  V 

Page 

Sierra,  Angel 1058 

Smith,  Louis 989 

Smith,  Theodore  K 1097 

Solero,  Maximino 957,  982,  986 

Sparks,  Selma 976,  987,  1105,  1114-1116,  1120 

Spaulding,  Asa  (T.) 1048 

Spellman,  A.  B 1094 

Spencer,  Herbert 1097 

Stafford,  Frank 986 

Stalin  (Josef) 1084,  1103,  1104,  1106,  1107,  1112 

Stanford,  Maxwell  (Max)  (MaxweU  Curtis,  Jr.) 1070,  1071,  1078-1080 

Sugar,  Margit 1095 

Sullivan  (James  W.) 989 

Sutton,  Percy 990,  1049 

Sweezy,  Paul 1094 

T 

Tandler,  Moe  L 1072 

Taus,  Roger 976,  978 

Theodore 1089 

Thomas,  Mildred 1095 

Till,  Emmett 999 

Truman  (Harry  S.) 976 

Tse-tung,  Mao.  {See  Mao  Tse-tung.) 

V 

Valentine,  John 926,  1032 

Velasquez,  Orlando 974,  987 

Velez,Ted 981,  1049,  1059 

W 

Wagner,  Robert  F 952,  957,  975,  980-982, 

987,  994,  996,  997,  999,  1032,  1034,  1049,  1112 

Warden,  Judith  Anne  (Judy) 924,  932,  964,  971,  972,  977,  978,  983,  987 

Warren,  Susan  (Sue)  (alias  Lisa  Armand) 933,  987 

Washington,  Booker  T 1101 

Wattley,  Pernella  (V.) 939 

Watts,  Daniel  H.  (Dan) 998,  1001,  1095 

Weiner,  Judy 1095 

Welch,  McKinley 1078 

Westbrook,  William 957,  986 

Wheeler,  Tim 1058 

WUkins,  Roy 1071,  1075,  1078,  1080,  1084,  1092 

Williams,  Robert  Franklin 940, 

948,  969,  971,  1062-1065,  1067,  1068,  1070,  1071,  1075 

WUson,  Ronald 982 

Wood,  Raymond  (also  known  as  Woodall) 926, 

1031-1048  (testimony),  1061,  1073,  1075,  1077,  1091 
Woodall,  Raymond.  {See  Wood,  Raymond.) 

Y 

Young,  Harold 934,  938,  939,  1024 

Young,  John 1049 

Young,  Whitney  M.,  Jr 1047,  1048,  1071,  1075,  1078,  1080,  1084 

ORGANIZATIONS 

A 

ACT 1079 

American  Nazi  Party 1039,  1075,  1076 

B 

Bedf  ord-Stuy vesant  Rent  Strike  Committee 1096 

Black  Arts  Theater 927,  1073,  1075 

Black  Guards 1076 


Vl  INDEX 

Pag« 

Black  Liberation  Front 926,  971,  1037-1039,  1042,  1043,  1045-1047 

Black  Militia 1037 

Northern  Area 1038 

Black  Muslims 1054 

Black  Panther  Party 1078 

Black  People's  Parliament 1074 

Black  United  Action  Front 1074,  1084 

Brooklyn  Civil  Rights  Defense  Committee 1001,  1095 

Brooklyn  CoUege,  New  York 1061,  1062 


CCOH,  (See  Community  Council  on  Housing.) 

CERGE.  (See  Committee  to  Defend  Resistance  to  Ghetto  Life.) 

COBRA.  (See  Committee  on  Black  Revolutionary  Action.) 

COP  (Children  of  Politicians).  (See  Political  Association  of  Youth  (PAY).) 

CORE.  (See  Congress  of  Racial  Equality.) 

CPUSA.  {See  Communist  Party  of  the  United  States  of  America.) 

Children  of  PoUticians  (COP).  (See  Political  Association  of  Youth  (PAY).) 

Columbia  University  (New  York  City) 935,  948 

Committee  for  a  Tompkins  Square  Community  Center 1044 

Committee  for  Peace  Organization 1001,  1095 

Committee  on  Black  Revolutionary  Action  (COBRA)  (see  also  Progressive 

Labor  Movement) 967,  1116 

Committee   to   Defend   Resistance   to   Ghetto   Life    (CERGE)    (see   also 

Progressive  Labor  Movement) 967,  1091,  1094 

Committee  to  Save  Negro  Lives  in  Foreign  and  Domestic  Battlefields.   1088,  1090 

Communist  Party,  China 931 

Communist  Party  of  the  United  States  of  America  (CPUSA) 924, 

925,  930,  933,  974,  979,  1032,  1033,  1048,  1050,  1052,  1110,  1114 
National  Structure: 

National  Commissions: 

Education  Commission 1050 

Organization  Commission 1050 

States  and  Territories: 

New  York  State 1051 

New  York  City  Area: 

Bronx  County 930 

New  York  County  (Manhattan): 

County  Committee 933 

Community  CouncU  on  Housing  (CCOH)_..  988,  990,  992,  993,  1078,  1091,  1096 
Congress  of  Racial  Equality  (CORE)..  925,  988,  991,  996,  1003,  1004,  1034,  1037 

Bronx  chapter 926,  1032,  1034 

East  River  chapter 1032 

Long  Island  chapter 1072 

D 
Democratic  Party 1100,  1117 

East  Harlem  Tenants  Council '---       981 

F 

FLN — Algeria.  (See  National  Liberation  Front,  Algeria.) 

Faculty  of  Social  Science,  The 933 

Fair  Play  for  Cuba  Committee . 1064 

Foreign  Languages  Publishing  House  (Moscow)  (now  Progress  Publishers 

(Moscow)) 1052 

Free  School  of  New  York 933 

Freedom  Now  Party 926,  1034-1036,  1038 

French  Liberation  forces 926,  1038 

French  Liberation  Movement  (see  also  French  Liberation  forces) 1042 

Friends  of  the  Sixteen  Accused 1079 


INDEX  Vii 

G 

Page 

Garment  Workers'  Union,  International  Ladies',  AFL-CIO  (ILGWU)___       975 

H 

HDC.  (See  Harlem  Defense  Council.) 
HSC.  {See  Harlem  Solidarity  Committee.) 

Harlem  Backstreet  Youth 1079 

Harlem  Defense  Council  (HDC)  {see  also  Progressive  Labor  Movement)..  923, 
938,  940,  941,  947,  955,  960-962,  965-967,  969,  970,  974,  985,  988, 
991,  993,  995-997,  1029,  1052,  1053,  1055,  1091,  1093,  1094, 1096, 
1111 

Harlem  Parents  Committee 997,  999,  1049 

Harlem  Solidarity  Committee  (HSC) 997,  998,  1001,  1091,  1095 

Housing  Action  Team 1079 

Hsin  Hua.  (See  New  China  News  Agency.) 


ILA.  {See  Longshoremen's  Association,  International,  AFL-CIO.) 
ILGWU.  {See  Garment  Workers'  Union,  International  Ladies',  AFL-CIO.) 

International  Union  of  Students  (lUS) 1080,  1083 

Integrated  Workers  Club.  (See  Progressive  Labor  Movement,  Lower  East 
Side  Club.) 

J 

Jamaica  Rifle  and  Pistol  Club,  Inc 1074,  1078 

Jefiferson  School  of  Social  Science 933 

John  Birch  Society 1075,  1076 

K 
Ku  Klux  Klan 1076 


Longshoremen's  Association,  International,  AFL-CIO  (ILA) 97  5 

Lower  East  Side  Rent  Strike  Committee 1096 

M 

Maccabees 936,  9 37 

Mau  Mau  Society 927,  1081,  1085,  1086,  1088,  1089,  1091,   1097 

May  2nd  Movement  {see  also  Progressive  Labor  Movement) 935 

936,  964,  967,  971,  978 

MetropoUtan  Council  on  Housing 1096 

Minutemen 1075-1077 

Mothers'  Defense  Committee  {see  also  Progressive  Labor  Movement) 953, 

967,  968,  1091,  1095 
Movement  for  the  Independence  of  Puerto  Rico.   {See  Movimiento  Pro 

Independencia  de  Puerto  Rico.) 
Movimiento    Pro    Independencia    de    Puerto   Rico    (Movement   for    the 

Independence  of  Puerto  Rico) 997,  1000 

N 

NAACP.    {See  National   Association  for   the   Advancement   of   Colored 

People.) 
National  Association  for  the  Advancement  of  Colored  People  (NAACP)-.     1062 
Jamaica  Branch: 

Legal  Redress  Committee 1072 

Manhattan  chapter 1049 

National  Conference  for  New  Politics  (Chicago) 949 

National  Front  for  the  Liberation  of  South  Vietnam  (NFLSV)  (also  known 

as  National  Liberation  Front  of  South  Vietnam) 1080 

National  Liberation  Front  (FLN)  (Algeria) 1041 

National  Liberation  Front  of  South  Vietnam  (NLF).  (See  National  Front 
for  the  Liberation  of  South  Vietnam.) 

National  Urban  League,  Inc 1048 

New  China  News  Agency  (Hsin  Hua) 1063 


Vlii  INDEX 

Page 

New  York  City  Police  Department 1034,  1042,  1054,  1092 

New  York  Institute  For  Human  Development 1060 

O 

OEO.  (See  United  States  Government,  Office  of  Economic  Opportunity.) 
Organization  for  Afro- American  Unity 934 


PAY.  (See  Political  Association  of  Youth.) 

PLM.  (See  Progressive  Labor  Movement  (or  Party).) 

PLP.  (See  Progressive  Labor  Movement  (or  Party).) 

Panther  publications 1076 

Political  Association  of  Youth  (PAY)  (formerly  called  Children  of  Politi- 
cians (COP)) 987 

Progress  Publishers   (Moscow)    (formerly  Foreign  Languages  Publishing 

House  (Moscow)) 1052 

Progressive  Labor  Movement  (PLM)  (or  Party  (PLP)) 923-925, 

927,  928,  930-932,  934-941,  944-950,  964r-97l,  973,  975-977,  979, 
983-985,  988,  992,  996,  997,  1001-1003,  1005,  1047,  1048,  1050, 
1052,  1054,  1056,  1057,  1059,  1061,  1062,  1075,  1091-1095,  1099, 
1100,  1114,  1116 

Black  Liberation  Commission 1093 

Brooklyn  Progressive  Labor  Club 994 

Columbia  University  chapter 935 

East  Side  Club 949,  966,  967 

Harlem  branch  or  chapter 923,  930,  935,  945,  1056,  1057,  1093 

Harlem  Progressive  Labor  Club 923,  932,  958,  970,  972,  1052 

Lower  East  Side  Club  (official  name  Integrated  Workers  Club) 925, 

967   976  977   997 

National  Coordinating  Committee 964-966,  969,  970,  973,  976,  1099 

Newspaper  Committee 932 

West  Side  Progressive  Labor  Club 982 

Puerto  Rican  Nationalist  Party 976 

R 

RAM.  (See  Revolutionary  Action  Movement.) 

Revolutionary  Action  Movement  (RAM) 926,  927,  971,  1037, 

1061,  1062,  1064,  1070,  1071,  1073,  1075,  1076,   1080,  1084 


SNCC.  (See  Student  Nonviolent  Coordinating  Committee.) 

Socialist  Workers  Party 1034,  1036 

Spanish  Community  Action 1060 

Spartacist  Group  or  Committee 997,  1091 

Student  Committee  for  Travel  to  Cuba  (see  also  Progressive  Labor  Move- 
ment)         967 

Student  Nonviolent  Coordinating  Committee  (SNCC) _" 927, 

1079,  1080,  1083,  1109 
T 
Tri-Line  Offset  Co.  Inc 923,  931,  941,  965,  967,  976,  1095 

U 

Unemployed  Railroad  Workers  Council 976 

United  Community  Corporation  (Newark).  (See  entry  under  United  States 
Government,  Office  of  Economic  Opportunity.) 

United  Harlem  Tenants  and  Consumers  Organization 1050 

United  Nations 992,  993,  1042,  1081,  1083 

Human  Rights  Commission 991,993 

United  States  Government: 

Central  Intelligence  Agency  (CIA) 1054,  1056,  1076 

Office  of  Economic  Opportunity  (OEO) 1073,  1079 

United  Community  Corporation  (Newark) 1073 

Supreme  Court 1002,  1072 


INDEX  ix 

W  Page 

White  Citizens  Council 1076 

Workers  World  Party  (WWP): 

Youth  Against  War  and  Fascism  (YAWF)___971,  997,  998,  1001,  1003,  1095 

Y 

Youth  Against  War  and  Fascism   (YAWF).   (See  entry  imder  Workers 
World  Party.) 

PUBLICATIONS 

B 
Black  America 1070 

C 

Challenge  (newspaper) 923, 

924,  932,  937,  952,  954,  969,  972-977,  981,  983,  985,  1059 

Contact 1050 

Crusader,  The 940,  948,  1064,  1065,  1067 

D 
DaUy  Worker 933 

E 
Ergo 1001 

F 

Far  East  Reporter 933 

Far  East  Spotlight 933 

Free  Student 976,  978 

L 

Liberator 991,  998,  1001 

Lynching  Northern  Style,  Police  Brutality  (Benjamin  J.  Davis)  (booklet).       980 

N 
New  York  Times 950 

O 
One  Hundred  Eighteenth  Street  Block  Association  Weekly 932 

P 

Party  Affairs 1032 

Pre-Convention  Discussion  BuUetin  #  2 965,  966,  1099 

Progressive  Labor  ^magazine) 923,  931,  932,  974,  976 

R 
Race  Riots— New  York  1964  (Shapiro  and  Sullivan)  (book) 989 

S 

Spark  (newspaper) 976 

Spartacist 1001,  1095 

stormtrooper,  the 1039 

Studies  on  the  Left  (Harold  Cruse)  (book) 1106 

U 

U.S.  Negroes  in  Battle:  From  Little  Rock  to  Watts  (James  E,  Jackson) 

(book) 1052 

W 
Worker,  The 933,  1048 

o 


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